Subj : Notice To : Nicholas Boel From : mark lewis Date : Tue Feb 18 2014 09:06:41 On Tue, 18 Feb 2014, Nicholas Boel wrote to mark lewis: ml> that would only be due to the ascii graphic logo thing and that it ml> gets broken all to hades on systems that wrap the (supposedly) plain ml> ascii text descriptions... NB> The "ascii graphic logo thing" that contains *only* normal ASCII NB> symbols? Which some of those same symbols are used in the NB> fileid.txt spec as an example? yes... that logo that has spacing formatting which the spec defines as not desirable... and that because of the wrapping that some systems do with the descriptions due to the sysops' choices in how they want the descriptions displayed ontheir systems... NB>> This is why this all started in the first place, correct? ml> no sir... not that i'm aware of... there are quite a few that do the ml> same thing... agoranet is not and has not been singled out AFAIK... NB> This started because I offered up my services to hatch out network NB> information packs (unaltered) to others (like me) that were NB> threatened with not distrobuting their files(s) because they NB> contain STANDARD ASCII characters in them, which the file_id.diz NB> spec clearly shows in use as an example. sorry but no... this all started in another echo and then came here when robert posted his message which you apparently took umbrage to... NB> If one person that moderates one FDN is going to threaten others NB> with non-distrobution because they can't figure out how to hatch NB> something properly, I'll offer an easier solution with no threats. NB> One person's faults is another person's gain. *shrug* no one person moderating one FDN threatened anyone... the decision to attempt enforcement again was made higher up than that my concensus of the members of the network doing the distributing... it was not one FDN area person... [trim] ml> no one ever singled you or your software out, nick... let's not get ml> too defensive here, ok? ;) NB> Sorry, but you jumped on my case because I offered to hatch out i did not jump your case, nick... as i stated before, all i've tried to do was to explain robert's post and the whys behind it... nothing more... anything else read into that is a huge misunderstanding and misreading of my post(s) on this subject... [trim] ml> FWIW: allfix uses template files where you can specify and define what ml> fields appear where and how long they are to be... NB> If Allfix had a Linux version, I'm sure I would have used it by NB> now. do you not run any DOS doors on your system? allfix should be able to run just like they are... all it needs is access to the PKTs or MSG netmail area as well as the files areas... [trim] NB> My BBS seems to display all of these file_id.diz's just fine over NB> here as well. I'm definitely not seeing the same issue you are. then maybe you or your software have figured out how to handle CP437 characters without them being translated when other CPs are being used... NB> Still not seeing a problem with the DIZ or LDESC fields, or how NB> it's displayed on my BBS or archives.thebbs.org either. You NB> targetted me by replying to my offering to hatch out files on i never targetted you, nick... i replied to your reply because you didn't seem to understand the original request and why it was made in the first place... nothing more... [trim] ml> no one is asking you to change them... NB> So this entire thread was some kind of rant because you can't read NB> "fancy logos" created with ASCII characters? hell no... as i've stated several times, i am/was trying to explain the problem to you but all you seem to want to do is look at your system and use it to justify causing others' systems' files areas to look like crap because someone wants to draw fancy stuff in their file descriptions... [trim] ml>> do you see the problem now? NB>> Yep. It messes up when ANSI control codes are used. ml> there was no ansi codes in there at all! NB> Ah, you're right. No ANSI codes because it was saved as block NB> ASCII, which are characters above 128, which is where the problem NB> lies. right... and those using spacing to format ascii characters to form a type of logo drawn with ascii characters... ml> [trim] NB>> Oh, and by the way.. every one of those ASCII pictures you posted NB>> above that DID display exactly how they should have, ml> they were not displayed exactly as they should have been /because/ ml> some characters were converted *before* i copied and pasted them in to ml> the message... NB> Then you didn't provide good enough examples. When they were pasted NB> here (besides the two bottom ones that were obviously >128 and NB> converted to complete garbage), they looked fine. i gave you the links to a web site so you could look at them directly and see how they appeared on the web site... of course pasting them in here is going to result them not being mashed together because this is a monospace medium... [trim] ml>> this is one of the problem points being brought up to be ml>> solved... NB>> Solved how? By not releasing it at all? ml> no... solved by using the 7-bit a-zA-Z0-9 and symbol characters... NB> Wait.. So now there's nothing wrong with my file_id.diz for NB> Agoranet? What you mention in the above sentence is all it has NB> ever contained. I wouldn't create a file_id.diz with ASCII >128. other than the spaced out formatting, the characters used are ok although not specifically within the realm of what the spec was trying to convey... ml> i've said what needed to be said and i'm not going to ml> argue or debate or similar about it any more... it isn't worth all the ml> crap... the spec is easily read and understood... logos and the like ml> simply don't belong in the description of a file on a bbs -=BECAUSE=- ml> "you" (inclusive) cannot control how others display those descriptions ml> and surely "you" (inclusive) want "your" (inclusive) files' ml> descriptions to be legible in any format... think about that instead ml> of the artistry involved and trying to pretty things up... NB> Some people enjoy some artistry in their lives. Then again, some NB> don't. that's beside the point, nick... i, too, like looking at the logos and drawings but not in file descriptions where they are mostly illegible and end up mashed together on systems that don't have the capabilities of your system or mine... NB> So logos and the like simply don't belong because Mark Lewis can't NB> read them and says so. Mmkay. Point made, and ignored. i'm not the only one, nick... you certainly have a way of flipping things around and seeing them in a way not intended... *I* didn't originate the complaints this time... the complaints have been made numerous times over the last three decades... each time, things get cleaned up and are better for a while and then they slide again... )\/(ark One of the great tragedies of life is the murder of a beautiful theory by a gang of brutal facts. --Benjamin Franklin --- FMail/Win32 1.60 * Origin: (1:3634/12.71) .