Subj : Slimmed down Debian To : Ky Moffet From : Barry Martin Date : Fri Jun 12 2020 19:27:00 Hi Ky! > KM> Someday your prints will come. > KM> -- motto of the serial printer. > "Psst! CTS?" "Huh?" "Is it Clear to Send?" > Or maybe as Mr. Miaggi could say to Grasshopper: "XON, XOFF... > XON, XOFF...." KM> KM> Wait, I don't have a backup?? That's what happens when you sit on a stool: nothing to lean against! > KM> Xeon systems. But AMD's philosophy is why bother when gamers will > KM> replace it with some fancy aftermarket cooling to compensate for > KM> their overclocking habit. > Almost seems the Green-visored Ones would say to ship without any > heatsink/fan and save the money. Sell as an accessory and mark up the > price. ...Legal Department might be mooing as some sort of cooling is > required and there would be a significant number of purchasers who would > rip off the yellow warning sticker and run without any cooling. KM> And there's the fact that like everyone else making hardware, KM> their real money comes from selling to OEMs. Yonder HP/Compaq KM> (the one with Vista) has an Asus motherboard with an AMD CPU, KM> functionally identical to Westworld (another someone gift me), KM> except that the HP BIOS is locked, so it's stuck with the CPU it KM> has (otherwise it would be somewhat upgradeable), while Westworld KM> got an upgrade. Anyway, OEMs don't want to have to piddle around, KM> they just want a matched unit. It does help take some of the guesswork out of customer support! > KM> I have two of those cheap little HP heatpipe coolers, on the two > KM> hottest CPUs, and they do a stellar job. First time I checked, > KM> the i7-4820K (130W) was running at a barely-warm 82F. (Tho at the > KM> moment SIW has lost its marbles and thinks it's 478F. Er, I don't > KM> think so; I can put my finger on the cooler's foot and it's > KM> barely warm.) > But you're one tough man! ...Can't find it now but at one time PSensor > displayed one thermal sensor as a couple hundred degrees below zero! KM> Wow, now that's good cooling! I was impressed! ...PSensor also says my CPU fan is rotating at zero RPM - hmm! Obvious a wrong configuration somewhere but sort of low on the priority list to figure out. Is plugged in to the correct motherboard socket. I'd rather the CPU temperature be displaying right. > Since swapping in the CoolerMaster EVO cooler the maximum CPU > temperature I've seen has been just below 120øF -- and considering there > are times when it's been 85ø here in the Computer Room probably not a > number. KM> Yeah, that's about the improvement I'd expect. IOW, down to KM> normal. Yes, definitely much-much better! The Computer Room should be cooler to allow a better environment temperature -- it's not in the budget to run things that cold! > Prior to swapping it out the room was a lot cooler -- upper 60's/lower > 70's but the CPU would hit thermal cutoff (listed at 70øC/158øF but I > don't recall mine) -- doing the backup overnight was frequently sending > over the edge so I would be waking to a shut-down machine. "Oddly" the > backup would automatically restart in the morning and while running hot > didn't quite reach the I Quit stage. With the CoolerMaster EVO cooler > the max temp was 111øF. KM> No idea on that.. why should backups done at night run hotter? KM> Um... are you sure another PC wasn't sneaking upstairs and KM> getting it on with the backup system?? that would explain the KM> heat... Heck ,they some don't have to sneak around: they're already up here! ....Maybe that explains the Raspberry PI I didn't remember having! As for the running hotter overnight, no didn't make any sense to me either. It would have made more sense to have problems during the morning when doing the backup after the boot and I was usually on the system. Just before swapping the heat sink assembly I turned off the automated back ups temporarily (figured once too many times and bye-bye!) and used a manual copy routine to an external hard drive (USB 3.0) -- no problems. Warmed up some but wasn't to the dangerous level. No ZIPping going on? A little bit slower data transfer? (The backup used my Ethernet LAN to connect to the destination drive.) > > approved" heatsink/fan combo which kept the FX-8320 processor > > sufficiently cool as long as it didn't do much work. > KM> ..."as long as it didn't do too much work" is the very > KM> description of inadequate cooling! > Maybe that was the reason for the multiple cores: you're getting too > hot, hand your processes over and take a break. KM> Haha, that would be AMD's reasoning, all right. I just can't quite gather together why if AMD is so into gaming which does a lot of math why the CPU cooling was so chintzy. Oh well, just go back to Intel. Maybe daisychain together a few RPi 4's and go that way! > KM> I've had the thought that a generator that could run off the > KM> natural gas line would be a Good Thing. > It will be, though not falling through the deck seems to be a better > idea right now. KM> No, really? :D OTOH the generator could run the electric winch to pull one of us out of the hole! KM> So I went looking for "natural gas generator sine wave" and first KM> thing I came to... KM> https://www.chainsawjournal.com/firman-generators-reviews/ KM> I'd never even heard of these, but they start around $300. I never heard of them either -- will have to see what they offer and if sold and serviced locally. KM> Ideally tho, one would want it hardwired into the house, and KM> vented into the furnace flue. Hmm: I sort of thought they'd had to be outside. Inside would have advantages of being protected and no mice making a winter home like last year in the air conditioning compressor. Here might have to be vented through the water heater's flue: it vents up through the roof while the furnace vents horizontally through the wall. That's the installer's problem. KM> Some whining from Consumer Reports: KM> https://www.consumerreports.org/inverter-generators/pros-and-cons- KM> of-inverter-g KM> nerators/ I'll look at your links later -- tons of ILink messages today and have another little project I need to get done for Moday morning. Yes, have the weekend, but invariably something urgent pops up so I don't like waiting until the last minute. KM> Interesting video from another manufacturer I never heard of: KM> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsRGKRzLQJM KM> Interesting that they're using Honda engines... back when I first KM> looked into a generator (never bought one), Honda generators were KM> just a Briggs & Stratton generator in a prettied up case (for an KM> additional $1200). That's interesting! Older information I had was the Honda engines were extremely quite, and that was one of the reasons they were used at the John Deere Classic (golf tournament). > They were trimming branches several years ago and dropped one across a > major transmission line (40,000, 400,000 volts - was up there) -- oops! KM> OOOPS! Really. :) They were supposed to be trimming branches to prevent that kind of problem, not cause it! > KM> I don't know LivePatch? PCLOS does updates on the fly, but you > KM> have to restart to load a newly-arrived kernel. There've been so > KM> many this year that GRUB's list has become very long. I've never > KM> had to boot to an older kernel, but not worth the bother to > KM> remove 'em, either. > LivePatch is something relatively new -- think it started with or maybe > mid- Ubuntu 16.04. At first I didn't use it -- wait to have the others > test it out; every so often will see a notification an update has been > applied; looking in Notifications History one was done 18 hours ago, so > around 2 p.m. yesterday. No idea what it updated, then three-quarters > of the time I had no idea what it was asking about (permission to apply > an update). KM> Sometimes I bother looking through the Info list, more often not, KM> as I don't have any apps locked (not updateable) on that system, KM> so it can do whatever it likes. I'll sometimes look to see what it is doing, a little bit of nosieness and a little bit of maybe I'll learn something. LIS in other places, I pretty much assume they are updating to fix a problem or make it better. Occasionally 'poop occurs': an update around two years ago caused a problem with certain nVidea video drivers; one was on a system down- stairs -- ended up rolling GRUB back to the previous version; a few days later the problem was corrected. > As for older kernels, I haven't had to go into that option in ages. > Handy to have just in case, though two or three is probably all needed. > OTOH, "if it ain't broke" (let me take crack at it! ). KM> Pretty much! Then again, it's kinda interesting to have the list, KM> another reason to just leave it be. It default boots to whichever KM> one I picked last anyway, so no nuisance after the first restart KM> post-update. I looked yesterday to see what old kernels I had as there was a semi- large power failure -- automated system reported 769 people affected when I called in a couple minutes after the power failed. I have the current kernal and a back up. > > I'll have to play around later. Did check and I am currently running > > 4096 MB (so 4 GB) memory for this XP Virtual Machine. I do recall > > increasing to that amount definitely improved the response. Seems moreI > KM> The default is something like 512mb which is a trifle cramped. > Here there was "noticeable sluggishness". I think just drawing out the > display was took one or two coffee slurps. KM> Yeah, that's what I'd expect! I'm not sure how it handles KM> swapfile but if present, it's gotta be stuffed in there too. Rainy day computer fun! > > have an issue with video sluggishness: Video Memory at 20 MB currently, > > which seems horrendously tiny but off-hand don't recall the reasoning. > KM> 8mb should suffice for XP that's not doing recentish gaming. I > KM> think VirtualBox defaults it to 128mb which is overkill for basic > KM> use. > OK, thanks. I vaguely recall playing with the video memory values and > don't recall why I settled on the 20 MB value. KM> I would do a power of 2, so use 32 instead of 20. Thinking this KM> is more likely to align with what the OS expects of video RAM. I KM> just leave it at 128mb since I have the RAM to spare and that KM> should cover all possible use cases. OK -- Yes, 20 MB is a odd value. I don't recall where I got it from . > KM> Except not today. The crappy socket939 box that was reassigned to > KM> ReactOS (cuz that AMD CPU don't do proper 64bit) decided to pop a > KM> capacitor, and it looks like it's the same general location as my > KM> slightly newer one with the southbridge problem. Methinks there's > KM> a reason Asus went to solid capacitors. > They were cheaper than warranty motherboard replacements?! KM> Oh, these never fail in warranty... probably more like was KM> cheaper than the bad reputation from lots of fails in systems KM> owned by noisy gamers! And they're not just cheering loudly because they won! > KM> Still debating what goes on Fireball, tho since chances are it > KM> eventually replaces Bullet (when/if it ever dies) ... XP64! > Don't you just love new operating systems?! KM> NO!! I do tend to follow the old BBSers' "rule": never buy a version ending in zero. > > so she (hopefully) wouldn't get confused: "you want to go outside- > > bathroom?", hopefully coupling the 'outside' concept of "do you want to > > go outside" to play, go for a walk, etc., and not confuse with one of > > saying we had to go to the bathroom. > KM> Oh yes, they can make those connections well enough. > I sort of know dogs (and other animals) can connect thoughts and > understand or at least get the idea of what a human is saying, so the > 'trick' is to minimize the 'foreign language' confusion. Sloppy example > would be "roll over" and offering a roll (the bread kind) with "do you > want a roll?". Would almost make sense on "do you want a roll?" the dog > would roll over. KM> Actually... if you just talk to them a lot, they will learn KM> natural language about as well as a human child of similar KM> intelligence. A very bright dog is about on par with a bright 6 KM> year old, or maybe a little better, and can understand KM> consequences about as well too (that being a good definition of KM> functional intelligence); a dumb dog is more like an early KM> toddler. Average is probably around same as 3 year old human. KM> (But I've bred for intelligence for so long that merely-average KM> dogs now seem retarded.) The idea that it's just a reflexive KM> response to a familiar sound is nonsense. I've had two dogs, collie and Lhasa Apso, so not even approaching a decent study size, but both seemed to know what they were doing in more than a "if I do your trick I get a treat" way. > > ..So "Mageia"..... Nothing coming even semi-clever coming to mind. > KM> I still haven't named the 3 Dells anything clever, tho Larry, > KM> Darryl, and Darryl comes to mind. > Especially if two of the Dells were essentially identical! KM> Three of 'em, they're triplets! Tho oddly, despite being KM> 'identical' they're not quite the same in subtle ways, which KM> affect how Windows runs. Which is why one got picked to stay KM> Win7; it ran best. Makes sense to use them to their talents. Around here it sort of would have made sense to have identical computers as most run 'just' MythTV. Didn't and doesn't work out that way as some fit better in a vertical/upright orientation and some in a horizontal orientation. Also not all bought together: had an old computer, used that; upgraded my system, used that for another function. > > get too mixed up" philosophy with MythTV being based on Ubuntu it sort > > of made sense to learn or at least be more familiar with Ubuntu to > > troubleshoot MythTV. > KM> So there's some method to your masochism. > Yup! Just not always so apparent from the surface. (Why am I thinking > "deep down I'm really shallow"?) KM> You need to refill your pool. We have a decorative pond in the back yard, submurged pump to a couple of items. One is the 'classic' statue of a boy straddling an urn and the water comes out the urn. Well it sort of looks like the kid is urinating (along with a case of elephantiasis), so naturally I call him "Pee Boy". > > KM> I live where the power goes out in bad weather. I like gas > > KM> engines. > KM> I also don't like the idea of trusting to an electric car when > KM> there are stretches of up to 200 miles between power outlets. > Just bring along a power pack! Most of my travels I'd be within 20 > miles of an outlet -- the one at the house. The store where I worked was > only five miles away, so a ten-mile round trip. Any long distance > travelling we always took the other car. KM> I need an 'other car' but only because the F350 is 1) a pain to KM> park, 2) not 4 wheel drive (does well on ice, not in snow), and KM> 3) the suspension is so stiff that washboards make it go off the KM> road sideways, so back roads wandering is right out. (World's KM> best highway and towing truck, but NOT a dirt road truck.) So KM> I've been looking for something like an older Explorer or Ranger, KM> but so far no joy (at least in my very low price range)... older KM> cuz I want it up on legs so easy to put chains on, and the newer KM> ones (aside from being ugly) sit too low. Sitting low also has a potential problem with getting stuck in ruts, or at least knocking off underneath parts. > It was sort of a no-brainer. We did ask about checking with > the neighbours: three other houses get power from the same transformer; > the supervisor (guess so - he seemed to be in charge) said it didn't > matter as the pole was on our property so we got to make the decision. KM> Haha, there's a perk! Really!! Not sure if it was the truth but got things going. The pole is without question on our property as far as north-south goes; east-west questionable: I not 100% where the property line is -- everyone trims up to the fences but at the corner no fences were installed as was a clump of natural, maybe planted shrubbery and everyone has just sor tof followed a line and never had a problem. > > As for powering a generator, the little ones tend to put out square > > waves which will ruin electronics and some electrical. The bigger gas- > KM> You can get a sine-wave convertor, tho. > Probably true; I sort of prefer 'doing it right' from the beginning, so > would be a small one with a sine wave output. KM> See above...this seems to be more the default than not anymore. Yes, will look at those leads - thanks! ...I'd rather spend the $1,200 on maybe a bigger model to run more of the house (100% whole house just seems like overkill), or more likely an upgrade while replacing the deck and porch. > KM> Actually, I found a P3-500 is about the minimum for decoding > KM> DVDs, and it's real borderline (has spasms of being unable to > KM> keep up). The old DVDs default to what, 720p? so there's your > KM> baseline. The P233 could not play MP4s without a lot of > KM> stuttering and staggering, and DVDs were right out. > Yes on the 720 resolution; anything higher is an up-conversion. Was KM> Ah, I was not imagining things. Contrary to assumptions we have! > looking at the notes I have on one of Frontend computers: AMD (!) - got > it several years back; video card will output at least 1080 because > that's what the max the local TV stations use. (Know NBC uses 1080 > while FOX uses 720; dont' recall ABC and CBS off-hand.) KM> Don't look at me, I ain't got no TV! Sometimes just as well! > Also half-remembering at least though MythTV version 0.28 it almost > didn't matter what the CPU specs were as long as halfway current as > loaded in to RAM and used the GPU in the video card. KM> Pretty much anything that can run linux well enough to not tear KM> your hair out is enough for video. Linux really needs at least a KM> multicore 2GHz system (unless you're using a minimal distro like KM> Puppy) to run decently, which is about 20x more horsepower than KM> the P3-500. So should be totally no worries there. Pretty much right. I'll admit to sort of wanting a 'high performance' system because I don't to wait. A short bit of a wait is fine -- the ol'd "aw com'on - it's time to upgrade: tagline sort of applies to me. Combination of wanting to keep things inexpensive but also willing to spend money now so I don't have to spend it again later. (Get a video card with specs just above what I need now so I don't have to buy the upgrade later, then wonder what I do with the old one, for example.) And as sort of a tangent: appears the RPi 4 with 4 GB RAM will run MythTV v 30 just fine wirelessly. I think they separated the WiFi from the USB -- something got changed and removed a bottleneck. > KM> Oh, there's an Ooopsie, then. There was a bug in some of that era > KM> that would crop up and do something like that, but I never > KM> encountered it. You're special. > Thank you! :) I don't know if it was a bug -- seems the hard drive was > old enough that wasn't the cause. I always thought it was more like a RW > arm or head fell off or wire broke. No reasoning other than seemed like > a good excuse to me. KM> Um, that would simply quit, and make clacking noises as the arm KM> bangs back and forth looking for it knows not what. (Yes, I've KM> seen one with the head detached... that's exactly what it did.) OK. Did sort of figure I'd hear something rattling around so probably not what happened. > KM> Actually, tho... if it was FAT32, there's your problem. Unstable > KM> once the data exceeds 32GB. I *have* experienced that one. > "250 GB" seems to be coming to mind, though that also was my go-to size > for a lot of the computers around here. > I'd also guess if the hard drive was reformatted to something capable of > greater than the 32GB limit it would have brought the drive back to > life. Sans data, but would have been seen as 128 GB, 240 GB, whatever. > I do recall trying to get the original capacity back with various FATs > but unable to, and the size always seemed to be reported about the same. KM> This is why we format things NTFS; it doesn't have this silly KM> bug. Yep, discovering the data wrapping bug was when I stopped KM> using FAT32 for anything newer than Win98. I probably did try NTFS. May have even tried something 'oddball' like Amiga and then back to FAT32/NTFS/something compatible -- something non- Microsoft to 'overwrite' everything and then bring it back to something Microsoft-speak. > > Have read where some businesses' software can't be upgraded to something > > more current just because it doesn't exist so they have to stick with > > antique hardware to run the software. > KM> Yeah, lot of that with specialty ISA cards for industrial > KM> applications. > I wonder if anything I have in the basement is worthwhile?! And now > that I typed that can't recall what I have; know I put some old stuff > out for electronic recycle several months ago. KM> Was a day when NASA scarfed up 486s... utterly known set of bugs KM> and features, a good thing when the PC tech is half a solar KM> system away! Yes: stick with what's known! Another second of processing isn't going to make too much of a difference after the signal takes a couple of minutes to get there! KM> You can actually buy an i7 motherboard with ISA slots now, made KM> by DFI so it's probably pretty good. They sell 'em direct for KM> about $300. If Moonbase's board ever dies (P4 with ISA slots), KM> I'm lookin' at one of these. Makes sense! Sounds a bit odd as "what uses ISA now?" ...Hmm! I'll have to check what I have in the basement: I have some old-old daughtercards. (Wrote myself a note -- will check eventually.) > > As for you seven 1GB sticks, odd, but semi-sorta makes sense: I have an > > old Lenovo system with came with three 1 GB sticks -- four slots and the > KM> To make matters odder, the seven sticks are server RAM > KM> (registered ECC). > That is getting odder! KM> And no more useful! Sometimes the oddity is more fun than the usefulness! > KM> Some of 'em are cranky, tho might your second pair were > KM> single-sided or ECC, either of which would not work, tho > KM> single-sided sometimes not works in creative ways (shows up as > KM> half the size, or even smaller). > Right. The single-sided vs. double-sided did come to mind, and I tried > various combinations/placements of the 2 GB sticks. With another > computer several years ago did did have the issue where upgraded and was > given a physically double-sided stick along with a physically > single-sided stick. The single-sided one was detected as half the > value, I think when paired with any of the double-sided sticks. > Returned (was brick-and-mortar), explained my problem and the guy was > familiar, got a physically matching pair and had no problems. KM> Yep, that was commonly how it went! I had gotten home with the first pair (SS + DS), looked at 'em - maybe even through the packaging - and said to myself 'oh-oh!'. Figured I'd try -- maybe luck out. Nope. > KM> I have an Amptron motherboard (quality-wise from well beneath the > KM> barrel) with a P4-2.4GHz CPU, and it has thoroughly weird ideas > KM> about RAM... 2 slots and theoretically it supports 2GB (or was it > KM> 4GB, I forget) but will only boot with a 512mb and 256mb -- AND > KM> they have to NOT be the same speed or timing specs. Matched pair > KM> = no boot! > You win that quirkiness contest!! > Guess a good idea to keep the old RAM from discarded/upgraded systems > just in case ever needed. KM> Some HPLaserJets take standard PC RAM... that's where some of my KM> old 72pin SIMMs went, maxing out RAM in an HPLJ. I had it, so why KM> not? Agree! > > Oops! ...I sort of stopped using smaller hard drives on the various > > MythTV Frontends as they took a relatively long time to boot. > KM> Until relatively recently, linux had poor to absent disk caching, > KM> which made it glacial on hard drives with small cache. > I don't recall the cache numbers but would guess a decent amount as were > usually Western Digitals or Seagates. The brand doesn't guarantee > decent cache amounts, just a general guideline, and wasn't an off-brand. KM> Actually.. WDs had decent HD caching back to about the 2GB era; KM> Seagates still sucked as of 40GB (they were supposed to have KM> some, but it apparently did not work), but seem to be better KM> since. However, Seagates still die in random and unexpected ways, KM> which WDs typically do not. Quite a while back I read where Western Digital purchased another well- known hard drive manufacturer and is (or was) still putting out drives under that name brand. Where I have a choice I think I'll stick with the the WDs. KM> I don't buy Seagate, because of the higher fail rate. Will use KM> one if it falls on my head (ouch!) but won't pay for 'em. KM> Backblaze's stats back up my contention that that Seagate KM> sucks. My overall philosophy is to spend a little extra money and have it last. There are times when a 'patch job' is being done and cheapest is good enough, generally that bites one in the butt. > > KM> Nope, just doing I/O stupidly, I think. > > Microsoft: where we write a new operating system, test, release, then > > find it doesn't work right so we create a new OS. Profits are great!! > KM> Haha... I wonder what they plan to do with their cloud OS, since > KM> they've said Win10 will be the last version of Windows. If they > KM> want everyone to rush right out and buy it, just slap XP's > KM> interface on Win10... that way they don't need another version of > KM> Windows!! > Plus cheaper as have the developing is done! I've not been paying all > that close attention to Windows but thought "Windows 10" was going to be > their last, though still have progressive upgrades and verions -- > sounded confusing as "I have Windows 10" "Which one?" "Windows 10!" > "Which Windows 10?" and "I just upgraded my Windows 10 to Windows 10!" > (Huh?!) KM> Oh yeah, that's enough to drive men mad. I have Win10-early on KM> Westworld (in fact the way Win10 reminded me of the original KM> movie is why that box got the name), and it is not much like KM> Win10-current that's sitting unloved on one of the Dells. And KM> Win10 has definitely not improved, some 10,000 builds later... KM> all it's done is get more and more annoying. Hopefully KDE will KM> stop copying this "modern" BS that's wrecking computer KM> desktops... Trinity is XP-like but not as stable. To me it seems like there is some advantage to making Linux/the various flavours look something like Windows as that's what people are used to, so the 'conversion' isn't such a shock to the average Joe. OTOH as you stated there are quite a few things which no matter how common don't work and it is not a good idea to follow "just because". And then there are a few things where Linux has to follow to get the hardware to work: company has a contract with Microsoft and can't have a Microsoft version and a Linux version, or better yet an open version. (I know: sloppy terminology.) > Cut the grass before the roofers came for last Monday -- could have gone KM> Oh, THAT's what I'm supposed to be doing... there's another hour KM> of daylight, and it's cooled off a bit.. need the mosquito gear, KM> tho... Your lawn mower has a mosquito gear? Ours has rabbit and turtle speeds! > another day or two but easier to find nails and other debris in short > grass -- as it was we found a brass fitting for the nail gun their > magnetic pick up missed ('cause brass isn't magnetic!). Not sure how > they missed it as was bright brass (actually looked like it hadn't even > been used yet). KM> Sweet :D Better than to have found with the lawn mower blade! > Yesterday (Tuesday) they finished the roof -- whoever calculated didn't > do the figuring correctly; wasn't the roofers as they were ones to > discover the shortage and called their boss to try to get the balance > that afternoon (Monday). Also Cristobal hiked through the area KM> Who is Cristobal, a used hurricane? I think it was 'just' a tropical depression, though made a mess in Texas and parts of the South. By the time it got up here to Iowa was pretty much just an extended rain event -- winds weren't all that bad -- 30-40 MPH? Moved the branches around pretty good on the trees. ¯ ® ¯ Barry_Martin_3@ ® --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.47 --- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462 * Origin: ILink: CFBBS | cfbbs.no-ip.com | 856-933-7096 (454:1/1) .