Subj : Clandestine activity is a holy cow of democracy To : ALEXANDER KORYAGIN From : BOB KLAHN Date : Sat Aug 17 2013 23:06:08 ... BK>> Actually, American history books do not describe Vietnam as a BK>> victory for America. And we know the US lost the war. Not all know BK>> it, but most of us do. AK> So it was Lee's fantasy. ;) Let's just say Lee has a lot of fun around here. When he starts sending you recipes, though, hit the next button immediately. Some of them should be outlawed as crimes against humanity. ... AK>>> government forces, then, shamefully lost everything, fighting with AK>>> the Taliban resistance. BK>> The Taliban did not exist before the war, nor was the Taliban the BK>> resistance. The Warlords won the war, then corruption gave the BK>> Taliban the opening to take over. AK> Taliban was created by the US as a weapon against the AK> USSR, as well as Bin Laden, who was, one time, a Not the Taliban, more Bin Laden's friends. The Taliban started with an Afghan Cleric outraged at the corruption of the warlords. His group would have been OK if they had brought and end to the oppression of the warlords, but instead he changed one oppressor for another. AK> welcomed person for the US. That's why a Bin Laden's AK> trial has always been impossible and he was killed. I suspect Bin Laden had too close a relationship with some American politicians, esp among those most prominently shouting about terrorism. AK> AK>>> Victory -- is a situation when an invading side gets what it AK>>> wanted before the invasion. We know what the US BK>> True, and what Lee said is also true. AK> Lee's words is like the situation about Travor Martin's AK> case. Did the guard-killer win over Travor Martin when AK> he attacked him? The same situation was when American AK> invaded in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. It was not a AK> victory; it was a crazy lawless violence. All true. AK> Another example -- suppose, you want to rob a bank. You AK> penetrate into it, kill guards. But there is no money in AK> the bank at that time. Can you consider yourself a AK> victor? If you get away without being killed or caught. Like landing an aircraft. Pilots have often told me, a landing you walk away from is a good landing. AK>>> declared before each invasion. The US invaded into Afghanistan to AK>>> catch Bin Laden, the US invaded in Iraq to destroy its stockpiles AK>>> of weapon of mass destruction. BK>> The US invaded Iraq to control the oil. The rest was lies. AK> It is not correct, by a simple reason - Saddam had never AK> refused to sell Iraqi oil for the US. Vice versa - on The US did not invade to get the oil, but to control the oil. A group called the Project For A New American Century wanted to take the oil and use it to break the Saudi control of OPEC. Big oil wanted control of the oil also, but not to break Saudi control. Big Oil had more power. Dick Cheney and a number of other Bush officials, including his brother Jeb Bush, were signatories to the PFANAC principles. But Cheney supported the Project, but got his money from oil. AK> the ground of weapon of mass destruction possession the AK> US refused to buy oil from Iraq by imposing strict AK> sanctions against that country. Like I said, it was not the oil, but control over the oil. ... AK>>> First of all, I told of a host of servicemen whose task is to AK>>> suppress popular meetings and movements. To BK>> Not in the US. AK> You said, you don't have a special police force in the AK> US which is trained to disperse people's rallies? I saw Not Military. AK> myself how violently were dispersed the people from AK> "Occupy Wall street" movement. Those were local police, not military. ... BK>> Doesn't matter. The only govt that will give it up is a govt that BK>> would be able to handle it decently. AK> Well, imagine that NSA says one day: we want to implant AK> to all the people special GPS chips, and this will make AK> possible to defeat all crimes. If you are not against AK> defeating all crimes you will agree with the chips AK> implanting. If that happens it's time for the revolution. AK> But the people who want feel themselves free AK> will say another words - let some crime be. We will not AK> fight it at the expense of our freedom. Freedom is more AK> important. We will fight in in some other ways. That is an old American saying. Those who will trade freedom for security deserve neither. AK> Which way? Well, let take the terror attack against the AK> US in 2001. How it was possible to prevent such attacks? AK> Easily! All the doors to pilot's cabins have to be AK> closed, and no prostitutes should be allowed to seat on AK> pilots laps and take photos. Before the terrorist act it Yep. And that was known before the attack. AK> was almost like this. But this simple measure makes it AK> impossible to repeat 2001 style attacks by using AK> passenger planes. Sound order and responsibility is AK> better than blanket surveillance. Yep. You don't trade a thousand lives for one. Or even a hundred lives for one. And if the terrorists know they can't succeed they won't try. BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn .... Veni, Vidi, Veranda (I came, I saw, I sat down on the porch) --- Via Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg] * Origin: Fidonet Since 1991 Join Us: www.DocsPlace.org (1:123/140) .