Subj : Re: SSH on BBSes
To   : Spectre
From : boraxman
Date : Tue Apr 05 2022 22:48:53

-=> Spectre wrote to boraxman <=-

 bo>  Ex> Dude, this is a BBS ... you knew what was expected in 1993.  NOTHING

 Sp> He's for the most part right you want the same type of use you had of a
 Sp> BBS back in the 90's, 80's maybe even but what was public then, all be
 Sp> it to the minority computer nerd set is now on a different carriage of
 Sp> service and that makes it all the more public.  If you don't like it,
 Sp> don't use it is valid if a bit simplistic.

 bo>  Ex> your REAL  NAME on the internet.  Seriously?!   Grow up.

 Sp> Also valid, if you don't want the information out there, don't use it.
 Sp> You'll be lucky to find trace of me anywhere, I still have that
 Sp> "healthy" paranoia from 80's computer studies. All you'll find are odd
 Sp> aliases, stacked on top of other aliases.

 bo> I don't care for your snarky attitude, nor your contemptuous assertion of
 bo> the "if you are doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide" fallacy.

 Sp> Yeah I'm not a fan of that argument either.. it's a bit like a lot of
 Sp> americans no I can't quote a decent source, considering someone guilty
 Sp> of something by pleading the Fifth Amendment.  But it does put forward
 Sp> the notion if you share something, especially on any sort of public
 Sp> forum even if its reach is further than you expect, fair game. To whit,
 Sp> I share nothing.

I think there is misunderstanding about the argument.  People are taking it as
a statement of how things are now, whereas what I'm arguing is what we should
be working towards.

At the moment, there is no good cultural norms around privacy.  People will
post pictures of you at their own house-party on the internet, tag you for the
world to find you.  Or take photos of your children and do the same.  We are in
the very early stages of this new world, and haven't developed good social
norms yet, but I'm very troubled by arguments which imply that with this brand
new panopticon, we don't need to do anything different.

Part of social evolution is development of culture and norms to deal with such
issues and developments.  Technological advancement requires this.  We consider
it "normal" to have to get a license, pass a test and register your vehicle to
travel, but to anyone living in the pre-automobile age, this would have seemed,
well, unecessary.  But new technology meant new controls, new norms.

In the 19th century, people would have been horrified to be told that a device
could be put in your house, which ANYONE around the world could make ring at
anytime!  But we consider it rude to do so.

The problems of climate change have changed the morality regarding use of
fossil fuels.

So it is with the Internet.  We have a capability which didn't exist before,
and even really didn't exist with this power during the BBS's hey days.  Our
cultural norms haven't caught up, which is why everyone is so, well, scared of
posting and really cautious.  We don't know what will happen if we call each
other by our real names.

As I mentioned before, two things we can do, are to normalise the following, to
make them expectations,

1) That there are options to talk to people electronically which aren't fully
public and by default open to all

2) That when you engage in conversation, you will know what level of
privacy/exposure you have

3) That those who are custodians of these services, regardless of whether they
are private or public, honour peoples right to point number 2.
 
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