Subj : WWIII To : BOB KLAHN From : Lee Lofaso Date : Sat Jul 05 2014 22:36:01 Hello Bob, [..] AK>> It is not pro-Russian forces are fighting AK>> in eastern Ukraine. It is the Russian people who always AK>> lived there, in eastern and southern Ukraine, and they were AK>> extremely insulted when pro-western rebels removed their AK>> candidate (Yanukovich, who won democratic elections) from AK>> power. BK> Being insulted is not ground for shooting up the place, and BK> killing people. It is not grounds for seizing power. Now, how BK> many Russian people live there? And why are Russians living in BK> Ukraine and claiming the right to decide who rules the country? Who has. the right to decide who gets to stay and who must leave? Palestinians claim Israelis stole their land. And they are right. Many Pales"tinians have been displaced, and forced to live in refugee camps as "stateless" citizens. The land belongs to the original inhabitants. And yet other peoples from far away were allowed to settle and literally steal that land from the proper owners. Of course, we did much the same thing in regards to Native Americans, forcing them to live on reservations which we had so conveniently set aside for them. Hell, we were so damned nice to Injuns that we denied them the right to vote - until Bill Clinton took office. And now look at what they are doing to us. Those same Injuns are taking us to court in order to keep our oil companies from fracking on the land that we gave them to live on! AK>> Rebels in Kiev were minority, but they captured AK>> power by force, violating all democratic institutions and AK>> election results. BK> By force? It seems most of the force was used against them. BK> According to what I have seen, the constitution was rewritten BK> after Yonukovych took power, not by a constitutional convention BK> or such, but by the courts. The protestors started out demanding BK> the previous constitution be reinstated. BK> ---------------------------------------------------------------- BK> http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-25182830 Britons are masters of deceipt. Notice the Brits know better than to have a (written) constitution of their own ... BK> But it was the deaths of at least 88 people, many of them BK> protesters shot dead by uniformed snipers in 48 hours of BK> bloodshed, that ultimately brought him down. BK> ---------------------------------------------------------------- According to the CIA, Libyans are the most patriotic people on Earth. For decades, they looked upon their leader as being the most honest and trustworthy man who ever lived. Libyans invited Americans to their country to live and work, being ever so kind to have a separate page to stamp for a passport so that nobody would ever know you had been there. Yes, my friend, Libyans loved Billy Beer, which is why Billy and Moammar got along so great. But I digress. AK>> Putin is not Hiller, just because Russia is not a fascist AK>> Germany. AK>> Russia doesn't want to rule over the world and AK>> topple those governments it doesn't like. It is somebody AK>> else. BK> Russia maybe not, Putin I'm not so sure of. Adolf Hitler sported a funny mustache. Vladimir Putin sports a James Bond look. Adolf Hitler only had one ball. Vladimir Putin has a pair of huge brass balls. Adolf Hitler despised steak, being a vegetarian. Vladimir Putin indulges on mountains of red meat. BK>>> When Obama declared he was pulling our troops out of Afghanistan BK>>> and Iraq the Republicans ranted and raved about how no one would BK> ... AK>> It easy to explain. When you conquer a country _by military AK>> invasion_ you, as a rule, can find collaborators only among AK>> bastards, traitors and thieves. So, it is no wonder when BK> Afghanistan was the base for the 9-11 attack. Iraq was a war for BK> oil. We should have been out of Afghanistan quickly, and never BK> in Iraq. I was talking about the republican reaction to a screw BK> up series of wars, vs doing nothing or something now. Al Qaeda was The Base (al Qaeda translated into English is The Base). Osama bin Laden took credit for the attacks of 9-11, but there is much that remains a mystery. For example, President Bush was warned well ahead of time that terrorists were planning such a strike, yet chose to nothing to prevent it. Minister Louis Farrakhan claims that all 19 terrorists were still alive and well in the Middle East after the WTC Towers came crashing down. Did the President know about an impending terrorist attack and deliberately choose to do nothing, knowing no wartime President has ever lost a bid for re-election? Did al-Qaeda really do it, or was it merely a claim that was unsupported and unsubstantiated by Osama bin Laden in order to appear a hero to his followers? Are the alleged hijackers still alive and well, or is Minister Farrakhan full of bunk? BK>>> No matter what the status of the Ukraine and it's government, BK>>> Russia is clearly an outside invader. Failing to come to their aid BK>>> would be a clear sign to Putin that the West really is too weak to BK>>> stop him. Not too militarily weak, on that we outweigh them in BK>>> spade, but too weak morally. AK>> It is not correct. Ask people from Israel or the US what an AK>> invasion looks like. So far you can't tell of Russian AK>> "invasion". People must be very accurate in such things. BK> Putin has backed off. However, it certainly appeared he wanted BK> to cut the Ukraine up. It was never Putin's intention to invade Ukraine. BK> http://tinyurl.com/lsgsoqd BK> washingtonpost BK> ousted-ukraine-president-warns-of-civil-war-criticizes-us-for- BK> aiding-current-government BK> Yanukovych last appeared in public Feb. 28, in a news BK> conference also in Rostov, when he asserted he was still the BK> legal president of Ukraine and that he was not calling upon BK> Russia to intervene militarily. BK> The next day, Russia's parliament authorized President Vladimir BK> Putin to send troops into Ukraine, and soon thereafter Russia BK> asserted that Yanukovych had requested the intervention the day BK> after he spoke to the press. The US Congress authorized the use of force in regards to Iraq so that President Bush could force Saddam Hussein to back down - thus allowing UN inspectors to continue their work in Iraq. How did that work out? Instead of diplomacy, our fine President chose WAR. We were the aggressor. Iraq did not attack the US. We attacked Iraq. Did Russia invade Crimea? No. Did Russia invade Ukraine? No. The people of Crimea made their own choice to join Russia. Nobody forced them to do that. A vote was held, and it was really no contest. BK> Ousted Ukraine president warns of civil war, criticizes U.S. BK> for aiding current government Today he is nobody, a has-been politician who has lost the trust of his own people. He may have a new place to stay in Russia, but he will never be loved by Russians. That is the problem with traitors. They are seen by everyone as having no honor ... BK> "The cities are being patrolled by masked gunmen," Yanukovych BK> said in a statement to the press in the southern Russian city BK> of Rostov-on-Don. BK> Yanukovych, who read from a statement in Russian and did not BK> take questions, accused the West and the United States of BK> backing fascists in Ukraine - another regular allegation being BK> made by Russian authorities. There are a handful of right-wing fanatics in Ukraine, but they are a very small minority and of no consequence. Most Ukrainian politicians are of stable mind and are not bent on national suicide. BK> On March 6, after gunmen took over the parliament building in BK> the Crimean regional capital, Simferopol, a pro-Russian BK> leadership was installed. Then the regional parliament voted BK> behind closed doors for Crimea to leave Ukraine and join BK> Russia, setting a referendum for Sunday to validate their BK> decision. The people of Crimea have spoken, and Russia obeyed. --Lee --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb * Origin: news://felten.yi.org (2:203/2) .