Subj : Starlink helps destroy Ru To : August Abolins From : Dennis Katsonis Date : Fri Mar 25 2022 09:13 pm -=> August Abolins wrote to Dennis Katsonis <=- DK> This is a recipe for disaster as international relations DK> is not beholden to these rogue actors. AA> As far as I know, businesses are free to conduct business with AA> other countries as they see fit. The gov't has tarrifs and AA> duties that they impose. They are, but when many companies decide to cause economic harm, it has political and social ramifications, externalities. Capitalists are generally very poor when it comes to taking into account externalities. The question isn't whether it is legal or not (it is), but whether they realise it will have greater implications than simply virtue signallying and "feeling good" about doing something. AA>> It would be not different if a bunch of doctors got AA>> organized on their own, call themselves Drs Without AA>> Borders, and go help people with meds and medical AA>> expertise. DK> Offering medical assistance is completely different to DK> enabling and supporting military activities. AA> Well.. conducting medical services to a soldier is just as much AA> as "enabling and supporting militarty activities". He gets AA> treated, and back he goes to fight. AA> Wrt, to Starlink, the internet service is just a comms system. AA> What users/customers do with it is THEIR doing. Criminal and AA> secret things get conducted over the internet all the time. AA> A lament on privacy from 1972.. AA> https://kolico.ca/mpg/TGC1972-privacy.mp4 In the West, especially the Anglosphere, we seem to think that the law is the letter of the law, and not the spirit, and if "technically" you are within it, then that is the end of it. Russia won't buy such an argument. They're not stupid. DK> Russians and Chinese won't see it the way you do, which is DK> important because they both have nukes, and the ability to DK> defeat the US in war should one start. This is a time to DK> tread carefully, to negotiate a peaceful solution, but if DK> some random CEO is going to do something which starts a DK> conflict, we're stuffed. AA> It is hard to know if just the Russians and Chinese can defeat AA> the US. No doubt all large countries have plenty of nuclear AA> power to cause a lot of damage. But a nuclear fight will AA> affect the agressor and destroy the livelyhood of many AA> surrounding places. AA> Perhaps Putin underestimated the resourcefulness of private AA> citizens of other countries to one-up him on severing typical AA> comms systems and the internet in the country that he is AA> blasting. The people who are either trapped in Ukraine or who AA> choose to stay deserve to be in touch with the outside world AA> and their loved ones. I don't believe the mainstream media. They have been claiming that the war has been going badly since it started, yet Russia has taken over Ukraine at a very fast rate. They are painting a picture which would make you think that Zelensky is one day away from marching down Red Square. The mainstream narrative MUST be false, and obviously is propaganda aimed at demoralising any pro-Russian actors. It reminds me of an apocryphal exchange in Germany at the end of WWII in Berlin. A: How did you know that you were losing the war? B: Our victories were getting closer and closer. The US lost in Vietnam, lost in Afghanistan. The US doesn't really know how to fight wars because they don't know what the telos, the endgame is. How would you defeat Putin? Putin has clear objectives, what is the US going to do? March into Ukraine from the West? Not going to happen. No NATO country, or should that be, the citizenry of NATO countries are not willing to actually fight and die in Ukraine. The US can only offer indirect support and pretend it isn't doing so (Russia and China aren't fooled by this). --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52 * Origin: MS & RD BBS bbsweb.mozysswamp.org (3:633/384) .