Subj : King, Sherlock Holmes and a verb ;)
To   : alexander koryagin
From : Ardith Hinton
Date : Fri Mar 02 2018 18:00:57

Hi, Alexander!  Recently you wrote in a message to All:

ak> In a novel "A SCANDAL IN BOHEMIA" about Sherlock Holmes, by Sir
ak> Arthur Conan Doyle, I've read this:

ak> =========Beginning of the citation==============
ak>     "On  the  contrary,  my  dear  sir," cried the King; "nothing
ak> could be more  successful. I know that her word is inviolate. The
ak> photograph is now as safe as if it were in the fire."
ak>     "I am glad to hear your Majesty say so."
ak>     "I  am  immensely  indebted  to  you.  Pray  tell me in what way
ak> I can reward  you.  This ring-" He slipped an emerald snake ring
ak> from his finger and held it out upon the palm of his hand.
ak>     "Your  Majesty  has  something which I should value even more
ak> highly," said Holmes.

ak> =========The end of the citation================


ak> It seems something strange:

ak> 1. I am glad to hear your Majesty _say_ so. (I'd write "says or
ak> said")


          How about "I'm glad to hear you say so, Mr. President?" or "I'm glad 
to hear you, i.e. Alexander Koryagin, or [him/her/it/them] say so?"

          When in doubt I often find it helpful to use substitute words and/or 
change the word order.  The infinitive may be confusing there, but IMHO Holmes 
can be trusted to speak English correctly in view of the time & place....  ;-)

          Another example, which Dallas & I observed in the TV news just after 
we'd received your message:  an old brick building in Vancouver was demolished 
because it was considered to be unsafe & the necessary repairs would have been 
prohibitively expensive.  The owner of the property was hoping to sell it to a 
developer.  Over a year has now elapsed & no prospective buyers have appeared. 
Meanwhile, the rubble which was not properly dealt with has attracted hundreds 
of rats.  Scientists from a local university caught fifteen of them in one day 
with just one trap, and they're having a great time determining whether or not 
we have cause for concern about a 21st century equivalent of the Black Plague. 
The reason I am relating this long & sordid tale, however, pertains to the use 
of a similar grammatical construction.  When residents of the neighbourhood... 
i.e. folks who are almost certainly at a much lower level on the socioeconomic 
spectrum than the hero of Sir Arthur's tales... are asked for their opinion on 
the subject a typical response is "I'd like to see the city clean it up & send 
the bill to the owner."  IOW this usage still persists on the Wet Coast of BC, 
thousands of miles away & a century later, even among folks who are neither as 
intelligent nor as well-educated as the fictional person in your example.  :-)



ak> 2. Your  Majesty  _has_  something...


          Makes sense to me.  I have something, you (singular) have something, 
he/she/it has something.  We have something, you (plural) have something, they 
have something.  If Holmes wasn't asking a favour it would be quite acceptable 
to use "Sir" after the initial "Your Majesty"... or it would be nowadays.  But 
21st century monarchs say things like "my husband & I" whereas in your example 
we are dealing with a more formal era.  It seems to me "Your Majesty" is being 
treated grammatically as third person singular... or maybe the vocative case I 
heard about in Latin class is still used in English, but nobody ever explained 
it to me that way!  Once again about all I can add is that I've run across the 
same usage in various books which originated during the past 400+ years.  :-))



ak> It means that in the first sentence it must be "says"?


          No, but I'm still wondering whether the infinitive may be the source 
of confusion.  The infinitive in English can perform various roles... e.g.

            To be, or not to be:  That is the question.  (noun)

            To err is human; to forgive, divine.  (adjective)


And to make matters worse, "to" may be omitted on occasion... e.g.

            I'd like to dance and tap my feet
            But they won't keep in rhythm

[This is a song.  It's not formal English.  The composer(s) wanted the line to 
scan with the correct number of syllables... and I agree with their decision.]




--- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
 * Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)

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