Subj : Re: Why can't Obama run on his record? To : All From : gunnerasch@gmail.com Date : Thu Jan 31 2019 19:20:06 Path: eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september ..org!news.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!mx04.eternal-septemb er.org!mx04.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!news.glorb.com!b order3.nntp.dca.giganews.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com !nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!news.giganews.com.POSTED!not-fo r-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 04:49:11 -0500 From: Gunner Asch Newsgroups: misc.survivalism,dfw.politics,az.politics Subject: Re: Why can't Obama run on his record? Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 02:48:57 -0700 Reply-To: gunnerasch@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <4j0e085ckplh3ga012aldi00vq6h6uiep1@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 588 X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com X-Trace: sv3-mVJxrwTSIF5Izus/IukNLY5VsGl/XniJGIWrjVt9QUDBaGIoC8xVOGwpwcsYTUWSQvF3SRs93RO y/k1!EBlNPjaq9SecVHnvlIZJZrwLez+sJBOVzFqxjfVSa7x6s6zj8Y0UJ8zcvUcs1fxfontAzOEU X-Complaints-To: abuse@giganews.com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 X-Original-Bytes: 21283 Xref: news.eternal-september.org misc.survivalism:20821 dfw.politics:161 az.politics:2281 On Wed, 18 Jul 2012 14:49:11 -0600, Wo Tan wrote: >On 7/18/2012 12:57 PM, ?@qmail.not wrote: >> On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 22:45:12 -0600, Wo Tan wrote: >> >>> On 7/17/2012 9:54 PM, ?@qmail.not wrote: >>>> On Mon, 16 Jul 2012 17:53:34 -0700, azjohn wrote: >>>> >>>>> Because his record sucks. >>>> >>>> Yep, you fascists wanted to put the whole nation out of work to >>>> bankrupt the nation of it's revenue. >>> >>> Hyperbolic and counter-intuitive, no one on either side wants a whole >>> nation "out of work"? >>> >> Unfortunately to those out of work, that is not true. > >Really, well please do explain for "them, or perhaps you are "them"... > >> You want them out of work and the US out of money. > >Well that's just a stupid, silly lie. I want the Clinton years back when >everything was humming along. > >I think you're cranky and need to take more naps. > >>> >>> Who pays you to regurgitate these ludicrous screeds? >>> >> Stupid remark from a stupid person. > >Look, we can both agree you're stupid, no problem there at all. > >>> >>>> Obama saved the jobs in spite of >>>> your efforts. >>> >>> At roughly 247,000$ per job "saved", 247,000 taxpayer dollars that is... >>> >> So you dream up a number and therefore it must be true? > >I never dream, I always cite: > >http://www.zerohedge.com/news/cost-obamas-stimulus-plan-312500-job-vote-create d-or-saved-and-guess-who-paying-it > >For those eager to put some math to the rhetoric coming from the White >House over the president's jobs creation plan, and that should be >everyone, here is a quick and dirty estimate based on the numbers being >thrown around of a 2% GDP increase in year 1 and 1.9 million jobs >created or saved... most saved, as in those you can't really quantify. >Said otherwise, roughly a $300 billion increase in GDP yields 1.9 >million jobs. So far so good. Now since the president is proposing to >pay for the program over 10 years, let's assume the $475 billion in >direct expenses is financed for 10 years at 2.5% which adds roughly $120 >billion to the total cost of the program. In other words, as the >calculations detailed and show below elaborate, the overall AJA plan >will cost $250,000 per job created (excluding the interest expense) and >$312,500 per union job, er job created (including interest). And that's >how much it costs for Obama to purchase one vote... created or saved. >Keynesian efficiency strikes like a Swiss watch yet again. > >http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obama-s-economists-stimulus-has-cost-27800 0-job_576014.html > >Obama’s Economists: ‘Stimulus’ Has Cost $278,000 per Job > >The stimulus is now causing the economy to shed jobs. > >The report was written by the White House’s Council of Economic >Advisors, a group of three economists who were all handpicked by Obama, >and it chronicles the alleged success of the “stimulus” in adding or >saving jobs. The council reports that, using “mainstream estimates of >economic multipliers for the effects of fiscal stimulus” (which it >describes as a “natural way to estimate the effects of” the >legislation), the “stimulus” has added or saved just under 2.4 million >jobs — whether private or public — at a cost (to date) of $666 billion. >That’s a cost to taxpayers of $278,000 per job. > >In other words, the government could simply have cut a $100,000 check to >everyone whose employment was allegedly made possible by the “stimulus,” >and taxpayers would have come out $427 billion ahead. > > >Now then, Harvard's Martin Feldstein estimated 200K$ per job, so I think >we can agree I was quite charitable by even undercutting the CEA's >official number. > > >>> >>>> You must be pissed beyond reason. >>> >>> I think anyone who saw that number was. >>> >> Anyone might be any number of your radical conservacrap friends. That >> hardly means every or any one. > >Oh I think most Americans get pretty worked up when they realize what >the alleged "stimulus" cost us. > >>> >>>> Better to be pissed >>>> off than pissed on, right comrade? >>> >>> Yes, Obama and his failed stimuli have pissed on us all. >>> >> When you wanted jobs lost and he saved them, you call it failed. We >> understand. > >He really never saved much of anything because: > >http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obama-s-economists-stimulus-has-cost-27800 0-job_576014.html > >Furthermore, the council reports that, as of two quarters ago, the >“stimulus” had added or saved just under 2.7 million jobs — or 288,000 >more than it has now. In other words, over the past six months, the >economy would have added or saved more jobs without the “stimulus” than >it has with it. In comparison to how things would otherwise have been, >the “stimulus” has been working in reverse over the past six months, >causing the economy to shed jobs. > >>> >>>> The US government is being held hostage to stop it's taxation >>>> practices. >>> >>> Oh really? >>> >> Really. > >I don't see anyone stopping me from paying my taxes, ymmv. > >>> >>> Who told them to stop collecting taxes? >>> >> No one did, yet. > >Oh, I see, "yet"? > >So then you lied. > >Granted. > >>> You're quite insane aren't you? >>> >> You're just full of stupid remarks aren't you? > >I don't make immediately idiotic and refutable lies like you do. > >>> >>>> The president does not create jobs, nor is he responsible >>>> for making them go away. >>> >>> So Bush was not to blame? Not that it matters, decisions by the >>> Executive branch have impacts on jobs, and Obama's blunders have doused >>> what could have been a nice recovery. >>> >> For whom, the rich? > >For the 16.7% without work, obviously. > >I suspect the "rich" are mostly continuing to pull in their spending and >thereby not creating as many jobs. > >Because: > >http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2010/08/05/us-economy-is-increasingly-tied-to-the- rich/ > >Well, perhaps everyone should these days. Consumer spending accounts for >roughly two-thirds of U.S. gross domestic product, or the value of all >goods and services produced in the nation. And spending by the rich now >accounts for the largest share of consumer outlays in at least 20 years. > >According to new research from Moody’s Analytics, the top 5% of >Americans by income account for 37% of all consumer outlays. Outlays >include consumer spending, interest payments on installment debt and >transfer payments. > >By contrast, the bottom 80% by income account for 39.5% of all consumer >outlays. > >>> >>>> US companies who pay the salaries are the >>>> only people that are responsible for or the lack of jobs. >>> >>> The "lack of jobs" is a result of the lack of "demand". >>> >> Bullshit. > >No, just fact. > >When folks stop consuming, things stop being made, and jobs are lost. > >> The supply for the demand isn't coming from Americans but >> is still there. > >Well that's just crazy talk, isn't it? > >So the "supply" for this "demand" you think exists is sitting where, in >whose warehouses? > >And if there is a shortage of say durable goods why haven't prices shot >up to match? > >See, you're really quite far out of your depth here. > >>> >>> Now don't you feel silly for believing US companies can purchase their >>> way back into prosperity? >>> >> What kind of drugs are you on, LSD? > >Have you stopped beating your wife? > >>> >>>> They make >>>> the decisions to move operations out of the country and they can make >>>> the decisions to bring them back. >>> >>> Oh sure, and what would you Iphone cost made here? >>> >> Try using English. > >Try explaining what a US made Iphone would cost, come on, do it. > >Oh, never mind: > >http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/why-iphones-arent-made-in-america/ > >Not long ago, Apple boasted that its products were made in America. >Today, few are. Almost all of the 70 million iPhones, 30 million iPads >and 59 million other products Apple sold last year were manufactured >overseas. > >Why can’t that work come home? Mr. Obama asked. > >Mr. Jobs’s reply was unambiguous. “Those jobs aren’t coming back,” he >said, according to another dinner guest. > >The president’s question touched upon a central conviction at Apple. It >isn’t just that workers are cheaper abroad. Rather, Apple’s executives >believe the vast scale of overseas factories as well as the flexibility, >diligence and industrial skills of foreign workers have so outpaced >their American counterparts that “Made in the U.S.A.” is no longer a >viable option for most Apple products. > >And why does cost matter? > >Let's take the popular Ipad: > >http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/05/how-much-would-the-ipad-2- cost-if-it-were-made-in-the-us-about-1-140/238508/ > >How Much Would the iPad 2 Cost If It Were Made in the U.S.? About $1,140 > >>> >>> it's about competing globally, or maybe you're one of those Hyundai >>> driving liberal hypocrites... >>> >> America can't compete globally and shouldn't have to. > >What a fascinating bit of head in sand-ism. > >To the first point: > >http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/why-iphones-arent-made-in-america/ > >Another critical advantage for Apple was that China provided engineers >at a scale the United States could not match. Apple’s executives had >estimated that about 8,700 industrial engineers were needed to oversee >and guide the 200,000 assembly-line workers eventually involved in >manufacturing iPhones. The company’s analysts had forecast it would take >as long as nine months to find that many qualified engineers in the >United States. > >In China, it took 15 days. > >Companies like Apple “say the challenge in setting up U.S. plants is >finding a technical work force,” said Martin Schmidt, associate provost >at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. In particular, companies >say they need engineers with more than high school, but not necessarily >a bachelor’s degree. Americans at that skill level are hard to find, >executives contend. “They’re good jobs, but the country doesn’t have >enough to feed the demand,” Mr. Schmidt said. > > >To the latter - then we FAIL and invert, much as the Communist USSR did. > >Sorry, with NAFTA, GATT, CAFTA,etc. and currency alliances like the EU, >we're not able to return to isolationism as a national policy, too bad, >quite a bit sad in fact...but still a fact. > >>> >>>> Taxes have been cut though it's >>>> obviously not enough to satisfy the greedy. >>> >>> You mean the unemployed? Yes, those greedy workers, the heck with them... >>> >> Of course not. The greedy are the wealthy. The unemployed are the >> needy. You wouldn't understand that. > >The "unemployed" are drugged into stasis by unending unemployment checks. > >The wealthy have no need to be greedy as they already have theirs. > >See how that works... > >>> >>>> So they put us out of work >>>> thereby cutting down on the nation's revenue. >>> >>> They did? >>> >> You know that. > >No, I do not. > >> If no one is working, no one is paying taxes. > >But you just claimed (erroneously btw) that 90% of us ARE working, so >which is it? You can't have both sides of the highway at once you know. > >> You rich bastards don't. > >Aw is that some green-eyed jealousy I hear from you? > >You're breaking my heart. > >>> >>> The corporations control demand? >>> >> Do they? > >No, they certainly do not. > >They respond to demand. > >Do yourself a favor - buy an econ 101 text book, spend quality time >reading it. > >>> >>> Seriously? >>> >>> Lol. >>> >>>> And China is not the >>>> enemy, Corporate America is. >>> >>> Your illucidity is stunning - neither one are "the enemy", and for you >>> to hate those who employ Americans is sickening. >>> >> You can pull that bullshit on an idiot not here. > >Which idiot did you have in mind? I still have you to try and wake up. > >>> >>>> In fact China is in bad shape right now, >>>> a victim of its successes as the US is. >>> >>> China can deal with their own problems, stop torching straw men off. >>> >> Heheh, you're crazy. > >Nope, I'm a realist. > >I want our problems fixed, they can worry with their own. > >>> >>>> What will China do when >>>> corporate leaves them hanging high and dry? >>> >>> Why would "corporate" do that? It's still a global market, do try and >>> have a good think about how things work, won't you? >>> >> 50˘/hr was ok for awhile. Now they need 25˘/hr. When corp can find it >> they'll leave. > >There is more to life than manufacturing, in fact there is a very key >growth segment to this economy involving SERVICE (driven by aging >boomers), and you can't outsource health care jobs. > >>> >>>> The Corps are being >>>> careful; for if they go too far, the economy might crash but with over >>>> 90% of the people still workin; doubt there is any chance of that. >>> >>> But of course that many are not working, as real unemployment (U6) is >>> hovering near 16.7% >>> >> Can you make up that crap without your drugs? > >I think you are up way past your nap time: > >http://portalseven.com/employment/unemployment_rate_u6.jsp > >http://www.wnd.com/2012/02/real-unemployment-rate-22-5/ > >For instance, in Table A-15, titled “Alternative measures of labor >underutilization,” the BLS reports what is known as “U6 unemployment.” >U6 unemployment includes those marginally attached to the labor force >and the “under-employed,” those who have accepted part-time jobs when >they are really looking for full-time employment. > >While the BLS was reporting seasonally adjusted unemployment in January >2012 at only 8.3 percent, it was also reporting U6 seasonally adjusted >unemployment in January 2012 was 15.1 percent. > >The only measure BLS reports to the public as the official monthly >unemployment rate is the seasonally adjusted U3 number. > >http://bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t15.htm > >June >2012 > >15.1 > >>> >>>> In the meantime, they blame the President and liberal democrats for all >>>> our woes while unemployment drains the nation's bank account and our >>>> government tries to compensate with extended benefits. >>> >>> Great observation, with those out of work and on perennial unemployment >>> where is the incentive to FIND A JOB? >>> >> Incentive is meaningless when there are no jobs. > >Oh but there are, there really are! > >They just require a bit more gumption and training than this nation has >any more. > >http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/12/02/on-job-hunt-manufacturing-jobs-readily-av ailable-with-no-skilled-workers-to/ > >Anyone who tells you the jobs just aren’t out there, has not spoken with >the employers at Excel Foundry and machine in Pekin, Illinois. That >company is trying to expand but is having difficulty. > >Excel says the reason for this is because recruiters cannot fill the job >vacancies. Yes, you read that right, they can not fill the vacancies. > >“We’re absolutely frustrated, we’re doing everything we can to attract >employees we desperately need right now,” says Doug Parsons with Excel. > >The catch is that Excel, like many U.S. manufacturers, is looking to >hire skilled workers. That means tradesmen with training like welders, >pipe fitters and machinists. That is where the problem lies. > >For most Americans while in their high school years, the pressure was on >to go to college and get a degree. Trade schools were looked at as a >back up plan for those who did not excel. > >Larry Sarff with Morton Industries says, “One of the problems in finding >people is the perception that manufacturing is a dying art and that jobs >are not going to be there because they're being sent overseas.” > >In fact, the department of labor says there are four million fewer >people working in skilled labor positions today than there were 20 years >ago. > >So companies like Excel are turning to the high schools and trying to >change the perception of a career in the trades. > >“Most people when they think about engineering think about dark dirty >grungy dead end type jobs. That's not what we're talking about. We're >talking about high tech jobs,” Says Parsons. > >Big companies are putting on job fairs and conventions. They put teens >on busses and explain to them the potential of long term employment at a >pay rate up to 80 thousand dollars per year. > >>> >>> Gone. >>> >> Right to some foreign country, yep. > >Not forever, all we need is more vo-tech education and training. > >Remember, you can't outsource a plumber, welder, framer, mason, or >electrician... > >>> >>> But there's plenty of time to watch TV and eat government cheese. >>> >> One of the reasons you want to dry up the cheese and everything else >> with it? > >Stop being silly. > >I would like to see our government quit dropping high carb food bombs on >native Americans though. > >>> >>>> Sooner or later >>>> they will win and all of those items corporate America wants to get >>>> rid of will be gone, SS, M&M. >>> >>> Your hysteria is getting the better of you again, if indeed there is >>> such a thing. >>> >> Does your brain know what your lips are saying? > >Are you practicing that in the mirror? > >>> >>>> The current government is making things >>>> worse by trying to keep up with its obligations >>> >>> Lol! >>> >>> So really after all the hypocritical accusations it turns out it's YOU >>> that favors a massive credit default. >>> >> Either you are playing stupid or just plain stupid. > >No, you got caught by your own emotion-driven rhetoric, oh well... > >> That happens to >> people who speak without realizing what they are saying. > >So take a breath, pace yourself. > >>> >>> Lol, it is to laugh! >>> >>>> but sooner or later >>>> they won't be able to, the deficits will be really out of sight. >>> >>> Oh no kidding the tab on Obama-care alone will spike them so far his 5 >>> trillion $$$ monument to economic unreality will look like chump change. >>> >> Still making up numbers you know nothing about? > >Are you denying his 5 trillion$ in NEW deficits? > >Need some cites? > >> Whatever it is, we need it. > >No, we really do NOT need to default, sorry. > >>> >>>> The >>>> worst part of all this is there is nothing us little people can do >>>> about it. >>> >>> You're not one of the "little people", in fact you're a paid shill. >>> >> Nope, just someone who can see through the shit you people are >> throwing around. > >You can't even grasp very basic economics, it's pretty laughable what >you're keying here. > >>> >>>> You fascists win and the American people lose, Comrade. You >>>> must be so proud of yourselves. >>> >>> Your handlers are all Marxists, aren't they? >>> >> are you finished making stupid remarks, comrade? >> Good. > >Are you finished being a"komrade", Marxist? > >Make it so. Very very well stated Gunner, owner Coyote Engineering Machine Tool repair and service Plant electrical, air, hydraulics Factory set ups and shut downs (unfortunately too many of the latter) -- "I was eating breakfast with my 13-year-old granddaughter and I asked her, "What day is the 20th of February?" She said "It's President's Day!" (She is a smart kid.) I asked "What does President's Day mean?" I was waiting for something about Washington or Lincoln .... etc. She replied, "President's Day is when President Obama steps out of the White House, and if he sees his shadow we have one more year of unemployment." You know, it hurts when hot coffee spurts out your nose..." --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1 * Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013) .