Subj : Slimmed down Debian To : Ky Moffet From : Barry Martin Date : Sat Jun 20 2020 19:39:00 Hi Ky! > > KM> > > KM> Wait, I don't have a backup?? > > That's what happens when you sit on a stool: nothing to lean against! > KM> These durn two-legged stools.... > I wonder if that's why it was so cheap?! KM> 30% off!! If a three-legged stool closer to one-third! > I had read about Conky and didn't like something: maybe it was too much > on the screen, not leaving enough room to work. KM> It's transparent, and configurable, but I just don't like having KM> numbers on the screen, because I have Obsessive Reading Disorder. Mine's closer to if I note something moving on the screen my attention is drawn to it. Makes it a little difficult to stay with the topic window. > KM> Actually know someone who used an AMD CPU (this was in the late > KM> K6-2 era) to heat the garage apartment -- in Seattle, so not deep > KM> cold but not year-round toasty either. > Sounds like a lot of hot air to me! There have been times when > the air has felt rather warm coming out of various coputers! KM> Yeah, was rather noticeable in the desert... not so much here in KM> South Siberia! In "South Siberia" the extra warmth would be welcomed, not so much in the desert (even if a dry heat!). > KM> This could be... which reminds me, ExplainingComputers has > KM> another RPi video today. He's a very pleasant chap and has a way > KM> of making stuff easily understood. > I'll take a look some time. One thing I hope he explains and reminds > frequently is with the RPI 4 to use the HDMI port nearest the power > connector -- the other port won't give sound if the first one is empty. > I'm not the first one to have had that simple problem. KM> Leave him a comment about it! Probably would do more 'as appropriate' as opposed to out of the blue. ....I'll have to find out why there are two HDMI ports. Handy for some usages, but multiple monitors doesn't seem to be super-popular even with 'regular'home use. Not uncommon, just doesn't seem to be common. > KM> Sound policy! > alsa or Pulseaudio?! KM> Whichever one doesn't crash! Ummm, both do with the cymbals sounds. ...Yeah: weak joke. > > bye-bye!) and used a manual copy routine to an external hard drive (USB > > 3.0) -- no problems. Warmed up some but wasn't to the dangerous level. > > No ZIPping going on? A little bit slower data transfer? (The backup used > > my Ethernet LAN to connect to the destination drive.) > KM> Hmm. Was something going through the USB port? If I want to see > KM> Bullet's southbridge chip hit 220F, all I need do is save a > KM> torrent directly to the USB external hard drive... I don't know > KM> if southbridge also controls onboard network ports but I'd guess > KM> that was the problem. Except more intense when it was the NIC > KM> being used, thus way more data than USB. > AFAIK nothing was using the USB port at the time the backup was being > made via Ethernet. (The original way when the CPU overheated.) USB > devices were connected just because they were connected during the day > but were not in active use. KM> No, I mean does the network chip also send data through the KM> southbridge? I'd guess it does, and that heated up the chip, and KM> the system. Oh. My guess is yes, though reading about Southbridge so do USB stuff. LIS my guess is the regular backup was using a lot more CPU cycles because creating a condensed file with numerous files zipped into the one storage file, whereas the USB backup was a simply copy: just move the data, not work on it too. KM> Which, come to think of it, might be why downloads heat up Bullet KM> a lot more than local file movement. (WinAmp runs permanently to KM> keep the #1 external drive from going to sleep... settings util KM> won't speak to it, and this was a doable workaround. Then again KM> that's just a read every 3-5 minutes, no writes.) Your turn to check! I'm sort of chuckling to myself on this end as I remebber the manual and I think even the promotional literature for my original computer, the DEC Rainbow 100, specifically stated which function was done by what CPU: video and memory by the first, floppy drives by the second, that type of thing. Very out inthe open. Now we have to dig down into hard-to-find manuals. > That was one of my original reasons for delays with installing the > CoolerMaster heatsink: if I was going to have to go through all the > bother of removing the motherboard to add the heatsink I figured I may > as well build a new system since the original one was misbehaving. Not > like I'm made of money, but sometimes if ripping something apart may as > well go all the way. Fortunately there was an access hole in the > chassis. KM> Nice when the holes are convenient! you'd think it'd be a KM> Generally Good Idea if only for better venting under the CPU, but KM> it's far from universal. Yes, though I took the lack of access as more for RFI shielding. (It doesn't have to be anywhere near right for it to make sense to me sometimes!) > LIS I'll be going back to Intel. As for fins on the AMD-approved > heatsink, is almost seemed like there were too many spaced too closely: > this place isn't dirty but dust would get caught in the fins and clog > them up, further reducing the limited cooling it had. I will admit I > haven't been inside since swapping in the new one. KM> In my observation, more fins too close is better than too few KM> fins far apart. Tho I don't know what's optimal; surely some KM> engineer has done the math. And some green-visored bookkeeper has done the math and taken away the efficiency for having more profit! > > back to Intel. Maybe daisychain together a few RPi 4's and go that way! > KM> RPis are sure cheap enough now. Oh, the ExplainingComputers guy > KM> has a whole series on single-board computers, RPis and others. > KM> Some are really cheap (ten bucks). > Have scanned through articles on the those -- interesting but sort of > staying away/staying with the RPi's as used to them and the spare parts > thinking: can physically swap the unit, or create the SD card on one and > put it in the other (well, need to be the same generation). KM> Not a bad choice... some other brands have interesting features KM> or add-ons, but the RPis seem to be most competent overall. I KM> don't have any SBCs so here it's all theoretical anyway! Hey! My "could be the truth/sounds good to me" finally gets a little validation! Quite sure there are other small/tiny board computers out there which are more efficient for some of the jobs I'm having the RPi do, as you indicated, Sometimes being more familiar with one brand/style is more efficient. The very inexpensive Raspberry Zero would probably be a better choice for a few projects around here, just means potentially more cases, power supplies, etc., to stock. KM> Some of the cheap used Thin Client units seem to be pretty good KM> and do much the same work, main advantage is compatible with KM> x86/x64 instead of only running ARM OSs. And some can be KM> considerably upgraded. Agree, though of course the usual advantages and disadvantages kick in. Thin client can be smaller, which me being a hare stuck on MythTV Frontends flgas with a restriction on video. Not much of a problem if the right one is integrated into the motherboard; potential problems if restricted to SFF format video cards. Could also have underpowered PSUs. All stuff to consider the pluses and minuses when purchasing. > KM> Oh, for that you just need two poles and a rope (mechanical > KM> winch). > I don't think I know any Polish people! KM> Well then, you'll just have to stay in that hole! "Lassie! Get Pa!" > > KM> https://www.chainsawjournal.com/firman-generators-reviews/ > > KM> I'd never even heard of these, but they start around $300. > > I never heard of them either -- will have to see what they offer and if > > sold and serviced locally. > KM> Now that last is the important part! > Yup! Things _will_ fail! KM> Speak of the devil, Costco has a Firman generator on sale right KM> now. Flex fuel (gasoline, natural gas, propane). Wonder if it will fit in the basement? > OK yes, that's making sense. Part of the problem with basement > installation here might be finding a place for the generator. Half of > the basement is finished, the other half what's supposed to be a > kitchenette, laundry, my Electronics Workbench Area. The water heater > and furnace is in there too. Presumeably they want some space around > the generator like they do for the furnace. KM> Shouldn't need much, given they pack 'em into cubbyholes in RVs. That's true. Probably non-flammable material lining the cubbyhole but true about the compactness. (Thinking of how the HVAC guys are usually impressed by the 'roominess' in the back of the furnace where the access panels are. Plus there's light! Old undercabinet fluorescent, but they're usually working by flashlight. [There's some storage back there.]) > KM> However, also no real reason they can't sit outdoors in their own > KM> little shelter, much as central air conditioners do. I'd consider > KM> a longer tailpipe to get fumes up away from the house, tho. > Why? Carbon monoxide doesn't smell! If the generator was placed in KM> Supposedly not, but actually it does have a sort of dirty-damp KM> scent. (Then again, I'm somewhere waaaaaaay over beyond KM> Supertaster, which is also Supersmeller...) Makes sense. Could be most people are unable to sense CO or you react to the CO and get that musty smell reaction. There have been times (rare) when I went sniffing as "something wasn't right". The CO Detector didn't trigger, but then it's one of those ones without the level display -- I'm going back to that type when this one expires. > OK: I'm confused. Is your information on Honda using B&S engines or my > information more current? Mine's also older, but not nearly 1982 old! KM> Probably yours, mine being from before electricity. OK. Old information is good to be aware of and check when purchasing. I don't mind saving money. > KM> I must have a dozen, if not more. But I don't bother removing > KM> them, and PCLOS, being a rolling release, gets updates more or > KM> less continuously. > That might be part of the reason why you have so many. KM> Likely so! new one a couple days ago. Along with updating just KM> about everything else. All new! All improved! Now back to the drawing board to fix those problems the fix of the old problems created!! KM> Actually, am having trouble finding something that agrees to KM> install on Fireball; Windows everything whines about the BIOS not KM> being compliant (it was a Win7 workstation, you ninny!) tho PCLOS KM> runs just fine... Not sure if this is of any help: https://www.linux.org/threads/i-cant-install-linux.12399/ More for Linux installation issues because of motherboard manufacturer issues but could give a clue to get around the Microsoft installation problem. > KM> Yep, if they've got any brains at all, they can figure out quite > KM> a lot. Treat training actively interferes with this, in training > KM> by selecting for a brainless reaction, and in breeding by > KM> selecting against brains. > I don't think I did too much training via treats with either dog. With > my collie I as too young, with my Lhasa Apso she was a little heavy (she > was adopted) so food was somewhat restricted. KM> So you were good whether you wanted to be or not. I odn't know how much food training I would have done should she have been of proper weight: treats are expensive, not something I'd carry around just for fun, and to me positive re-inforcement sometimes needs to be done on-the-fly and a "you did good" voicing and neck rub sort of thing might be all that's available. Sort of thinking simply going for a walk, no real need to bring along treats (sort of defeating the purpose!), going to cross the street and the dog sits in front of my path, preventing me from being squished by a car. > > Makes sense to use them to their talents. Around here it sort of would > KM> Yep... and one of 'em seemed happier with PCLOS so that's what > KM> it's got. The third makes do with whatever's left over. :D > I've heard just like with human children: first-born child gets treated > delicately and has everything, second child not nearly as much; third 0 > ha! (I'm and only brat, err, child.) KM> Actually it's starting to look like birth order is influential KM> not for different treatment, but because each child changes the KM> mother's immune response, so you get different gene expressions, KM> and therefore different behavior (that being mostly inherited), KM> which naturally elicits different responses from the parents. KM> (Similarly, repeat breedings in dogs are never the same quality, KM> and sometimes very different... well, here's an explanation. I'm in computer mode: thinking analog vs. digital duplication! KM> There may actually be truth in the old contention that a KM> crossbreeding forever ruins the dam.) May also affect the male's KM> future offspring, depending on the degree of exposure to the KM> female's immune factors (dogs get a lot via the 'tie') and which KM> sperm get advantaged or disadvantaged by it. Makes sense: the coupling activity is not just one direction. I would assume the reasoning behind the slight changes is to maintain a diversity in the line (not sure if 'lineage' is correct): Darwin type stuff: this option is good in this enviro ment but not so good in a slight variance, so excat duplication in offspring isn't a good idea. > It seems there's a reason for some of us to avoid certain brands. > Aren't Seagates used a lot in DVRs, etc.? Almost seems like a higher KM> Whichever currently offers the best deal to that OEM. Frex KM> Dell-branded HDs are usually WDs, but there are spates of KM> Seagates. Which makes sense: whoever can provide the best price for the specs. Or at least that's how manufacturers generally look at things, especially as most of their customers don't know what it is much less care. > failure rate would be bad for the bottom line -- replace, repair, put in > box as refurbished unit. Repeat. KM> So long as the unit gets out of warranty before it fails.... > KM> For comparison, WD told me their design lifespan is 40,000 hours > KM> (5 years). > And I've had some last a lot longer! KM> Yeah. To be fair, I have a Seagate with over 85,000 hours and KM> still perfect, but it's an anomaly... I have a whole bunch of WDs KM> that are WAY over 40,000 hours. (The oldest probably has 120k KM> hours on it.) LISB4, to me worth the little bit of difference in cost. Admittedly the cost does add up, so from the mass-production manufacturing viewpoint, unless they can pass that extra cost on to the next level buyer they're not going to be selling anything. KM> Side note: just got a stack of used laptop HDs for scratch drives KM> (they seem to wind up in permanent use and then I need a new KM> stack) and out of five, 3 had under 9k hours and a 4th had under KM> 470 hours! Might as well be brand new. :D (#5 had 32k hours, KM> which is a bit high, but few power cycles, and continuous use KM> doesn't make for much wear and tear.) "You dun gud!" > KM> Lego PCs :) > Maybe the next one I'll call 'Eggo'! (Le'go my Eggo. ...Wrong one!) KM> Hahaha -- that ad always makes me wonder about the relationship KM> between waffles and Legos :D Waffles generally don't have the outies so don't stack securely. > > We have a decorative pond in the back yard, submurged pump to > > a couple of items. One is the 'classic' statue of a boy straddling an > > urn and the water comes out the urn. Well it sort of looks like the kid > > is urinating (along with a case of elephantiasis), so naturally I call > > him "Pee Boy". > KM> Does he swim in the gene pool? :D > And pass that thing on?! KM> I hope not! Not even for -- uh, wrong conference! > KM> against the bottom of the vehicle. But I also prefer to sit > KM> higher and have big open wheel wells, so every time I need to put > KM> chains on I don't use up my entire supply of bad words. > Room to reach around the tire would be an advantage! They say there's a > way to back up (or go forward) a tiny bit to get the chain around the > tire -- uh, yeah, right! KM> If you have to do that, yer doin' it wrong or you've got no room KM> to work... best way is chains flat on the ground, drive about a KM> third of the way onto 'em, flap the long end over the tire, pull KM> up the short end and join 'em up. When I was doing it daily, got KM> to where I could chain up in (actually timed it) about 40 KM> seconds. On a truck with lots more room than the dually... where KM> there's that pesky second tire in the way... lordy, the words I KM> use... and I'm only doing the outside tire. (They make dually KM> chains but way more expensive and even more work.) Yes, if done frequently one gets into the habit and nuances of how far to pull ahead/behind. I would have been doing it probably infrequently, probably on a slight hill (parking lot at the apartment complex was on a slope) or on the street. > I'm not even sure studded tires are allowed any longer, much less chains > (in Iowa). KM> Usually allowed seasonally, tho not in every state. You wouldn't KM> be driving on bare pavement with chains anyway... wears 'em out KM> real fast. Plus makes the ride bumpy! ...I haven't heard the sound of chains on a vehicle around here in I don't know how long. > > KM> Ah, I was not imagining things. > > Contrary to assumptions we have! > KM> Our usual method being to just Make S#1t up. :D > As long as it sounds plausible! We just need to post to a website to > make it valid! KM> Is that how it works? I shall proceed to post everything I wish KM> to be true. Ky is a billionaire. Ky was just appointed dictator KM> for life. We're assuming 'billionaire' was referring to a currency and not ownership of a billion grass clippings! And if you're a benevolent dictator might not be all that bad. > KM> Geez yeah, I hate that. Cash's Core2Duo isn't quite enough for > KM> browser use (can you believe what it takes to decode what's > KM> essentially text and scripts?) and sites like Google Maps clog it > KM> up but good... CPU pegged at 100%. > I've seen some odd "why is it pegging?" events here. The moveing of the > screensaver for Wildcat! will pulse the usage to 100%, for some reason > so will typing these replies: before upgrading the heat sink there were > times I had to let the machine cool off!! KM> Screensaver is probably math-heavy. If it involves stuff that KM> crawls around and curves, definitely so. Windows Tubes KM> screensaver clogged up the last K6-2 450MHz I had in service, to KM> where it couldn't come back from the screensaver... that's why KM> it's no longer in service... Tubes ran fine on the P233MMX, KM> nominally only half as fast but in Real Life about 3x faster. KM> (And the P233 had a much older vidcard.) Wildcat!'s tubes/worms/whatever version was pegging my CPU - or at least one the old computer so would presume the same with any. Plus the motion was a bit distracting. > > And as sort of a tangent: appears the RPi 4 with 4 GB RAM will run > > MythTV v 30 just fine wirelessly. I think they separated the WiFi from > > the USB -- something got changed and removed a bottleneck. > KM> Ah yes, I remember hearing something about that. > I'll admit to some (a lot?!) of the details go in the eyeballs and out - > well, some place! Right now makes more sense for me to purchase the KM> In one eyeball and out the other! We'll use that one! > latest and greatest RPi (so RPi4 at 8 GB) because it is faster, the WiFi > transfers faster, etc. The 8GB I'm not married to -- 4 GB is probably > more than sufficient but for a few dollars more.... I can see where > businesses using RPi's probably need to keep the older Pi's just because > of the need to match what they have: no updating of software, etc. KM> Yeah, for another $25 I'd get the extra 4GB, assuming all else KM> equal. But I do like the idea of all those in the same generation KM> being cross-compatible -- simplifies rolling out a bunch of KM> systems, for sure. (Same reason business buys Dells by the KM> pallet. One Size Fits All.) And so far an inexpensive kit seems to be cheaper and easier than buying the wallwart power supply, sub-HDMI to HDMI cable, the case -- seems like another item or two but essentially those little necessary parts. > > I probably did try NTFS. May have even tried something 'oddball' like > > Amiga and then back to FAT32/NTFS/something compatible -- something non- > > Microsoft to 'overwrite' everything and then bring it back to something > > Microsoft-speak. > KM> Something Went Wrong!! :O > That sounds like a Windows error message! KM> Actually, that's the official MacOS error message!! ======================= = Whoops! = = We made a boo-boo! = ======================= > > Yes: stick with what's known! Another second of processing isn't going > > to make too much of a difference after the signal takes a couple of > > minutes to get there! > KM> It's a bit worse than that... one-way for Voyager is now 19 > KM> hours! > That sounds right: the minutes seemed too short but the hours and speed > of light thing together didn't sound right. KM> Yeah, I had to look it up myself! I was thinking months, but I KM> must be a lot further out in space. You're way out, man! > > KM> You can actually buy an i7 motherboard with ISA slots now, made > > KM> by DFI so it's probably pretty good. They sell 'em direct for > > KM> about $300. If Moonbase's board ever dies (P4 with ISA slots), > > KM> I'm lookin' at one of these. > > Makes sense! Sounds a bit odd as "what uses ISA now?" ...Hmm! I'll > KM> My DOS sound card!! > > have to check what I have in the basement: I have some old-old > > daughtercards. (Wrote myself a note -- will check eventually.) > KM> The Sound Blaster in Moonbase (DOOM machine) came with my > KM> original 486, bought in 1994! Still works. Still cranky about not > KM> being in the bottom slot (that pesky IRQ thing). > I'll have to see what I have and message you. Save your pop can money > as not going to fit in an envelope! KM> parts sitting in my driveway> So am I as I haven't looked for 'em yet! KM> I'm gonna have to swap Silver's 'new' (some random used) vidcard, KM> I think.. it's stable in Win64, but not in Win7. Went looking for KM> good and fanless and not too pricey (and at least 1GB RAM) this KM> morning, didn't find anything that gave me joy. Have another that KM> was stable with that Win7 setup when it was in Lightfoot, but VGA KM> out doesn't work and DVI doesn't allow changing screen KM> brightness/contrast. > Ha-ha - yes! Some times it's I know it's around here some place -- was > in a blue box..... KM> At least you color-coded your junk before you lost it! Pretty good for a guy who's somewhat colour-blind! Have switched most of my storage to Banker's Boxes ==> more consistent size easier to stack and store. Some will have boxes with the box, so looking for that blue box still is a clue. Have been labelling in a temporary/permanent manner: half a sheet of 8«"x11" paper, fold in half the long way and rip that in half, fold the piece in half and use a thicker felt tip pen to make a general list: "audio cables", though video cables are separated by VGA as got a ton and a small box (not a Banker's Box - yet!) for HDMI and DVI, plus the HDMI couplers. Detailing of the contents depends how assorted the contents is. > KM> Next oddest: portable printer -- just the roller and ink cart, > KM> nothing else. Rather messy, but worked. Gave it away as more > KM> trouble than it was worth. > I finally packed up my old LA50 (DEC dot matrix printer). Intention was > to use both the inkjet (now laser) and dot matrix -- that didn't really > happen. Finally decided to pack it up and use the space for the > shredder (slide-out drawer near carpet level) KM> I technically own a couple of inkjets but one whines that its KM> very expensive cart is out of date, and the other I can't find a KM> driver for (and HP was like, sucks to be you... hey, this was a KM> $900 business printer, and that's your attitude?) So I only use KM> the lasers (all but the color laser being freebies, and it was KM> cheap). Little HPLJ1020 on the desk (6000 pages and still on its KM> initial toner cart) for small jobs, heavy-duty 2100TN for big KM> jobs (have a matched pair of those, think I'm set for life). Sounds so! Back when I had an inkjet its cartridges would sometimes get a little schnarky -- was using refurbished -- some tricks on the web to pull the cartridge, power up the printer, let it whine about no cartridge installed, shut off, turn on again, let whine, turn off, install cartidge, turn on and hope. As for my laser printer I am on my second set (first set was the initial starter set). I've got another 1,000 pages to go before considering buying replacement magenta -- other two have about 1500+ pages and the black guessing 3,000. As for your HP driver, not a good attitude on their part and could cost them sales. > And I've kept other older stuff just because of having older computers: > why get rid of a daughtercard or whatever just to end up maybe needing > it later? KM> THIS!!! no matter what you deem too outdated to keep and KM> therefore throw away, THAT will be the next weird thing you need KM> and can't find!!! Yup! Years ago I repaired a pole lamp for one of the kids using a plastic part leftover from a toilet repair kit (!). > KM> Speaking of SSDs... if that system has a spare PCIe slot, you can > KM> get an NVME M.2 drive and a cheap adapter (they come in 1x, 4x, > I don't think I'd want to have a hot device too close to anything! Have > dedicated fan or two pointing at the drive! KM> When standing upright in a slot it doesn't seem to get too warm, KM> but if you have it flat on the mainboard... I'd definitely get an KM> NVME with a heatsink. (Someone did a comparison; it helps a lot.) Heatsink sounds like a very good idea, along with maybe a strip of asbestos insulation if flush against the motherboard. (Asbestos?! Yeah - from the odds and ends box we've been fill with "throw that junk out!" stuff for years!!) > This system and one downstairs do boot with a SSD drive, mainly because > I don't like waiting for a boot or reboot. I'm not impatient, just > sometimes not wanting to wait. Not quite comfortable with them yet so KM> Yeah, I'm not impatient, I just want it NOW! :D That's the spirit! > the data is on a 'traditional' platter hard drive. One of the Frontend > computers (mainly for watching recorded TV shows via MythTV) does have > SSD-only -- sort of an experiment, plus I don't think I had a small spare > HDD at decent specs -- the one I took out was old and slow. KM> OS on SSD, storage on platters -- makes sense to me, especially KM> at the cost differential. Also, jury is still out on SSDs as KM> long-term storage, while spinning rust is pretty much a known KM> level of hazard. OK, good; so still somewhat current on that thinking. > KM> Used to be if you started with a good motherboard, you could > KM> skimp on everything else til the price came down, then upgrade > KM> CPU, RAM, video, etc. But nowadays board and CPU tend to be a > KM> matched set with a limited set of upgrade options. > Yes, I will agree with that. I haven't done too much buying but when > looking to buy a motherboard for the now-extra CPU (had bought a 'kit', > wouldn't install the OS because of a bad BIOS setting and a faulty RAM > stick) there were limitied options of motherboards for that CPU, so > couldn't get the specs I wanted (and not have ones I didn't need). I > was thinking more the CPU socket needing to match, which does limit > which motherboard and CPU can go together. There's also the CPU > wattage to consider, probably other specs. ...Whether it's fireproof > for the NVME fry-drive.... KM> Woulda been nice to have low-wattage CPUs but you don't always KM> have that choice. Silver II and Fireball are both 130W TDP KM> but have noticed these newer Intels are quite good about KM> downthrottling themselves when full power isn't needed. Probably part of being green but overall good: if don't need full > I'm at 18.04. --- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462 * Origin: ILink: CFBBS | cfbbs.no-ip.com | 856-933-7096 (454:1/1) .