Subj : Re: Windows vs Linux
To   : boraxman
From : tenser
Date : Fri Apr 22 2022 02:39:14

On 21 Apr 2022 at 10:58p, boraxman pondered and said...
 
 bo> Lets say "GNU/Linux" then.  Technically Linux is just the kernel, but
 bo> when it is referenced, it is in almost all contexts, references as the
 bo> OS, the Kernel, the GNU tools, X and other supporting software.

Perhaps that's true for hobbyists.

 bo> For people using a smartphone, it is irrelevant to them whether the
 bo> kernel is Linux or not.  Thats for the millions of millions of "Linux"
 bo> users, who could very will have the kernel swapped out for something
 bo> else, and not notice a difference.  It is also irrelevent to people
 bo> using other "appliances".  Maybe my router runs Linux, who knows.  I
 bo> don't care, why would I?

Yes, that's the point.  These things are tools.  People who
care about the interface and shell and all of that are focusing
on the tool, not the application of that tool.  Most people do
not -- and should not -- care.

 bo> For people who make a choice to use Linux for computing, they are not
 bo> choosing the kernel, they are choosing the entire OS.  They are choosing
 bo> a different GUI (or choice of GUI), package management, software repos,
 bo> price.  The kernel usually plays a small role (ability to use btrfs,
 bo> stability).
 bo> 
 bo> If Linux was just Windows with a different kernel, I wouldn't have
 bo> bothered.

So those are the sorts of superficial differences that don't
really matter.  Being a hobbyist and futzing around with window
managers and shells stuff is fine, but you can do that with many
systems.  That's really not where the focus in the Linux
community is.

 bo> Scientists (I studied science) just want to use their tools.  Fortran is
 bo> still used for climate modelling, many will use python, used for
 bo> astronomy.  Linux doesn't need futzing around.  I just installed Fedora
 bo> for my wife on a Thinkpad, and everything really does "just work".

Yup.  And those machines on the top 500 list?  I guarantee
you those nodes aren't running a window manager, or even much
of a userspace at all.  No one logs into them, so they don't
care about the tools.  In fact, most of the time you try to
keep Linux from running on the app cores in anything other than
a cursory way, so as not to interfere with the HP codes.

 bo> Linux needs to remain viable, in that it needs to be used enough to
 bo> justify investment.  The investment is paid by usability moreso than
 bo> sales.

Viable for what?  It's already ubiquitous.  The world literally
runs on Linux and the mainframe; it swept everything before it.
Whether end users run it on their desktops or laptops is mostly
irrelevant, and in any case, millions of people already do.

 bo> They aren't aware they are using Linux, and they have no freedom,
 bo> really.  Free software is about autonomy, the ability to mould and use
 bo> the software as you see fit, to create your own solutions, decide to
 bo> make things as you see fit.  Freedom doesn't come from a license, it
 bo> comes from how the software is engineered, the documentation, its
 bo> configurability.

Just running Linux on a tiny fraction of the overall computer
does not make "freedom" in the FSF sense.  You do you, but let
me know when you can see your storage device's firmware or CPU
microcode.  The next major battle in this front has shifted to
firmware, because Linux already won.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
 * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

.