Subj : negate the new Win11 To : Ky Moffet From : Barry Martin Date : Fri Jan 02 2026 07:53:00 Hi Ky! > > AA> Businesses should consider linux, imho. The costs could then be > > AA> less! :D > > AFAIK not required to upgrade the hardware constantly! That's a huge > > savings right there! > KM> Except when you get sued for not using supported devices. > From a causual look the 'supported devices' seem fairly generous: CPU of > at least x generation, RAM of y amount. ...Suppose that rapidly gets a > lot more specific when it comes to the motherboard, video card and > monitor, peripherals like bar code scanners..... KM> Win11's current requirement an 64bit CPU with the SSE 4.2 KM> instruction set (specifically the POPCNT function), which came in KM> with the Core2Duo. This was added as of the 22H2 release. 21H2 KM> will actually run on an earlier CPU (someone got it running on an KM> early Pentium 4, tho it was painful), but is no longer KM> "supported" (21H2 updates ended about a year ago). Well I'll admit the version releases codings didn't mean a thing to me other than identification and level, which everything has in some form. Seems to boil down to if want Microsoft support (and presumably same for Linux and other out there) need to play by their rules. KM> And despite that instruction set supposedly requiring at least a KM> Haswell Intel CPU, I can assure you current Win11 runs perfectly KM> fine on an Ivy Bridge CPU. [points at Fireball] From my limited knowledge base it would seem as long as the computer hardware met the general requirements of the OS it would run. AFAIK a 64 bit OS will not run on 32-bit hardware, so that would be the first check. As you mentioned above with the SSE thing, the instruction sets have to match. ...Keep going down the list. The more tic'd as matching the better the odds of the old machine running on the new OS. KM> So... *technically* as far back as the earliest consumer 64bit KM> multicore CPUs (that actually did 64bit; some early AMD64 CPUs KM> did not, and will only run a 32bit OS). First item on checklist! (I'm supposed to read the whole message first??!) KM> They seem to have dropped the previous specification of an i7-6th KM> gen or later. Probably because all the cheap Win11 laptops were KM> arriving with an N-series Celeron, which is about half as fast as KM> the earliest Core2Duo (but uses very little power, good for KM> battery life). And Win11 runs adequately well on those N-series KM> CPUs, despite that they're so much slower than an early Core2Duo. Sometimes trade-offs. A little slower, but great battery life -- that would be good for usage at a construction site where they don't have power outlets installed. (Heck, they bare have the walls installed!) KM> I have two netbooks and my mom's old laptop that all have KM> N-series Celerons. The netbooks (4GB RAM) have Win11, and are KM> pleasant enough; I regularly use them as portable word KM> processors. The laptop (upgraded to its 8GB RAM max and all of KM> HP's crap nuked) has Win10, and it's sluggggggish. In such poor KM> circumstances, Win11 performs better. Semi-same with my old Lenovo T61 (though running Ubuntu for compatibility). Sluggish, but for what I need it for I'll put up with that. > KM> There's where business is presently at: any device or software > KM> has to be officially supported (even if that's a third party > KM> support contract) because otherwise you open yourself to > KM> liability lawsuits. So perfectly good hardware gets replaced when > KM> it goes out of warranty support, and software by subscription was > KM> a huge relief because no more worrying about being in compliance > KM> -- THAT liability is now all on the software vendor. > The laywers are making all kinds of money! KM> There's the problem! But we know what to do with the lawyers. They're both handy and a nuisance. > KM> My sister's architecture firm (she's effectively second in > KM> command, and they have offices worldwide) won't even keep a car > KM> or a phone that's no longer under warranty. If they design a > KM> building and something goes wrong and the building falls down, > KM> even if it's NOT THEIR FAULT -- if the chain of liability lands > KM> on, say, an outdated version of AutoCAD, that is out of > KM> compliance with industry standards, and that will get them soaked > KM> in court to the tune of billions of dollars. Same with computer > KM> hardware. Or phones, or cars, or anything else. > Yes, between saving a thousand dollars for new computer stuff and > getting socked billions for keeping it I think the answer is clear: we > get to buy refurbished stuff!! KM> YES!! And so us individual end-users buy and start using the stuff the OS-people told the businesses to stop using, but yet they (OS-people) still have to semi-support the old hardware because it is capable of using the current software. So they large question (not 'big' ) is why was the old hardware forced out?! KM> churning hardware....> (Must be virtual hardware as data is just information.) KM> Cuz the bloody AI craze is why the price of RAM quadrupled KM> overnight, and why SSDs suddenly got scarce (and doubled in KM> price, and that's still rising). As with everything due to supply and demand. ....I sort of get a kick how on the game shows when reading off the list of "wow's!" for a TV they exclaim it has an AI processor. I'm thinking back in the old days one of the "AI processors" was the AGC circuit -- automatic gain control: too strong a signal, automatically trim it a bit; too strong, boost it a bit. > > The store I worked for did switch to Linux for the point of sale > > systems. After the conversion I was part of the group to open the > > registers and make sure everything looked OK. All we were told is > > there's a new system installed. ....Why does this look familiar?? > > ..Oh!!!! :) The registers did have a major boost in response! > KM> I doubt it was due to linux, which until you get to the Win10 > KM> era, generally needed more hardware under it than Windows did to > KM> have the same performance for the same task. But removing cruft, > KM> or updating the network connection..... > I'm thinking it was removal of the cruft, a portion of which was due to > switching the system from Microsoft to Linux: they had to rewrite/update > a ton of programmes which that in itself probably cleared out a bunch of > junk. I don't know the details of which Microsoft version, which Linux > version, etc., but from the looks of the boot it was an old Windows and > a reasonably new Linux. KM> Cruft and needless crapware makes a huge difference. My mom's KM> "new" (2020) laptop is an HP, and still had all the default HP KM> spywa-- er, helpers for this that and the other thing. And it ran KM> at a glacial pace -- Win10 took about ten minutes just to boot KM> up, and forget doing any real work on it. After I killed all HP's KM> crapware, it boots in about a minute and tho it's stilll KM> sluggggggggish, it's usable. Before, it was not. (Gonna be some KM> other OS in its future, once I get all my mom's stuff located and KM> archived off. But it's a touchscreen, and maxed out at 8GB RAM, KM> so its options are limited. Win11 would be better.) LIS I think most of the boost at the store was having to re-write the software, which got rid of the patched-patch which was a patch of a patch....... > KM> You hear the opposite, but I have done straight-across compares > KM> on the same hardware, multiple times. And there are distros that > KM> make Win10 look snappy... linux performance is much more > KM> constrained by hardware I/O and bus speed. Or why Win10 on > KM> spinning rust is fine, but linux on the same disk is sluggish. > I haven't played like that but makes sense. My _extremely_ limited > experiences between Windows and Linux were Linux was either faster or > about the same. And I need to note this comparison was done decades > ago. KM> Back around 1998, Argo dual-booted RedHat6 and Win95. Win95 ran KM> rings around RH6, which was at best glacial. That was my first KM> clue that the hype wasn't all it seemed. Though they've found dual booting isn't that feasible. Downright not advised of late. Back around then I did have some computers which I dual booted, though Windows-something and Ubuntu-something. I think the speeds were roughly the same, though I also know I didn't experiment between the two too much: was sort of hold on to Windows because some utilities aren't available in Ubuntu. KM> Fireball (4th gen Xeon, 64GB RAM) has about 20 HDDs with various KM> OSs. Including: KM> Windows: XP64, Server2008R2 (Win7 server), Win10 Pro, Win11 KM> Workstation Linux: Fedora (what it presently runs), Mageia, KM> Devuan, Debian, Mint, others I forget. (For some unknown reason, KM> PCLinuxOS won't run on it.) It's a diva?! > > So I have a question: what happens when one can't connect for whatever > > reason? ...Oh yeah: nothing! Just like when AWS goes down, MS 365, > > someone does an upgrade at the ISPs and crashes the system. > KM> There is the problem with all mandatory online everything, not > KM> only AI but also software as a service and product activation... > KM> what happens when there is no internet? or when the activation > KM> server dies and isn't replaced? (I'm lookin' at you, Adobe.) That > KM> is in fact a good reason to use an activation crack (when one > KM> exists) even on legit-purchased software. > Yup: had that with my old X10 utility ActiveHome Pro. Company > essentially folded (portions remained) but the call-in-to-see-if- > legitimately-registered-software portion was broken. Good news: worked > until until reboot or worked until tried to change something, I forgot > which. Someone did create a bypass. KM> There ya go. That's also why for the Win11 software I want for KM> the future (pending an expectation that Windows will become By KM> Subscription and basically a cloud OS) my intent is to work up a KM> basically portable install, so if the hardware dies I can just KM> move it to the next PC. Win10 doesn't mind this being horsed from KM> one PC to the next (most of the time it doesn't even need KM> reactivation), and I don't see why Win11 would care either. To me it seems like it should follow how we log in to sites now: doesn't matter which device as long as the user name, password, and whatever other authentication matches. > > .. In the English language nothing starts with 'n' and ends with 'g'. > KM> A narrating clearly necessitating a course in remedial English, > KM> for one who doesn't put nutmeg in their hot cocoa. But sure is > KM> nosing around memes online....perhaps their brain suffered a > KM> necrotizing infection. > Did you miss 'nothing'?! KM> By then I was nodding off. Frequent slurps of fresh coffee and/or tea! > KM> https://word-lists.com/word-lists/list-of-words-starting-with-n-an > KM> d-ending-with > KM> g/ > Good grief! Now I'm wondering if there is a site dedicated to words > rhyming with 'orange'! KM> Your wish... KM> https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/what-rhymes-with-orange KM> My personal favorite is "door hinge". :D At least it's more usable! And for a side bit: https://comicskingdom.com/rhymes-with-orange/2026-01-01 ¯ ® ¯ BarryMartin3@MyMetronet.NET ® ¯ ® .... Baby chick found orange in mother's coop:"Look at the orange marmalade." --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.47 þ wcECHO 4.2 ÷ ILink: The Safe BBS þ Bettendorf, IA þ RNET 2.10U: ILink: Techware BBS þ Hollywood, Ca þ www.techware2k.com --- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462 * Origin: ILink: CFBBS | cfbbs.no-ip.com (454:1/1) .