Subj : slow the growing of g To : Ky Moffet From : Barry Martin Date : Tue Jul 11 2023 07:41:00 Hi Ky! > BM> I don't recall doing the salt on snails (the French use garlic utter!) > BM> but did burn a few ants using a magnifying glass. PETA's going to get > BM> us! > DS> I won't comment on the latest thing I saw them do...to make a > DS> long story short, it's blasphemous, IMO. > Probably/possibly so. I have no idea as to what incident you are > referring so a cautionary response. News reports will be incendiary -- > "if it bleeds it leads" -- so while a bit of the incident is true the > full context makes it false. KM> See below. "Puppy mill" is MEANT to be incendiary, not factual. The power of language, sometimes abused by the press. > For instance I once beat a dog with a bike > tire (it was off the rim). OMG I'm an evil person! The whole story is > my dog and a friend's dog got into a fight -- not a quick snap but > drawn-out fangs-bared, biting, etc. Us kids were trying to stop the > fight, I ran to the back yard and got the tire, ran back and started > whapping my friend's dog with the tire. Did stop the fighting and no > injuries to the dogs nor us kids. KM> You stop a dogfight by any means necessary, and the best way is KM> by being a lot scarier than any of the dogs involved. I keep a KM> length of metal conduit by the barn door, because with big dogs KM> nothing less will make enough impact. People who have never seen KM> a pile-on dogfight have absolutely no idea how serious it gets. KM> Hint: the dog on the bottom dies. Any human who tries to separate KM> big dogs without a weapon also dies, or at the very least is KM> seriously injured. As I recall (I was probably 10 or 12 at the time) the dogs were both on their feet but probably shortly escalating into the knock down drag out go-for-the-kill stage. Us kids were yelling to try to break up, not doing any good, but the good thing is no one was trying to physically separate. No idea how I thought of the tire, plus was soft enough not to harm the animals but firm enough to detract them. As you indicated, my beating up on the dogs (one a friend's, one mine) probably showed them I was in charge, more powerful than they were. KM> I have assiduously bred against dog aggression in my own KM> bloodline, so I rarely get fights anymore. But it can still KM> happen, and I *WILL* stop it. Dogs LOVE to fight, and those with KM> the inborn urge love nothing more. Breeding in or breeding out (as I understand it) is more the emphasizing or de-emphaisizing of a particular trait. Is still there, just made more (or less) active. And you've been breeding for (rounding) 50 years while the trait has been active for 1,000's. > Now I will also admit there are outright evil goings-on which have no > excuse. Puppy mills for one. In some cases probably a fine line > between a breeder and a mill but overall a breeder is conscientious > while a mill.... KM> There is no such thing as a "puppy mill". The term was invented KM> by the Doris Day Animal League as a way of smearing ALL breeders, KM> because that's the best way to bring in the donations. So by KM> their lights, there are NO good breeders. By tugging at the heartstrings. There used to be a commecial with the voiceover of Sally Stuthers (Gloria on All in the Family) -- her voice has a bit of a quiver and tear to it, emphasizing the message. KM> Use the term and you may wind up in court, sued for defamation, KM> and guess what, the precedent is the breeder wins, because the KM> term has no use except to defame. BUT usually the breeder is put KM> out of business first, and the dogs confiscated and sold by KM> "rescue" ***without any proof of wrongdoing*** (if you are a dog KM> breeder, you have NO legal rights) so very few fight it. I'm going to be vague here because I do not know the details: there was a breeder somewhere around here (Sterling/Rock Falls IL is coming to mind) who was raided because the animal conditions were disgusting. Dogs (and probably any other critters who happened to be there) were taken to the local animal shelter. I think the outcome of her trial was prison. KM> What usually get smeared in today's era are commercial breeders KM> -- people who do it for a living, and therefore have tons of KM> experience. Do you really think it's possible to stay in business KM> if you're not doing it right? Puppies are fragile, and die easily KM> if not properly cared for. If you're not caring for them KM> properly, you have no product to sell and can't stay in business KM> (but you already paid for a lot of feed). How is that supposed to KM> work? Right: if nothing to sell nothing to make a profit on. Also if doing 'public selling' where one dog (cat, etc.) is being sold to a family because Timmy wants a puppy then it would seem the display/selling area would need to be presentable to avoid 'turning off' clients. KM> Conversely, once a "humane society" confiscates puppies from a KM> breeder -- on average one in three dies in custody. Who exactly KM> is doing it wrong, again?? Puppies need special care to grow. 'Teenage' and adult dogs still need special care. And who wants to be ripped the surroundings one is used to? KM> And yeah, I get a mite touchy about this, because the public KM> perception DUE TO LIES promulgated by "animal rights" groups is KM> why I wound up starting over from nothing at the age most people KM> are retiring. It's why there are very few dog breeders left in KM> California, but tons of "rescues" (scams that resell dogs, mostly KM> imported now that there aren't enough domestically bred anymore, KM> that they acquire cheaply and sucker the good-hearted into paying KM> their expenses). Again because of marketing language. "I got a dog from ACME Breeders." That's nice. "I adopted an abused dog from Rescue Center." Wow! Poor lil' doggie! KM> Don't think so? All domestic sources combined produce about KM> 700,000 puppies per year (to fill an annual market estimated at 8 KM> million), which is about half what it was 30 years ago. Per the KM> most recent CDC figures (2007) the "rescue" industry IMPORTS KM> about 1.2 MILLION dogs per year, most of them either street dogs KM> from third world sh*tholes (occasionally with active rabies KM> infections), or purpose-bred (mostly in eastern Europe) for the KM> rescue trade. However, theft of purebreds for export to "rescue" KM> is a thriving cottage industry in Turkey, with the dogs being KM> "laundered" by way of China. As you said, laundering of the origin and apply the label of a poor unfortunate critter to make the human feel good. KM> Terrible photos? Uh... some are from facilities that were already KM> old in the 1960s, some are from Korean meat markets, but most are KM> of modern-day "rescues" most of which have zero idea how to house KM> dogs, but sure are good at collecting them for resale. Or in some KM> cases, were staged (and in one case they weren't smart enough not KM> to film the staging, but the judge let it stand as "abuse by the KM> owner" anyway!!) True. And I'll probably get slammed for this tangent but the same trick is used by those agencies soliciting donations for humans. Not saying the conditions don't exist. KM> And of course there are the "rescues" that somehow always have a KM> rare and expensive breed available on demand, and somehow have KM> more available than the combined output of all known breeders KM> (cuz, ya know, over 100% of people who buy an expensive dog then KM> "throw it away"). Turns out most of them breed their own. (There KM> was a "Maltese rescue" that was infamous for this, and made a KM> very nice six figure income at it. I have personally seen a local KM> "humane society" collecting "free puppies" for resale.) $0 collection, run through a mass clinic, a few dollars for food and housing and payroll.... Seems rather profitable based on a lie. ¯ ® ¯ BarryMartin3@MyMetronet.NET ® ¯ ® .... Hot Date! Has found Waldo. --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.47 þ wcECHO 4.2 ÷ ILink: The Safe BBS þ Bettendorf, IA --- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462 * Origin: ILink: CFBBS | cfbbs.no-ip.com | 856-933-7096 (454:1/1) .