Subj : Once upon a time. To : RICHARD WEBB From : BOB KLAHN Date : Sat Apr 02 2011 20:00:08 RW>> THey're much easier, dumb down the populace, sell 'em RW>> anything. BK>> That's always been the rule. It's just easier when they own the BK>> media. RW> YEah I know, civics, all that good stuff, don't bother with RW> that. RW> Reading an article, yeah I know, NY times, not some folks' RW> favorite rag, but talking about how much more we spend than RW> many other countries on education, and how much less we get RW> for it. AS they said, put the money in cultural programs, RW> teachers, the real basics, less on hauling kids by bus, and RW> athletics, and ... you know the drill. Actually, I see the athletics and arts and all the rest right in there. Used to do that. We still could if we stopped trying to do everything on the cheap. There is an occasional time to be reactionary. In this case, go back to doing it all. RW>>> Doesn't do either for me, angers me. We don't teach kids RW>>> civics anymore, we just keep dumbing it down and dumbing it RW>>> own, but the big fascists who really have a lot to gain like a RW>>> dumbed down populace. BK>> Yep. And they sell it by prattling about how much money they are BK>> saving, and how much more the people would have to pay. Yet we BK>> don't seem to be paying any less. RW> Depends on how you save money whether you're actually RW> robbing from your own future or not though. Uh...yeah... and I say that's exactly what's happening. Or our grandchildren's. BK>> The parasites on Wall Street are the right targets for the BK>> anger. They don't profit from a better life, they profit whether BK>> we win or lose. RW> That's my problem with them exactly. I understand the RW> house has to win the majority of the time to stand in RW> business, but when the house wins no matter what, and RW> you've not got a choice but to play ... Thing is, in an honest game we can all win. They like to say it's not a zero sum game, but it actually is. At least the way they play it. BK>> Fifty seven? More like a hundred and fifty seven, and still BK>> nothing on. RW> YEah I know, but that Springsteen song came to mind, so I RW> used Bruce's number . Aha! Was that Bruce Heinz? With the E-street ketchup company? RW>> What was once the greatest country on earth is no longer a RW>> bastion of freedom and a beacon of hope. Screw hope and RW>> freedom, there's not enough money in it. BK>> Same for peace and plenty. You can't be king if there isn't BK>> someone you can rule over. RW> YEah I know, but if you can still everything you need or RW> want who in his right mind would want to be king? THen you RW> get the responsibility for all of it too. That's just it, it doesn't make sense. It can be good for all of us, but some do want to be king. RW>> But, to make sure that hope and freedom go by the boards we RW>> have to discount and marginalize true culture as well. RW>> Music and art, screw them too. WE've caused there to be a RW>> fight between the ignorant "we want it all for free" folks RW>> and the creators who should expect to get paid for their RW>> work. BK>> Well, the Wall Street types want it all for free too, just in much BK>> bigger measure. RW> OF course they do, and they've set up the creative arts RW> types and the true creators of the intellectual property RW> that is now being fought over to lose no matter how it RW> goes. When as a young man reading sci fi I thought of RW> something like the internet I expected to see it become a RW> true cultural renaissance, but these days I'm not so sure. Oh how I know what you mean. The internet does have so much potential, and so little delivered. RW> But, the creative artists who use it to get their art out RW> there don't have the budget or the expert knowledge to RW> create listenable or viewable product oftentimes. RW> Acquiring the facilities and the expertise using them costs RW> money, and in today's markets that isn't available. The Vietnam war era was a cultural renaisance period, IMO, but this is a time of decline. So much opportunity, and so hard to actually make something of it. Try to steal intelectual property from the big guys and you will get nailed. But the little guy has so many barriers to get past. RW>>> Sometimes I thank god I'm already on the down side of the RW>>> slippery slope, at least I won't get to see the worst of RW>>> what the fascists and their dumbed down masses will create. RW>>> I am truly sorry I left offspring behind to be part of it however. RW>> I'll stand by that last remark. BK>> I just hope I get to stick around long enough to join the BK>> battle. RW> tO be honest with you Bob, I'm tired of the battle. I I'm tired of this battle, I'm looking forward to the chance to actually go after the true bad guys. RW> spent too much of my younger years when not playing music or RW> working a sound board engaged in it. I did enough RW> volunteer advocacy back in the '80's to mid-nineties that RW> I'm burned out on it. Trouble is, I know it's needed more RW> now than ever before, and I just can't bring myself to join RW> that world again. I burned my candle at both ends pretty RW> good back then . I have a feeling it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better. BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn .... Jesus' family was so poor they never had a Christmas tree. --- Via Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg] * Origin: Since 1991 And Were Still Here! DOCSPLACE.TZO.COM (1:123/140) .