Subj : negate the new Win11 To : Ky Moffet From : Barry Martin Date : Sun Jan 04 2026 09:15:00 Hi Ky! > KM> Win11's current requirement an 64bit CPU with the SSE 4.2 > KM> instruction set (specifically the POPCNT function), which came in > KM> with the Core2Duo. This was added as of the 22H2 release. 21H2 > KM> will actually run on an earlier CPU (someone got it running on an > KM> early Pentium 4, tho it was painful), but is no longer > KM> "supported" (21H2 updates ended about a year ago). > Well I'll admit the version releases codings didn't mean a thing to me > other than identification and level, which everything has in some form. > Seems to boil down to if want Microsoft support (and presumably same for > Linux and other out there) need to play by their rules. KM> Yeah. But their rules are rather fuzzy. Their lawyers are gooood! Make rules which the user has to follow but the details are somewhat up for interpretation, Only the rule-maker (Microsoft) knows exactly, and so they can flex to their current preferences. KM> Win10, on the SAME PANE: KM> "Your device will no longer receive security updates! KM> -- proceeds to download major system update and five security KM> updates -- and still receives daily security updates. Yesterday KM> it got two. Ah, that wa the ol' "while supplies last" ploy! KM> And the Win7 laptop got a security update just last week! They were feeling benovelant for the holidays? > KM> And despite that instruction set supposedly requiring at least a > KM> Haswell Intel CPU, I can assure you current Win11 runs perfectly > KM> fine on an Ivy Bridge CPU. [points at Fireball] > From my limited knowledge base it would seem as long as the computer > hardware met the general requirements of the OS it would run. AFAIK a > 64 bit OS will not run on 32-bit hardware, so that would be the first > check. As you mentioned above with the SSE thing, the instruction sets > have to match. ...Keep going down the list. The more tic'd as matching > the better the odds of the old machine running on the new OS. KM> Yeah. I think they're trying to keep it viable for hardware less KM> than 10 to 15 years old, despite appearances. The main stumbling KM> block is the TPM chip, which really is entirely optional, since KM> it's only needed if you require disk encryption (usually a KM> terrible idea) and Secure Boot (not so sure that's a good idea KM> either). TPM actually goes back a long ways; the computer KM> consigned to the little house is a 2009 Dell, and it has a TPM KM> header (not sure if it has the chip, but if you have the header KM> it's a plug-in module that starts at about $20 new). I could see the good and especially bad points of disk encryption, but to my thinking not needed unless is a business computer being used outside of the physical business. File encryption is a different critter. > KM> So... *technically* as far back as the earliest consumer 64bit > KM> multicore CPUs (that actually did 64bit; some early AMD64 CPUs > KM> did not, and will only run a 32bit OS). > First item on checklist! (I'm supposed to read the whole message > first??!) KM> LOL. Basics! I usually consider BBS and e-mail messages (well, the personal ones) as conversations in writing so read paragraph (sometimes two), respond, read, respond..... > KM> They seem to have dropped the previous specification of an i7-6th > KM> gen or later. Probably because all the cheap Win11 laptops were > KM> arriving with an N-series Celeron, which is about half as fast as > KM> the earliest Core2Duo (but uses very little power, good for > KM> battery life). And Win11 runs adequately well on those N-series > KM> CPUs, despite that they're so much slower than an early Core2Duo. > Sometimes trade-offs. A little slower, but great battery life -- that > would be good for usage at a construction site where they don't have > power outlets installed. (Heck, they barely have the walls installed!) KM> That was the original point of tablet PCs. I remember when the KM> ads all showed construction sites! No power, but we're rugged! > KM> I have two netbooks and my mom's old laptop that all have > KM> N-series Celerons. The netbooks (4GB RAM) have Win11, and are > KM> pleasant enough; I regularly use them as portable word > KM> processors. The laptop (upgraded to its 8GB RAM max and all of > KM> HP's crap nuked) has Win10, and it's sluggggggish. In such poor > KM> circumstances, Win11 performs better. > Semi-same with my old Lenovo T61 (though running Ubuntu for > compatibility). Sluggish, but for what I need it for I'll put up with > that. KM> 2.4GHz Core2Duo, pretty good for a 2007 laptop. KM> https://icecat.biz/us/p/lenovo/8895wea/thinkpad-laptops-thinkpad+t KM> 61-1758081.ht KM> l (Where's my 'm'??!!) Looks about right: I remember there were different versions but overall correct. ...Though now not quite: I added RAM and swapped the HDD for a SDD. KM> Given it was designed for Vista, probably shipped with 4GGB RAM KM> and spinning rust. If you haven't upgraded it and still use it, KM> might be worthwhile, and easy enough to do. It takes up to 8GB of KM> DDR2. Caught me not reading ahead again! IIRC it originally had 2 GB; just checked: now has 2x 2GB DDR2. Know I checked before buying to be sure of maxing out. Now has a 1TB SSD. :) ...Using a whopping 4%! KM> Quick how-to KM> (note that one must take care not to rip the ribbon cable that KM> goes to the touchpad) KM> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYkefpMSBso Your turn to not read ahead! ...Oh. Forgot where I got the instructions from but detailed manual of steps to replace parts and accompanying drawings. (Porbably IBM/Lenovo knowing them.) > > Yes, between saving a thousand dollars for new computer stuff and > > getting socked billions for keeping it I think the answer is clear: we > > get to buy refurbished stuff!! > KM> YES!! > And so us individual end-users buy and start using the stuff the KM> At a much reduced price, which will perhaps save the consumer PC KM> market from collapse since RAM is presently priced out of reach KM> of anyone who isn't Big Corporate. I haven't looked at the prices as not planning to build anything soon. About the only items purchasing of late are small peripherals like a USB3 powered hub. > OS-people told the businesses to stop using, but yet they (OS-people) > still have to semi-support the old hardware because it is capable of > using the current software. KM> It's nothing to do with the OS. Businesses that don't have KM> massive liability concerns often use quite old stuff that hasn't KM> seen official support in a decade. Friend supports one-man-band KM> accountant offices that still use computers and OSs literally old KM> enough to vote. > So they large question (not 'big' ) is why was the old hardware > forced out?! KM> 1) because the OEMs live on the 3 year churn cycle (hence the 3 KM> year warranty), and KM> 2) liability concerns as previously discussed. Unsupported KM> hardware (anything that's out of warranty) is a liability too. My KM> sister's office won't even keep a vehicle that's out of warranty KM> (they sell 'em off to employees, who get a nice well-kept KM> middle-aged car at a very good price). And no personal vehicles KM> allowed on job sites, has to be a company car. OK, makes more sense now. > KM> KM> churning hardware....> > (Must be virtual hardware as data is just information.) KM> Too bad it's not all virtual.... but the data has to live KM> somewhere, and be processed somewhere. However, the vast majority KM> does run on some species of virtual machine. Yes: just doesn't exist in the atmosphere. Has to have some sort of 'rootings' in memory and hard drives -- maybe also SSD -- but some physical space. ...I could even earn a little money by renting extra storage space on the computers here for part of the cloud. > KM> Cuz the bloody AI craze is why the price of RAM quadrupled > KM> overnight, and why SSDs suddenly got scarce (and doubled in > KM> price, and that's still rising). > As with everything due to supply and demand. KM> This is an artificial demand, tho. The wannabe datacenters mostly KM> don't yet exist, and many have been whoa-nellied by locals who KM> were unimpressed with becoming energy serfs in the name of Big KM> Data (about a third of your current electric bill is due to KM> datacenters, which get a lot of subsidies at taxpayer and KM> consumer expense). Even so, they are scarfing up the ENTIRE KM> market for RAM and GPUs, in anticipation of being the Next Big KM> Thing (and all trying to get there ahead of the next guy). Hope for a big crash and those prices will plummet!! I'll attach 18 TB drives to my spare Raspberry Pi 3's!!! KM> And it's a big circle jerk: OpenAI invested billions in NVidia, KM> then bought billions worth of NVidia GPUs. So the real motivation KM> is moving tons of "revenue" to artificially inflate the stock KM> price and market cap. Well that's one way to get your money back! > ..I sort of get a kick how on the game shows when reading off the list > of "wow's!" for a TV they exclaim it has an AI processor. I'm thinking KM> Making it capable of screenshotting what you watch and reporting KM> back to the mothership, and tayloring your "ad experience" to KM> what you watch. (Yes, this is happening with newer "smart TVs".) I've read that. For me generally not working: TV is OTA -- live could still be custom-tailored but most of my TV watching is recorded. Which includes recording the commercials transmitted at the time. Of which I usually FF over, so still a chance for a bit of subliminal advertising. (Some of that fru-fru high-end cat- and dog food looks like a high-end restaurant presentation!) Recording PlutoTV I get no commercials; watching live on the semi-smart TV (it has a few strange quirks like to change channels can't use the buttons on the remote any longer so the on-screen virtual keyboard, but can't 'finish' by clicking the virtual 'OK' button but have to wait for it to determine no more numbers and it decides to change. The updated instructions on their website says the proper way works, and the new remote doesn't work with this model). ....Where was I? Live PlutoTV does give commericals, many local inserts. > back in the old days one of the "AI processors" was the AGC circuit -- > automatic gain control: too strong a signal, automatically trim it a > bit; too strong, boost it a bit. KM> And that's nothing but a load-balancing algorithm (itself likely KM> just a quadratic equation), doesn't require any "AI" at all. Only if one really stretches the definition! KM> We in ranch country hear "AI" and think "artificial insemination" KM> then have to shift gears .... well, we're getting screwed by AI, KM> so maybe it's all one. That is sort of the problem with abbreviations: have to consider the context. ...Plumbers probably get confused when we talk about "seepy U's". > > I haven't played like that but makes sense. My _extremely_ limited > > experiences between Windows and Linux were Linux was either faster or > > about the same. And I need to note this comparison was done decades > > ago. > KM> Back around 1998, Argo dual-booted RedHat6 and Win95. Win95 ran > KM> rings around RH6, which was at best glacial. That was my first > KM> clue that the hype wasn't all it seemed. > Though they've found dual booting isn't that feasible. Downright not > advised of late. Back around then I did have some computers which I KM> Not anymore, no. GRUB has its own difficulties, and my KM> observation is that Windows since Win7 rewrites the boot sector KM> every time you switch OSs, which is trouble begging to happen. Oh yeah! KM> In the long-ago I used to hang out on a forum that was largely KM> Complain About Windows. And almost universally, the complaint KM> "all of a sudden Windows won't boot" was followed by an admission KM> that they were dual-booting with linux "which still works". GRUB KM> updates and nukes the Windows boot sector, and naturally then KM> Windows won't boot. "Where'd my starting instructions go?!" ...I had that type of problem when the SSD was failing: good news is I was able to fsck and recover the data and so continue, (The SSD has since been replaced.) KM> I have not dual-booted since Argo's era, beyond some experiments KM> not meant for prime time. Experiments are good! ...I can sort of understand how the dual boot is supposed to work. I think the problem is when the new OS wants to write to the boot sector, but the boot sector is currently under control of the old OS. Unless there's an univeral method to do boot instructions for all OS it's not going to work. (Half-thinking like the boot sector is switching languages from French to German.) > KM> Fireball (4th gen Xeon, 64GB RAM) has about 20 HDDs with various > KM> OSs. Including: > KM> Windows: XP64, Server2008R2 (Win7 server), Win10 Pro, Win11 > KM> Workstation Linux: Fedora (what it presently runs), Mageia, > KM> Devuan, Debian, Mint, others I forget. (For some unknown reason, > KM> PCLinuxOS won't run on it.) > It's a diva?! KM> It's too complicated. PCLinuxOS is "radically simple". To make things simple on the outside (to the user) needs to be able to do all the complicated stuff on the inside. > > > .. In the English language nothing starts with 'n' and ends with g'. > > KM> A narrating clearly necessitating a course in remedial English, > > KM> for one who doesn't put nutmeg in their hot cocoa. But sure is > > KM> nosing around memes online....perhaps their brain suffered a > > KM> necrotizing infection. > > Did you miss 'nothing'?! > KM> By then I was nodding off. > Frequent slurps of fresh coffee and/or tea! KM> Tea, that's a thought.... Some teas have caffeine -- some more than coffee. Just in case you're sensitive towards caffeine. ...I go for the flavored teas for a taste difference. Earl Grey is a nice traditional option; there's a nice apple-cinnamon one, chai... I keep them in a round box from which I was gifted last year? - two years ago? - which had a flavour variety. Will buy a box or two when on sale and restock the container -- sometimes look for a specific one, sometimes a random pick. > .. Baby chick found orange in mother's coop:"Look at the orange marmalade." KM> All wisdom is found in taglines. Keeping it short and to the point. ¯ ® ¯ BarryMartin3@MyMetronet.NET ® ¯ ® .... Wisdom has been chasing you but you have always been faster. --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.47 þ wcECHO 4.2 ÷ ILink: The Safe BBS þ Bettendorf, IA þ RNET 2.10U: ILink: Techware BBS þ Hollywood, Ca þ www.techware2k.com --- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462 * Origin: ILink: CFBBS | cfbbs.no-ip.com (454:1/1) .