Subj : false indentities..
To   : AUGUST ABOLINS
From : Rob Mccart
Date : Tue Jan 31 2023 01:09:00

RM> and it's not quite as easy as it sounds, the 'sellers'
  > have to do an actual identity theft to pull it off, having
  > drivers license numbers and Social Insurance numbers and
  > such, but we know these things still happen fairly
  > frequently.

AA>Apparently we do not exist unless some flimsy document says so.

AA>I know people who have lost their IDs, and the banks they have
  >always patronized don't even allow them to access their money
  >even though the tellers KNOW the person! Apparently the only
  >way you can prove who you are is with a piece of paper.

I guess you'd have to define 'lost your I.D.'.. I've never had to produce
anything but a Debit card to do whatever I wanted at my bank, but they
obviously have my other info for doing more serious things than just accessing
my bank accounts. I think the I.D. problem would mainly crop up if you were
trying to do something at a bank branch you haven't used before..
That said, someone stealing a house would make sure to use another branch
so that no one would realize you were not who you claimed to be.

AA>Yes.. I don't see why extra checks and balances can't be
  >implemented immediately. For starters, if I were the bank or
  >deed office facilitating the transfer, I'd question the
  >legitimacy of the lawyers participating and any documents
  >presented.

It's probably unrealistic to expect everyone who touches the deal to do
their own background checks. If someone comes into a bank with the proper
paperwork from a legitimate lawyer they would likely assume any checking
had been done by the lawyer. Meanwhile, even the Honest (?) lawyers get
Title Insurance rather than searching the title beyond checking that the
seller has the right documents identifying them as the owner.. so we are back
to Identity Theft to pull it off.

AA>I am a victim of a fraudulent property transfer myself, and *I*
  >wasn't even informed by the deeds office or by the
  >participating lawyer that it was taking place.

That definitely sucks.. But I suppose if someone with the proper paperwork
was there doing the transaction there would be no reason to contact that
person. As mentioned, the couple in Toronto who lost their home to that
only found out because the scammers had to pay off the mortgage to get
a transfer of the deed through and the bank did notify the true owners
that the mortgage had been successfully paid off, too late to stop it.

I think in any major transaction from buying a car to buying a house one
should beware of anyone who insists they have to do it faster than usual.

My father once bought a car where the guy wanted cash immediately on a
really good deal, but he took the time to check things out and found
that the seller was about to leave the country and he still owed a lot
of money on the car.. Dad did buy the car from him, but produced proof
that he'd paid off the bank loan and then gave the seller the balance
left over.

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