Subj : from Russian again
To   : Roy Witt
From : Ardith Hinton
Date : Fri Mar 02 2018 18:00:57

Hi, Roy!  Recently you wrote in a message to Ardith Hinton:

 RW>>   Russian cosmonaunt: They're just looking for the last
 RW>>   drop in their Vodka bottle.

 ak>>>  What a love for astronomy!" Russian cosmonaunt: "They
 ak>>>  just drink straight from the bottles."


 AH>    Hmm.  I wonder who else can find the spelling error
 AH>    which Roy copied from Alexander's joke... probably
 AH>    without retyping... and which I didn't notice until
 AH>    just now?

                               [...]

RW>  A perfect example of assuming that the msger knows how
RW>  to translate and spell a native term.


          Ah, well... you know what some folks say about a$$uming!  Translation 
is as much an art as it is a science....  ;-)

          AFAIC Alexander posts these jokes as exercises in translation, on the 
understanding that there may be a few rough spots, and invites suggestions from 
other readers as to possible improvements.  It's a long-standing tradition here 
in ENGLISH_TUTOR for the regulars to post their own translations & ask directly 
or indirectly for help.  I a$$ume when Alexander posts such items that he would 
like us to proofread his work, even if he neglected to say "F2EP"... [chuckle].



RW>  I should have used the English term of 'astronaut' instead.


          As native speakers of English you & I would probably say "astronaut". 
Although some sources define "cosmonaut" simply as "astronaut", the majority of 
my usual references define it as "a Russian astronaut".


_ _ _ O / _ _ C_U_T_ H_E_R_E_ _ _ _
      O \

             * There's a wonderful example of the power & beauty of the English 
language, IMHO.  While we cheerfully adopt new words from all over the place we 
don't abandon the old ones.  Either way "-naut", meaning "sailor"... which came 
to us & to Alexander via the ancient Greeks... has the same spelling.  When one 
has made the connection derivatives like "nautical" are fairly straightforward.

_ _ _ O / _ _ C_U_T_ H_E_R_E_ _ _ _
      O \


          "Astronaut" is certainly in more common use where I come from.  It is 
less specific than "cosmonaut", and thus we may have to qualify it sometimes... 
but I wouldn't go so far as to say "cosmonaut" is incorrect.  I guess Alexander 
is more familiar with the Russian word.  Okay.  When a Russian author is poking 
fun at his own countrymen he may not make the same stylistic decisions you or I 
would.  It's important to identify the narrator as Russian so everyone else can 
relax & enjoy the story without looking for hidden razor blades and/or worrying 
about who might say "Egad, Sir!  You've besmirched the hono(u)r of my country!" 
as we've seen people do in other echoes... [wry grin].

          The advantage of using "astronaut" is that there is no confusion over 
what the author meant; the disadvantage is that we may need to use at least one 
more word to indicate the country.  OTOH, the advantage of using "cosmonaut" is 
its economy; the disadvantage is that it may mean different things to different 
people.  If a cosmonaut = a Russian astronaut, "Russian cosmonaut" is a serious 
redundancy which I'd (basically) treat as an error.  Until there's more general 
agreement as to the definition of "cosmonaut", however, I'll let it pass.  :-))


BTW...

          I enjoyed this discussion & I hope other folks did too.  Thankyou for 
bringing the matter to my attention, at any rate....  :-)




--- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
 * Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)

.