Subj : Re: Computer Kits To : boraxman From : Jeff Date : Mon Jan 31 2022 00:49:25 On 31 Jan 2022, boraxman said the following... bo> Je> So you're saying that passing judgment on others is ok, but having bo> Je> judgment passed on oneself for passing judgment on others is not? bo> Je> Interesting. bo> Passing judgement is fine. What you cannot do is FORCE or COERCE bo> someone. You are not entitled to make other people believe what you bo> want them to believe. Of course not. That is not at issue here. bo> You and I probably disagree politically, but I will NOT try to get you bo> fired, doxxed, exposed, or lead others who are prone to violence to your bo> personal details. Nor will I you. bo> I do not have to approve if you, nor you of me. But we have to respect bo> each others right to free expression, and to live our lives the way we bo> see fit. We can, however, publicy disagree with the other's position and make arguments for others to do likewise. bo> I don't think we disagree here. Perhaps we do. bo> Je> No one is "policing" what you think. In terms of actual "policing," y bo> Je> speech is largely protected (with a few exceptions) from legal bo> Je> consequences. In terms of metaphorical "policing," your speech is bo> Je> nowhere guaranteed to be protected from social consequences. bo> Lynch mobs is vigilante justice. Extra-judicial punishment. People are bo> policing speech by acting as if they were the state, and taking on bo> rights and responsibilities they do not have the right to take on. Are they, though? Are they imprisoning people, executing people? Or are they merely exerting social pressure? bo> Je> Only if you feel that you are entitled to a forum and an audience for bo> Je> your speech, and believe that free speech should be free of bo> Je> consequences, neither of which is true. bo> Je> Social pressure can be used for good or evil. It's how a society bo> Je> self-regulates, whether that society is a national population or a bo> Je> bowling league. bo> It is also how society stagnates, and becomes authoritarian, despotic and bo> violent. That is possible, given a particularly backwards-thinking society, but I think what we are discussing is anything but backwards-thinking. bo> In the West, we've learned through experience that freedom of expression bo> is an overall good. Supression of speech just doesn't work out well. bo> Ever. Then why are you seeking to suppress the speech of those who disagree with you? bo> It doesn't matter how 'noble' the attempt is, once people start using bo> coercion to maintain an orthodoxy, things turn south. Indeed. Look at one's own motives. bo> Je> as I'm aware, we're not talking about people being murdered for bo> Je> expressing unpopular views on social media. bo> Je> Perhaps a more appropriate example would be the blacklisting of accus bo> Je> socialists by the House Committee on Un-American Activities during th bo> Je> McCarthy era, although that was more than social pressure in that it bo> Je> the force of government behind it. bo> The same thing is going on now. AOC wanted a LIST of people who bo> supported Trump to take action against them! Neither the blacklisting bo> back then, or now, should be condoned. The issue at question is one of intent. Was the intent of these people to expand freedom, or to limit freedom? With apologies to Avon, this is the point at which the discussion veers from the hypothetical to the political. bo> Once you're making blacklists of people for beliefs, you're evil. bo> Period. Not necessarily. It depends on the beliefs. bo> Je> The cases we're dealing with don't involve this sort of evil. Compari bo> Je> boycott to, for example, the Chinese Cultural Revolution is a massive bo> Je> exaggeration. bo> I didn't compare it to the Chinese Cultural Revolution. But things could bo> turn that bad in the USA, I really do think so, because "Cancel Culture" bo> uses the same techniques and justifications. You didn't, but you do now, eh? No one has been murdered due to 21st century "cancel culture," as far as I'm aware. Jeff. --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32) * Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (21:1/180) .