Subj : RIPE to run out of IPv4 this week? To : Michiel van der Vlist From : Andre Grueneberg Date : Wed Aug 22 2012 21:48:20 Hi Michiel Michiel van der Vlist schrieb: AG>> Well, only calls from fixed to fixed are cheaper ... MvdV> And a LOT cheaper they are. Factor five to ten. Agreed. AG>> all other combinations are cheaper with the mobile phone. MvdV> That depends. A call from my fixed line to a cell phone in The MvdV> netherlands is still cheaper than calling from my cell phone to MvdV> another cell phone. 8 ct/min vs 20 ct/min. Germany: 9¢/min mobile vs. ~13-19¢/min fixed. AG>> Fixed line phones only make sense as long as people use copper for AG>> DSL. As soon as DSL users get their internet via TV cable or via FTTx, AG>> we're talking about VoIP anyway ... MvdV> Eh... I have dumped classic POTS + DSL in favour of all via cable MvdV> some six years ago. Well, cable only became more popular in Germany lately when they started to offer "up to 100 MBps" ... not mentioning the upstream which is darn slow. MvdV> One of the lines of my analog PABX is connected to a Motorola MvdV> SBV5120E cable modem. That is considered a fixed line here. When MvdV> I made the change, I kept my telephone number. Yep, here too ... lately it's hard to get proper phone lines ... it's rather DSL/cable/LTE + VoIP. Only some carriers still offer proper analog or ISDN. MvdV> The other line of my PABX is connected to a Linksys PAP2T VOIP MvdV> to amalog convertor. Is that a fixed line? Debatable. I /use/ it MvdV> as a fixed line. Yep ... hard to decide. You could use the account, configure it on your smartphone and use it whereever you've got internet. AG>> and as this is the same as what mobile is heading for (see VoLTE) ... AG>> there is no difference in technology anymore. MvdV> It is a lot cheaper though... This difference will vanish. Here they're offering LTE for fixed line replacement ... roundabout the same price as a fixed line. Having a fixed line number, making VoIP (not VoLTE, i.e. no inter-system handover) over it. AG>> At least in Germany the trend is phone flatrates. It started in fixed AG>> net, but nowadays you can get your all-net flat (to any German fixed AG>> or mobile number) for mobile phone from ~20 EUR per month. I cannot AG>> get this price in a fixed line contract. MvdV> Flatrates are only of interest to people who make a lot of calls. I thought the same ... until a non-flatrate contract was only available for the same price as a (fixed network) flatrate. Things have changed -- this was ~2007. AG>> So times of "fixed is cheaper than mobile" are over ... at least in AG>> Germany and some northern european countries I know of. MvdV> It all depends on your profile. For met that is certainly not MvdV> true. Yet.. With our specific profile with a tendency to comfort, it's not true either ... having a mother-in-law abroad, wanting to be reachable by her on the mobile phone with no additional charges for her. [I know -- very specific use cases] AG>> Latest with the advent of AMR-WB in mobile phones (and operators), AG>> people will turn away from traditional 3.1kHz fixed line phones ... MvdV> I have turned away from them over half a decade ago. But I still MvdV> use my 20? year old Samsung KP206 analog PABX... Which only supports 3.1kHz ... MvdV> We will see. The cordless phone that could do both DECT and GSM MvdV> was not a success. Private pico cells for GSM did not come off MvdV> the ground either. At least for UMTS they're starting it in Germany, very slowly. For GSM the situation is rather complex, regarding the spectrum in use. MvdV> we will see. The fact is that radio spectrum is a limited and MvdV> scarse resource. There is just one of it. Cable.. in whatever MvdV> form - copper or glass - is scalable, you can always lay another MvdV> one next to it. So "fixed" bandwidth will always be cheaper in MvdV> the end. That's what I said ... fixed will remain ... to transport IPv6 (to get back to the topic). It will not be available everywhere though. MvdV>>> Really? Can you still get ink for it? AG>> Kyocera FS-1750 ... even original toner is still available. MvdV> At what price? Similar to the one ~10 years ago. AG>> I agree for ISDN, but not for fax. Fax will survive as long as people AG>> have fixed line phones. MvdV> Fax was designed for classic analog telephony. Which is on the MvdV> way out. It is Next Generation network now. the customer will get MvdV> a box with one or two RJ11 connectors into which he cam plug an MvdV> analog telephone, but beyond that is is VOIP. Invisible to the MvdV> end user, but VOIP it is. Classic fax - and classic modem - does MvdV> not work well with VOIP. And that's why (almost) all VoIP ATAs implement T.38. CU Andre E-Mail: andre@grueneberg.de --- timEd/Linux 1.11.b6 * Origin: Testing timed/Linux (2:2411/525) .