Subj : Re: Slimmed down Debian To : Barry Martin From : Ky Moffet Date : Thu Jun 18 2020 12:54:00 BARRY MARTIN wrote: > Hi Ky! > > > KM> > > KM> Wait, I don't have a backup?? > > That's what happens when you sit on a stool: nothing to lean against! > KM> These durn two-legged stools.... > I wonder if that's why it was so cheap?! 30% off!! > I had read about Conky and didn't like something: maybe it was too much > on the screen, not leaving enough room to work. It's transparent, and configurable, but I just don't like having numbers on the screen, because I have Obsessive Reading Disorder. > KM> Actually know someone who used an AMD CPU (this was in the late > KM> K6-2 era) to heat the garage apartment -- in Seattle, so not deep > KM> cold but not year-round toasty either. > > Sounds like a lot of hot air to me! There have been times when > the air has felt rather warm comoing out of various coputers! Yeah, was rather noticeable in the desert... not so much here in South Siberia! > KM> This could be... which reminds me, ExplainingComputers has > KM> another RPi video today. He's a very pleasant chap and has a way > KM> of making stuff easily understood. > > I'll take a look some time. One thing I hope he explains and reminds > frequently is with the RPI 4 to use the HDMI port nearest the power > connector -- the other port won't give sound if the first one is empty. > I'm not the first one to have had that simple problem. Leave him a comment about it! > KM> Sound policy! > > alsa or Pulseaudio?! Whichever one doesn't crash! > > bye-bye!) and used a manual copy routine to an external hard drive (USB > > 3.0) -- no problems. Warmed up some but wasn't to the dangerous level. > > No ZIPping going on? A little bit slower data transfer? (The backup used > > my Ethernet LAN to connect to the destination drive.) > KM> Hmm. Was something going through the USB port? If I want to see > KM> Bullet's southbridge chip hit 220F, all I need do is save a > KM> torrent directly to the USB external hard drive... I don't know > KM> if southbridge also controls onboard network ports but I'd guess > KM> that was the problem. Except more intense when it was the NIC > KM> being used, thus way more data than USB. > > AFAIK nothing was using the USB port at the time the backup was being > made via Ethernet. (The original way when the CPU overheated.) USB > devices were connected just because they were connected during the day > but were not in active use. No, I mean does the network chip also send data through the southbridge? I'd guess it does, and that heated up the chip, and the system. Which, come to think of it, might be why downloads heat up Bullet a lot more than local file movement. (WinAmp runs permanently to keep the #1 external drive from going to sleep... settings util won't speak to it, and this was a doable workaround. Then again that's just a read every 3-5 minutes, no writes.) > That was one of my original reasons for delays with installing the > CoolerMaster heatsink: if I was going to have to go through all the > bother of removing the motherboard to add the heatsink I figured I may > as well build a new system since the original one was misbehaving. Not > like I'm made of money, but sometimes if ripping something apart may as > well go all the way. Fortunately there was an access hole in the > chassis. Nice when the holes are convenient! you'd think it'd be a Generally Good Idea if only for better venting under the CPU, but it's far from universal. > LIS I'll be going back to Intel. As for fins on the AMD-approved > heatsink, is almost seemed like there were too many spaced too closely: > this place isn't dirty but dust would get caught in the fins and clog > them up, further reducing the limited cooling it had. I will admit I > haven't been inside since swapping in the new one. In my observation, more fins too close is better than too few fins far apart. Tho I don't know what's optimal; surely some engineer has done the math. > > back to Intel. Maybe daisychain together a few RPi 4's and go that way! > KM> RPis are sure cheap enough now. Oh, the ExplainingComputers guy > KM> has a whole series on single-board computers, RPis and others. > KM> Some are really cheap (ten bucks). > > Have scanned through articles on the those -- interesting but sort of > staying away/staying with the RPi's as used to them and the spare parts > thinking: can physically swap the unit, or create the SD card on one and > put it in the other (well, need to be the same generation). Not a bad choice... some other brands have interesting features or add-ons, but the RPis seem to be most competent overall. I don't have any SBCs so here it's all theoretical anyway! Some of the cheap used Thin Client units seem to be pretty good and do much the same work, main advantage is compatible with x86/x64 instead of only running ARM OSs. And some can be considerably upgraded. > KM> Oh, for that you just need two poles and a rope (mechanical > KM> winch). > > I don't think I know any Polish people! Well then, you'll just have to stay in that hole! > > KM> https://www.chainsawjournal.com/firman-generators-reviews/ > > KM> I'd never even heard of these, but they start around $300. > > I never heard of them either -- will have to see what they offer and if > > sold and serviced locally. > KM> Now that last is the important part! > Yup! Things _will_ fail! Speak of the devil, Costco has a Firman generator on sale right now. Flex fuel (gasoline, natural gas, propane). > OK yes, that's making sense. Part of the problem with basement > installation here might be finding a place for the generator. Half of > the basement is finished, the other half what's supposed to be a > kitchenette, laundry, my Electronics Workbench Area. The water heater > and furnace is in there too. Presumeably they want some space around > the generator like they do for the furnace. Shouldn't need much, given they pack 'em into cubbyholes in RVs. > KM> However, also no real reason they can't sit outdoors in their own > KM> little shelter, much as central air conditioners do. I'd consider > KM> a longer tailpipe to get fumes up away from the house, tho. > > Why? Carbon monoxide doesn't smell! If the generator was placed in Supposedly not, but actually it does have a sort of dirty-damp scent. (Then again, I'm somewhere waaaaaaay over beyond Supertaster, which is also Supersmeller...) > OK: I'm confused. Is your information on Honda using B&S engines or my > information more current? Mine's also older, but not nearly 1982 old! Probably yours, mine being from before electricity. > KM> I must have a dozen, if not more. But I don't bother removing > KM> them, and PCLOS, being a rolling release, gets updates more or > KM> less continuously. > > That might be part of the reason why you have so many. Likely so! new one a couple days ago. Along with updating just about everything else. > > > KM> Still debating what goes on Fireball, tho since chances are it > > > KM> eventually replaces Bullet (when/if it ever dies) ... XP64! > > > Don't you just love new operating systems?! > > KM> NO!! > > I do tend to follow the old BBSers' "rule": never buy a > > version ending in zero. > KM> Does that include Windows 10? :D > Only if in Base Ten. So, Windows 2 :) Actually, am having trouble finding something that agrees to install on Fireball; Windows everything whines about the BIOS not being compliant (it was a Win7 workstation, you ninny!) tho PCLOS runs just fine... > KM> Yep, if they've got any brains at all, they can figure out quite > KM> a lot. Treat training actively interferes with this, in training > KM> by selecting for a brainless reaction, and in breeding by > KM> selecting against brains. > I don't think I did too much training via treats with either dog. With > my collie I as too young, with my Lhasa Apso she was a little heavy (she > was adopted) so food was somewhat restricted. So you were good whether you wanted to be or not. > > Makes sense to use them to their talents. Around here it sort of would > KM> Yep... and one of 'em seemed happier with PCLOS so that's what > KM> it's got. The third makes do with whatever's left over. :D > I've heard just like with human children: first-born child gets treated > delicately and has everything, second child not nearly as much; third 0 > ha! (I'm and only brat, err, child.) Actually it's starting to look like birth order is influential not for different treatment, but because each child changes the mother's immune response, so you get different gene expressions, and therefore different behavior (that being mostly inherited), which naturally elicits different responses from the parents. (Similarly, repeat breedings in dogs are never the same quality, and sometimes very different... well, here's an explanation. There may actually be truth in the old contention that a crossbreeding forever ruins the dam.) May also affect the male's future offspring, depending on the degree of exposure to the female's immune factors (dogs get a lot via the 'tie') and which sperm get advantaged or disadvantaged by it. > It seems there's a reason for some of us to avoid certain brands. > Aren't Seagates used a lot in DVRs, etc.? Almost seems like a higher Whichever currently offers the best deal to that OEM. Frex Dell-branded HDs are usually WDs, but there are spates of Seagates. > failure rate would be bad for the bottom line -- replace, repair, put in > box as refurbished unit. Repeat. So long as the unit gets out of warranty before it fails.... > > KM> For comparison, WD told me their design lifespan is 40,000 hours > KM> (5 years). > > And I've had some last a lot longer! Yeah. To be fair, I have a Seagate with over 85,000 hours and still perfect, but it's an anomaly... I have a whole bunch of WDs that are WAY over 40,000 hours. (The oldest probably has 120k hours on it.) Side note: just got a stack of used laptop HDs for scratch drives (they seem to wind up in permanent use and then I need a new stack) and out of five, 3 had under 9k hours and a 4th had under 470 hours! Might as well be brand new. :D (#5 had 32k hours, which is a bit high, but few power cycles, and continuous use doesn't make for much wear and tear.) > KM> Lego PCs :) > Maybe the next one I'll call 'Eggo'! (Le'go my Eggo. ...Wrong one!) Hahaha -- that ad always makes me wonder about the relationship between waffles and Legos :D > > KM> You need to refill your pool. > > We have a decorative pond in the back yard, submurged pump to > > a couple of items. One is the 'classic' statue of a boy straddling an > > urn and the water comes out the urn. Well it sort of looks like the kid > > is urinating (along with a case of elephantiasis), so naturally I call > > him "Pee Boy". > KM> Does he swim in the gene pool? :D > And pass that thing on?! I hope not! > KM> against the bottom of the vehicle. But I also prefer to sit > KM> higher and have big open wheel wells, so every time I need to put > KM> chains on I don't use up my entire supply of bad words. > Room to reach around the tire would be an advantage! They say there's a > way to back up (or go forward) a tiny bit to get the chain around the > tire -- uh, yeah, right! If you have to do that, yer doin' it wrong or you've got no room to work... best way is chains flat on the ground, drive about a third of the way onto 'em, flap the long end over the tire, pull up the short end and join 'em up. When I was doing it daily, got to where I could chain up in (actually timed it) about 40 seconds. On a truck with lots more room than the dually... where there's that pesky second tire in the way... lordy, the words I use... and I'm only doing the outside tire. (They make dually chains but way more expensive and even more work.) > > I'm not even sure studded tires are allowed any longer, much less chains > (in Iowa). Usually allowed seasonally, tho not in every state. You wouldn't be driving on bare pavement with chains anyway... wears 'em out real fast. > > KM> Ah, I was not imagining things. > > Contrary to assumptions we have! > KM> Our usual method being to just Make S#1t up. :D > As long as it sounds plausible! We just need to post to a website to > make it valid! Is that how it works? I shall proceed to post everything I wish to be true. Ky is a billionaire. Ky was just appointed dictator for life. > KM> Geez yeah, I hate that. Cash's Core2Duo isn't quite enough for > KM> browser use (can you believe what it takes to decode what's > KM> essentially text and scripts?) and sites like Google Maps clog it > KM> up but good... CPU pegged at 100%. > I've seen some odd "why is it pegging?" events here. The moveing of the > screensaver for Wildcat! will pulse the usage to 100%, for some reason > so will typing these replies: before upgrading the heat sink there were > times I had to let the machine cool off!! Screensaver is probably math-heavy. If it involves stuff that crawls around and curves, definitely so. Windows Tubes screensaver clogged up the last K6-2 450MHz I had in service, to where it couldn't come back from the screensaver... that's why it's no longer in service... Tubes ran fine on the P233MMX, nominally only half as fast but in Real Life about 3x faster. (And the P233 had a much older vidcard.) > > And as sort of a tangent: appears the RPi 4 with 4 GB RAM will run > > MythTV v 30 just fine wirelessly. I think they separated the WiFi from > > the USB -- something got changed and removed a bottleneck. > KM> Ah yes, I remember hearing something about that. > I'll admit to some (a lot?!) of the details go in the eyeballs and out - > well, some place! Right now makes more sense for me to purchase the In one eyeball and out the other! > latest and greatest RPi (so RPi4 at 8 GB) because it is faster, the WiFi > transfers faster, etc. The 8GB I'm not married to -- 4 GB is probably > more than sufficient but for a few dollars more.... I can see where > businesses using RPi's probably need to keep the older Pi's just because > of the need to match what they have: no updating of software, etc. Yeah, for another $25 I'd get the extra 4GB, assuming all else equal. But I do like the idea of all those in the same generation being cross-compatible -- simplifies rolling out a bunch of systems, for sure. (Same reason business buys Dells by the pallet. One Size Fits All.) > > I probably did try NTFS. May have even tried something 'oddball' like > > Amiga and then back to FAT32/NTFS/something compatible -- something non- > > Microsoft to 'overwrite' everything and then bring it back to something > > Microsoft-speak. > KM> Something Went Wrong!! :O > > That sounds like a Windows error message! Actually, that's the official MacOS error message!! > > Yes: stick with what's known! Another second of processing isn't going > > to make too much of a difference after the signal takes a couple of > > minutes to get there! > KM> It's a bit worse than that... one-way for Voyager is now 19 > KM> hours! > That sounds right: the minutes seemed too short but the hours and speed > of light thing together didn't sound right. Yeah, I had to look it up myself! I was thinking months, but I must be a lot further out in space. > > > KM> You can actually buy an i7 motherboard with ISA slots now, made > > KM> by DFI so it's probably pretty good. They sell 'em direct for > > KM> about $300. If Moonbase's board ever dies (P4 with ISA slots), > > KM> I'm lookin' at one of these. > > Makes sense! Sounds a bit odd as "what uses ISA now?" ...Hmm! I'll > KM> My DOS sound card!! > > have to check what I have in the basement: I have some old-old > > daughtercards. (Wrote myself a note -- will check eventually.) > KM> The Sound Blaster in Moonbase (DOOM machine) came with my > KM> original 486, bought in 1994! Still works. Still cranky about not > KM> being in the bottom slot (that pesky IRQ thing). > > I'll have to see what I have and message you. Save your pop can money > as not going to fit in an envelope! I'm gonna have to swap Silver's 'new' (some random used) vidcard, I think.. it's stable in Win64, but not in Win7. Went looking for good and fanless and not too pricey (and at least 1GB RAM) this morning, didn't find anything that gave me joy. Have another that was stable with that Win7 setup when it was in Lightfoot, but VGA out doesn't work and DVI doesn't allow changing screen brightness/contrast. > Ha-ha - yes! Some times it's I know it's around here some place -- was > in a blue box..... At least you color-coded your junk before you lost it! > KM> Next oddest: portable printer -- just the roller and ink cart, > KM> nothing else. Rather messy, but worked. Gave it away as more > KM> trouble than it was worth. > > I finally packed up my old LA50 (DEC dot matrix printer). Intention was > to use both the inkjet (now laser) and dot matrix -- that didn't really > happen. Finally decided to pack it up and use the space for the > shredder (slide-out drawer near carpet level). I technically own a couple of inkjets but one whines that its very expensive cart is out of date, and the other I can't find a driver for (and HP was like, sucks to be you... hey, this was a $900 business printer, and that's your attitude?) So I only use the lasers (all but the color laser being freebies, and it was cheap). Little HPLJ1020 on the desk (6000 pages and still on its initial toner cart) for small jobs, heavy-duty 2100TN for big jobs (have a matched pair of those, think I'm set for life). > And I've kept other older stuff just because of having older computers: > why get rid of a daughtercard or whatever just to end up maybe needing > it later? THIS!!! no matter what you deem too outdated to keep and therefore throw away, THAT will be the next weird thing you need and can't find!!! > KM> Speaking of SSDs... if that system has a spare PCIe slot, you can > KM> get an NVME M.2 drive and a cheap adapter (they come in 1x, 4x, > > I dn't think I'd want to have a hot device too close to anything! Have > dedicated fan or two pointing at the drive! When standing upright in a slot it doesn't seem to get too warm, but if you have it flat on the mainboard... I'd definitely get an NVME with a heatsink. (Someone did a comparison; it helps a lot.) > This system and one downstairs do boot with a SSD drive, mainly because > I don't like waiting for a boot or reboot. I'm not impatient, just > sometimes not wanting to wait. Not quite comfortable with them yet so Yeah, I'm not impatient, I just want it NOW! :D > the data is on a 'traditional' platter hard drive. One of the Frontend > computers (mainly for watching recorded TV shows via MythTV) does have > SSD-only -- sort of an experiment, plus I don't think I had a small spare > HDD at decent specs -- the one I took out was old and slow. OS on SSD, storage on platters -- makes sense to me, especially at the cost differential. Also, jury is still out on SSDs as long-term storage, while spinning rust is pretty much a known level of hazard. > Sometimes it's the push or looks of the representative of the seller company > swaying the purchasing agents at the buying companies! Personally I've > always had very good experience with Western Digital; Seagate seems to > show up everywhere but also seems to be needing to be replaced more > often (guess by which brand!). Gee, I can't imagine! > > KM> Used to be if you started with a good motherboard, you could > KM> skimp on everything else til the price came down, then upgrade > KM> CPU, RAM, video, etc. But nowadays board and CPU tend to be a > KM> matched set with a limited set of upgrade options. > > Yes, I will agree with that. I haven't done too much buying but when > looking to buy a motherboard for the now-extra CPU (had bought a 'kit', > wouldn't install the OS because of a bad BIOS setting and a faulty RAM > stick) there were limitied options of motherboards for that CPU, so > couldn't get the specs I wanted (and not have ones I didn't need). I > was thinking more the CPU socket needing to match, which does limit > which motherboard and CPU can go together. There's also the CPU > wattage to consider, probably other specs. ...Whether it's fireproof > for the NVME fry-drive.... Woulda been nice to have low-wattage CPUs but you don't always have that choice. Silver II and Fireball are both 130W TDP but have noticed these newer Intels are quite good about downthrottling themselves when full power isn't needed. > Hadn't head about Gnome and the swipe thing -- we have to get touch > screens now or right_click and move? (semi-joke). Might be in 20.04, > I'm at 18.04. Oh, I mean the way the desktop operates, where you don't have static icons, you have a display that you crank back and forth. Drives me to drink. > KM> I don't know of any such case in modern software. From what > KM> Microsoft is doing with the linux subsystem for Windows, I have a > KM> suspicion they're going to pull a Novell and switch Windows' guts > KM> to linux, or at least try to... which would let them piggyback on > KM> existing development and fire all their OS devs. > > But Microsoft _never_ steals nor does underhanded things like that! Well, technically you can't 'steal' opensource... I don't think it would be a good move, tho, and not only because having alternative ecosystems is generally a good thing. Switching their codebase to linux is what basically killed Novell -- they went from having an utterly unique product to being just another Linux also-ran, which sealed the company's fate. > (Almost typed that with a straight font!) LOL! SOOO stealing that one > > Your lawn mower has a mosquito gear? Ours has rabbit and turtle speeds! > KM> Yeah, it flies. At least when we're leaping off the steep part of > KM> the front yard! > It's easy to mow down the hill, a bear to mow back up! Going sideways > isn't so bad except one direction the gas leaks out of the tank! Oh, going down ain't so fun either... mower wants to run away from me! But yeah, sideways part, the mower has to be full of gas or it stalls out. > KM> Hurricanes DO occur over land, but usually in winter. Those > KM> "storm of the century" blizzards are usually hurricanes.... and > I wonder if that was what we really had here on New Year's probably > 1978? Started snowing very heavily New Year's Eve, continued for the > next day (New Year's), possibly the following. Forgot how much snow we > got but basically shut down the Quad Cities for several days. Wind- > blown snow covered the windows of the apartments on the first floor yet > there was an almost bare area then a huge pile of snow in the center > common area between the U-shaped building. Coulda been... we get 'em every few years. > > > .. If say "I always lie", am I lying? > KM> Yes. No. > > True! False! þ RNET 2.10U: ILink: Techware BBS þ Hollywood, Ca þ www.techware2k.com --- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462 * Origin: ILink: CFBBS | cfbbs.no-ip.com | 856-933-7096 (454:1/1) .