Subj : Re: Dell 780 Problem: To : All From : nospam@needed.invalid Date : Thu Jan 31 2019 19:16:28 Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.o rg!news.mixmin.net!aioe.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Paul Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem: Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2017 22:09:52 -0500 Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server Lines: 181 Message-ID: References: <7f18b466-63df-408a-bab7-4c3213a16544@googlegroups.com> <8345d835-0287-455c-97b6-6237156b2d5b@googlegroups.com> <6aefd384-fdc4-4307-9162-6ac9652ff82e@googlegroups.com> <52a963b5-0fd8-4fc6-a06d-6c794f9f9d34@googlegroups.com> <5adc8f35-d3ba-40e2-afb6-75eee5281637@googlegroups.com> <18183a02-24d7-4fa2-ab77-fac986c26fec@googlegroups.com> <235c4733-0fdc-4e34-8f87-ea020adb1fd5@googlegroups.com> <49d3c40f-ab2a-4cd0-b879-b39151b0d18a@googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 6f01JIZFnClvVQ7S6kfAgw.user.gioia.aioe.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: abuse@aioe.org User-Agent: Ratcatcher/2.0.0.25 (Windows/20130802) X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.8.2 Xref: feeder.eternal-september.org microsoft.public.windowsxp.general:134730 Mark Twain wrote: > Let's max out the 780,.. the only thing > we did when I got it was add a video card > I believe. > > Could this be it? I had it bookmarked. > > https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130635 > > Since were going to max out the DIMMS is > there anything else I should do? Like add > another fan? (a quiet one) > > I presently have it sitting on the floor > (on a board) do you think I should raise it > for better airflow? The 8500 is sitting on top > of my old 486 tower I use as a pedestal base > and painted it black. It brings the 8500 at the > perfect level to the desk. The 780 is next to > it. > > Since were going to max out the 780,.. $150 - $200 > do we need to continue the DIMM tests? Should > I run the test for all the new DIMMS? > > I'll let you select the new DIMMS as if it were your > computer and go with your choice as I did with selecting > the Dell 780. > > Once you give me your selection I'll buy it when I can > and then let you know,.. > > Many Thanks, > Robert Well, you know the spec for what you've got, and that the Dell info said DDR3-1066/1333. Which DIMM speeds it might use, might depend on the CPU FSB. Third-party motherboards running a Q45 Northbridge (which houses the memory controller), would allow other choices for memory divider and could run at a different speed as a result. CT25664BA1067.M8FR DDR3-1066 (PC3-8500) CL7 UDIMM 240 pin First the chipset info. Now, what this means is, at the time of release, the Q45 chipset supported 16GB max on DDR2 designs and 8GB max on DDR3 designs. Intel errs on the conservative side when it releases this info, which is a shame. It should instead be "honest" that capabilities exist, and simply say "we haven't tested the 16GB config yet". Which would be fine by me and would reduce my apprehension level. https://s7.postimg.org/3yuujdaor/chipset_info.gif People are confused by this here. https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/t/603198/dell-optiplex-780-dt-16gb-ram- issue-conflicting-information/ One of the links they reference, is this one. Page 9 says "Yes, you can have 4x4GB DDR3 on the 780". That means Intel actually supported it, but Intel was not able to test or say much else when Q45 was released. But, the Dell info neglects to mention an important detail, which is single-sided versus double-sided RAM. The Dell info works when the DIMM is double-sided at the 4GB density point. Probably at the point in time Dell released this information, that's the only kind of DIMM available for this purpose. http://i.dell.com/sites/content/business/solutions/engineering-docs/en/Document s/optiplex-780-tech-guide.pdf One of the links referenced from Bleepingcomputer, takes you here. The people here don't necessarily know what they're doing either. Except the guy here recommended getting the RAM from Crucial. The difficult part, is finding a picture of the Crucial product, to make sure it's double sided. http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/desktop/f/3514/t/19460832 The Crucial DDR3L-1600 is double sided and has chips on both sides. In the DDR3 generation, some sticks came out (I own a bunch), where the 4GB DIMM is single sided and the 8GB DIMM is double sided. Those are 4Gbit per silicon die, whereas the value outside of the Q45 spec is to use 2Gbit per silicon die. The reason the Crucial is working, is the config is a lower density than some others you could buy. The industry no longer makes 2Gbit chips, and instead the DDR3 market is flooded with 4Gbit chips. That means there will be a *lot* of single-sided 4GB DIMM products attempting to trick you into purchase. So while the GSkill are cute, with their heatspreader and all, they might not work on the Optiplex 780. Whereas the Crucial ones might. It's too bad we cannot see the other side of these in the following advert, to verify they're double sided (and hence, "low density") in the picture. If only Crucial would include pictures of both sides for our convenience. But these are the ones to buy. Two sets if you want 16GB DDR3 on Optiplex 780. ************************************************************** * * $76 a set, buy two sets for four sticks. Your price in USD * may differ, as some web pages are location-sensitive. * * http://www.crucial.com/usa/en/optiplex-780-mini-tower/CT7339272 * ************************************************************** I tried Kingston.com and they don't list any entry for the Optiplex 780. I looked at datasheets for three of their ValueRAM products, and they're single sided. So Kingston didn't put these in their list for the 780, even though they would fit in the DIMM socket and all. Kingston makes the shopping process easier, by providing this info, but then again, Kingston doesn't have any lower density ones for sale. These Kingston products would be based on the (readily available) 4Gbit silicon dies. (Non-candidates, do not use) https://www.kingston.com/dataSheets/KVR13N9S8K2_8.pdf https://www.kingston.com/dataSheets/KVR16LN11_4.pdf https://www.kingston.com/dataSheets/KVR16N11S6_2.pdf So what happens when you plug in the Crucial ? Crucial spec DDR3L-1600 CAS11 1.35V Opti 780 DDR3-1066 CAS7 or CAS8 depending 1.5V The memory will run at the chipset limit, which is 1066. The BIOS gets to compute the CAS, and the value is 7.32. If I had the SPD table for the RAM, I would be better able to decide whether the actual allowed value is rounded to 7 or to 8. Your current memory is CAS7 for comparison. The new memory could be CAS7 (faster) or CAS8 (slower) when it gears down to the lower clock speed of 1066. And yes, when the memory arrives, you test it. Procedure: 1) Shut down machine. Unplug. Use antistatic strap which is clipped to bare metal on the computer chassis. I use an I/O screw for my antistatic strap. 2) Remove old RAM. Store in antistatic bag. Insert new RAM, making sure it "clicks" and is fully seated. Check that the gold contacts are "hidden" by the socket, using a flashlight. 3) Plug in computer. Switch on. If the POST screen is visible, it'll report 16GB. If the wrong density of RAM is used (GSkill sticks), it would only show 8GB. Half the memory is detected if you use a high density stick. 4) *Only* boot the machine with the memtest CD at first. *Don't* boot to Windows first thing. You want to make sure the RAM passes memtest before you think of booting Windows. Note that, even when a computer passes memtest, the RAM can still be bad. I had one poster, who got a pass on memtest, but Windows was corrupted on boot. So it does happen. I normally run Prime95 from a Linux LiveCD as my second test case after memtest, but I don't expect you to want to do something like that. Maybe some day, someone will figure out a way to package both tests into the same CD. But that possibility isn't here today to the best of my knowledge. HTH, Paul --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1 * Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013) .