Subj : Re: negate the new Win11 To : Barry Martin From : Ky Moffet Date : Sat Jan 03 2026 09:54:00 BARRY MARTIN wrote: > Hi Ky! > KM> Win11's current requirement an 64bit CPU with the SSE 4.2 > KM> instruction set (specifically the POPCNT function), which came in > KM> with the Core2Duo. This was added as of the 22H2 release. 21H2 > KM> will actually run on an earlier CPU (someone got it running on an > KM> early Pentium 4, tho it was painful), but is no longer > KM> "supported" (21H2 updates ended about a year ago). > > Well I'll admit the version releases codings didn't mean a thing to me > other than identification and level, which everything has in some form. > Seems to boil down to if want Microsoft support (and presumably same for > Linux and other out there) need to play by their rules. Yeah. But their rules are rather fuzzy. Win10, on the SAME PANE: "Your device will no longer receive security updates! -- proceeds to download major system update and five security updates -- and still receives daily security updates. Yesterday it got two. And the Win7 laptop got a security update just last week! > KM> And despite that instruction set supposedly requiring at least a > KM> Haswell Intel CPU, I can assure you current Win11 runs perfectly > KM> fine on an Ivy Bridge CPU. [points at Fireball] > > From my limited knowledge base it would seem as long as the computer > hardware met the general requirements of the OS it would run. AFAIK a > 64 bit OS will not run on 32-bit hardware, so that would be the first > check. As you mentioned above with the SSE thing, the instruction sets > have to match. ...Keep going down the list. The more tic'd as matching > the better the odds of the old machine running on the new OS. Yeah. I think they're trying to keep it viable for hardware less than 10 to 15 years old, despite appearances. The main stumbling block is the TPM chip, which really is entirely optional, since it's only needed if you require disk encryption (usually a terrible idea) and Secure Boot (not so sure that's a good idea either). TPM actually goes back a long ways; the computer consigned to the little house is a 2009 Dell, and it has a TPM header (not sure if it has the chip, but if you have the header it's a plug-in module that starts at about $20 new). > KM> So... *technically* as far back as the earliest consumer 64bit > KM> multicore CPUs (that actually did 64bit; some early AMD64 CPUs > KM> did not, and will only run a 32bit OS). > > First item on checklist! (I'm supposed to read the whole message > first??!) LOL. Basics! > > KM> They seem to have dropped the previous specification of an i7-6th > KM> gen or later. Probably because all the cheap Win11 laptops were > KM> arriving with an N-series Celeron, which is about half as fast as > KM> the earliest Core2Duo (but uses very little power, good for > KM> battery life). And Win11 runs adequately well on those N-series > KM> CPUs, despite that they're so much slower than an early Core2Duo. > > Sometimes trade-offs. A little slower, but great battery life -- that > would be good for usage at a construction site where they don't have > power outlets installed. (Heck, they bare have the walls installed!) That was the original point of tablet PCs. I remember when the ads all showed construction sites! > KM> I have two netbooks and my mom's old laptop that all have > KM> N-series Celerons. The netbooks (4GB RAM) have Win11, and are > KM> pleasant enough; I regularly use them as portable word > KM> processors. The laptop (upgraded to its 8GB RAM max and all of > KM> HP's crap nuked) has Win10, and it's sluggggggish. In such poor > KM> circumstances, Win11 performs better. > > Semi-same with my old Lenovo T61 (though running Ubuntu for > compatibility). Sluggish, but for what I need it for I'll put up with > that. 2.4GHz Core2Duo, pretty good for a 2007 laptop. https://icecat.biz/us/p/lenovo/8895wea/thinkpad-laptops-thinkpad+t61-1758081.html Given it was designed for Vista, probably shipped with 4GGB RAM and spinning rust. If you haven't upgraded it and still use it, might be worthwhile, and easy enough to do. It takes up to 8GB of DDR2. Quick how-to (note that one must take care not to rip the ribbon cable that goes to the touchpad) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYkefpMSBso About a year back I paid something like $8 shipped for a couple sticks of DDR2 laptop RAM. > > Yes, between saving a thousand dollars for new computer stuff and > > getting socked billions for keeping it I think the answer is clear: we > > get to buy refurbished stuff!! > KM> YES!! > > And so us individual end-users buy and start using the stuff the At a much reduced price, which will perhaps save the consumer PC market from collapse since RAM is presently priced out of reach of anyone who isn't Big Corporate. > OS-people told the businesses to stop using, but yet they (OS-people) > still have to semi-support the old hardware because it is capable of > using the current software. It's nothing to do with the OS. Businesses that don't have massive liability concerns often use quite old stuff that hasn't seen official support in a decade. Friend supports one-man-band accountant offices that still use computers and OSs literally old enough to vote. > So they large question (not 'big' ) is why was the old hardware > forced out?! 1) because the OEMs live on the 3 year churn cycle (hence the 3 year warranty), and 2) liability concerns as previously discussed. Unsupported hardware (anything that's out of warranty) is a liability too. My sister's office won't even keep a vehicle that's out of warranty (they sell 'em off to employees, who get a nice well-kept middle-aged car at a very good price). And no personal vehicles allowed on job sites, has to be a company car. > KM> KM> churning hardware....> > > (Must be virtual hardware as data is just information.) Too bad it's not all virtual.... but the data has to live somewhere, and be processed somewhere. However, the vast majority does run on some species of virtual machine. > KM> Cuz the bloody AI craze is why the price of RAM quadrupled > KM> overnight, and why SSDs suddenly got scarce (and doubled in > KM> price, and that's still rising). > > As with everything due to supply and demand. This is an artificial demand, tho. The wannabe datacenters mostly don't yet exist, and many have been whoa-nellied by locals who were unimpressed with becoming energy serfs in the name of Big Data (about a third of your current electric bill is due to datacenters, which get a lot of subsidies at taxpayer and consumer expense). Even so, they are scarfing up the ENTIRE market for RAM and GPUs, in anticipation of being the Next Big Thing (and all trying to get there ahead of the next guy). And it's a big circle jerk: OpenAI invested billions in NVidia, then bought billions worth of NVidia GPUs. So the real motivation is moving tons of "revenue" to artificially inflate the stock price and market cap. > > ..I sort of get a kick how on the game shows when reading off the list > of "wow's!" for a TV they exclaim it has an AI processor. I'm thinking Making it capable of screenshotting what you watch and reporting back to the mothership, and tayloring your "ad experience" to what you watch. (Yes, this is happening with newer "smart TVs".) > back in the old days one of the "AI processors" was the AGC circuit -- > automatic gain control: too strong a signal, automatically trim it a > bit; too strong, boost it a bit. And that's nothing but a load-balancing algorithm (itself likely just a quadratic equation), doesn't require any "AI" at all. We in ranch country hear "AI" and think "artificial insemination" then have to shift gears .... well, we're getting screwed by AI, so maybe it's all one. > > I haven't played like that but makes sense. My _extremely_ limited > > experiences between Windows and Linux were Linux was either faster or > > about the same. And I need to note this comparison was done decades > > ago. > KM> Back around 1998, Argo dual-booted RedHat6 and Win95. Win95 ran > KM> rings around RH6, which was at best glacial. That was my first > KM> clue that the hype wasn't all it seemed. > > Though they've found dual booting isn't that feasible. Downright not > advised of late. Back around then I did have some computers which I Not anymore, no. GRUB has its own difficulties, and my observation is that Windows since Win7 rewrites the boot sector every time you switch OSs, which is trouble begging to happen. In the long-ago I used to hang out on a forum that was largely Complain About Windows. And almost universally, the complaint "all of a sudden Windows won't boot" was followed by an admission that they were dual-booting with linux "which still works". GRUB updates and nukes the Windows boot sector, and naturally then Windows won't boot. I have not dual-booted since Argo's era, beyond some experiments not meant for prime time. > KM> Fireball (4th gen Xeon, 64GB RAM) has about 20 HDDs with various > KM> OSs. Including: > KM> Windows: XP64, Server2008R2 (Win7 server), Win10 Pro, Win11 > KM> Workstation Linux: Fedora (what it presently runs), Mageia, > KM> Devuan, Debian, Mint, others I forget. (For some unknown reason, > KM> PCLinuxOS won't run on it.) > > It's a diva?! It's too complicated. PCLinuxOS is "radically simple". > KM> There ya go. That's also why for the Win11 software I want for > KM> the future (pending an expectation that Windows will become By > KM> Subscription and basically a cloud OS) my intent is to work up a > KM> basically portable install, so if the hardware dies I can just > KM> move it to the next PC. Win10 doesn't mind this being horsed from > KM> one PC to the next (most of the time it doesn't even need > KM> reactivation), and I don't see why Win11 would care either. > > To me it seems like it should follow how we log in to sites now: doesn't > matter which device as long as the user name, password, and whatever > other authentication matches. Except they're all different companies and they don't share logins. If they did, it would be trivially easy to pirate ANY software, authentication or no. > > > .. In the English language nothing starts with 'n' and ends with 'g'. > > KM> A narrating clearly necessitating a course in remedial English, > > KM> for one who doesn't put nutmeg in their hot cocoa. But sure is > > KM> nosing around memes online....perhaps their brain suffered a > > KM> necrotizing infection. > > Did you miss 'nothing'?! > KM> By then I was nodding off. > > Frequent slurps of fresh coffee and/or tea! Tea, that's a thought.... > > > KM> https://word-lists.com/word-lists/list-of-words-starting-with-n-an > > KM> d-ending-with > > KM> g/ > > Good grief! Now I'm wondering if there is a site dedicated to words > > rhyming with 'orange'! > KM> Your wish... > KM> https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/what-rhymes-with-orange > > KM> My personal favorite is "door hinge". :D > > At least it's more usable! > > And for a side bit: > https://comicskingdom.com/rhymes-with-orange/2026-01-01 Oh, good ones! > .. Baby chick found orange in mother's coop:"Look at the orange marmalade." All wisdom is found in taglines. þ RNET 2.10U: ILink: Techware BBS þ Hollywood, Ca þ www.techware2k.com --- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462 * Origin: ILink: CFBBS | cfbbs.no-ip.com (454:1/1) .