Subj : Pakistan To : RICHARD WEBB From : BOB KLAHN Date : Wed Jan 12 2011 18:06:50 ... > RW>> Indeed! IT takes trained troops, it takes willpower, it RW>> takes building of infrastructure, the things we're failing RW>> to do in Afghanistan. BK>> Don't forget, nationbuilding is not good. Nationbuilding is bad. BK>> Nationbuilding is the work of Satan. We know that because right BK>> wingers tell us so. RW> IT has its downside, I'd agree there, but something *must* RW> be done in that region, and the better thing to do is RW> provide the troops and resources necessary to do just that. Yeah, actually commit to fixing it. Gonna happen this week I bet... yeah... sure... I believe it as much as you do. RW> PEople who have a future that is other than bleak don't RW> have as much motivation to fight to the point of their own RW> destruction. Yep. Or, as I say it, when they have more to lose than they have to gain... And if they have nothing to lose then they can do anything for any reason. BK>> Best to just let them live in anarchy and grow hard and bitter and BK>> hate filled... what can they do, we are protected by oceans, aren't BK>> we? RW> That ocean isn't a whole lot of protection these days, RW> especially when we listen to folks moan and groan as they RW> bring them over here on student visas and whatever else. Yeah... that's the point. The ocean stopped being any protection at all by WWII. ... BK>> After Kuwait I was thinking, the next president should vow that no BK>> American soldier would be sent to fight, and put his life on the BK>> line, and maybe die, unless it's for democracy for the BK>> country they are fighting for. RW> I've always hoped for that one. iF that's not what we're RW> fighting for I don't want the young folks going there to RW> die, for *any* other reason. NO other reason is worth it Exactly. RW> imho. But, now we have a situation where we must do just RW> that, because there are a couple of failed states that RW> we've either two choices: Nation building or annihilation. Yep. Though there is a good chance if we got out of the way they could fix it themselves. The Iraqis were saying, if the US leaves we will take care of Al Qaeda. They didn't like Al Qaeda any more than we did. A local columnist in the Toledo Paper is a native of Pakistan. He points out, the military there doesn't much like being jerked around by politicians, and they won't care if those politicians wear turbans. We ain't winning there, and just making more enemies. RW> Funny how we went in my little over half a century lifetime RW> from being a beacon of freedom and justice to the world to RW> being vilified and considered inept. WHat happened to that RW> beacon for liberty and justice we herad about in our civics RW> lessons? IT got snuffed out, and then sold as parts for RW> cheap oil. Excellent analysis... but... there is hope. Worldpublicopinion.org prints results of various polls. They say the world's opinion of the US is moving up. We aren't at the top yet, but we are moving up. BK>> The Emir of Kuwait would not have been allowed to return by my BK>> rules. RW> MIne either, but he did return. Even then I was saying to RW> folks that they shouldn't confuse dying for oil with RW> fighting for freedom. Which, somehow, they got confused about again. > BK>>> Maybe just do some precision surgery of the Pakistan BK>>> intelligence service. RW>> There's a thought. ISI essentially operates with autonomy. BK>> Exactly my thought. RW> Appears they're gonna be running the show in the whole RW> country anyway. Unless they bring in the Taliban and the military decides to stop that. > ... BK>>> OTOH, we need to rein in India's nuke activities also. Damn so BK>>> much we need to do. RW> RIght, but isn't some of India's nuke activity power RW> generation related as well? Yep, which is completely within the anti-proliferation rules. RW>> Right, and the way to rein in INdia's nuclear ambition is RW>> to deal with the failed state which is their neighbor. BK>> I suspect India would still want to be the dominant power so they BK>> would keep the nukes. They all need to be under world BK>> pressure. RW> Probably, but if I had to make a choice I'd just as soon RW> INdia have the whip hand. I'd just as soon the all be forced to keep their hands off each other. BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn .... Device $ not found: A)bort, R)efinance, D)eclare bankruptcy. --- Via Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg] * Origin: Doc's Place BBS Fido Since 1991 docsplace.tzo.com (1:123/140) .