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 (HTM) Visit Hacker News on the Web
       
       
       COMMENT PAGE FOR:
 (HTM)   I wanted to build vertical SaaS for pest control, so I took a technician job
       
       
        sizzle wrote 14 hours 58 min ago:
        I have annoying carpenter ants does anyone recommend Taurus SC?
       
        cestith wrote 18 hours 9 min ago:
        There’s no way to build domain knowledge like working in the field
        you want to target. This could be a reusable model for people looking
        to serve a well-targeted vertical with one’s own software company for
        that vertical.
       
          tezclarke wrote 18 hours 5 min ago:
          Yes, and the other way around is increasing now. Industry insiders
          building their own tools to solve specific problems.
       
        _spduchamp wrote 18 hours 42 min ago:
        I like this idea of building your own software to run your own business
        rather than trying to sell software.
        
        My wife and I run a small chain of second-hand clothing stores that buy
        from the public, and we run it on our own custom software built on top
        of a rails e-commerce engine. (Solidus) We don't do anything online,
        but instead use the engine to run our point-of-sale and credit system.
        We have one part-time developer who works from home and occasionally
        comes and works directly with the staff in the stores, and now she
        leans a little on Claude for assistance.
        
        I would never want the hassle of trying to make our system work for
        other companies. I love that we have a system that can adapt and change
        based on our needs without being beholden to some else's SaaS.
        
        If we were to rebuild it all today, we'd probably lean even harder on
        Claude, but still work using a good open source e-commerce framework.
       
          tezclarke wrote 17 hours 22 min ago:
          It's only going to get easier, cheaper and faster to build these
          things for yourself. Thanks for sharing.
       
        vicchenai wrote 20 hours 14 min ago:
        the incentive structure thing is so real. i build tools for
        institutional investing and the number of times i've seen a perfectly
        good product idea die because it threatened someone's quarterly bonus
        is depressing. the REIT example is exactly what happens in finance too
        -- compliance teams will block adoption of something that saves money
        if it makes their workflow tracking harder, even temporarily. working
        in the domain first changes what you build in ways you can't get from
        interviews. you stop building features nobody asked for and start
        solving the annoying 5 minute tasks that happen 40 times a day.
       
          danielmarkbruce wrote 19 hours 51 min ago:
          You don't have an email address listed - could you ping me at my
          username at googles popular email service to chat on tools for
          institutional investing?
       
            AlexeyBelov wrote 6 hours 36 min ago:
            vicchenai is an LLM bot.
       
        skizm wrote 21 hours 46 min ago:
        > We have an acquisition of a small residential operator lined up,
        which we'll build the tooling for and grow a platform around once
        we’ve proven the model works and can scale.
        
        This is the exact process private equity tries to do at scale, right?
       
          tezclarke wrote 21 hours 41 min ago:
          We plan to build more technology in house than PE does. We will start
          with this first small acquisition, learn and go from there. It might
          grow by more acquisitions, franchising or organically by attracting
          the right technicians over, or having a better training program to
          quickly train and get experience for new guys
       
            skizm wrote 21 hours 2 min ago:
            Hopefully I didn’t come off as dismissive. Love the hustle here.
            It’s always been a dream of mine to quit big tech and do
            something local like this. Glad to see others have made the jump
            successfully.
       
        jamesjolliffe wrote 21 hours 56 min ago:
        Huge admiration and respect for this guy. Jealous of his people skills.
        Legit, what % of developers on HN do you think are well-rounded enough
        to pull this off?
        
        Godspeed bro.
       
        Fokamul wrote 23 hours 7 min ago:
        I hope LLMs will soon replace all these sales people and SaaS
        companies. 
        Recreating SaaS product with LLM legally, will be fun during this year
        and I think it will explode in 2027, also with major lawsuits :)
       
        lexro_ai wrote 1 day ago:
        The REIT bonus thing hit me. It's never about the idea being bad, it's
        about who's getting hurt in their pocket if it works. Took me way too
        long to figure that out too.
        One thing I'm curious about — are you planning to actually run the
        company day to day after the acquisition or bring someone in to operate
        it while you focus on the tech side? Feels like that decision changes
        everything about the pace you can move at.
       
        vlinx wrote 1 day ago:
        I think taking the technician job is brilliant and exactly how you find
        the 'better way' for vertical SaaS, similar to how EquipmentShare
        understood the deep inefficiencies in heavy equipment rental. It's
       
          tezclarke wrote 1 day ago:
          They killed it. "A better way to rent"
       
        BigBalli wrote 1 day ago:
        That's wild. I literally just launched [1] and find this extremely
        fascinating.
        
 (HTM)  [1]: https://pestpro.app
       
          tezclarke wrote 1 day ago:
          AI slop - you've sent me the same message on linkedin and you vibe
          coded that two minutes ago.
       
            BigBalli wrote 18 hours 6 min ago:
            I wasn't sure you'd see the comment here (didn't know you posted it
            yourself). Was just trying to connect to learn from you.
       
              grey-area wrote 17 hours 44 min ago:
              Really quite disturbing that you can now generate this kind of
              slop in minutes. [1] Let's be honest here, why did you generate
              this just now, are you hoping for work building mobile apps, or
              are you sincerely expecting to run a pest control SaaS business
              with AI generated blog posts and a download link that doesn't
              work?
              
              You've done the incredibly easy bit (making a prototype), do you
              intend to do the hard work of building a business over 10+ years?
              
 (HTM)        [1]: https://pestpro.app/blog/
       
            truetraveller wrote 1 day ago:
            Hey! I have no absolutely no clue who OP (BigBalli) is. I checked
            this guy's profile out. He's a member since 2012, I don't think he
            meant bad at all.
            
            I'm personally anti-AI. I checked out his app, and whether
            vibe-coded or not, it looks very well done. And the app actually
            has both offline mobile apps + web apps. And it's free? And FWIW,
            pestpro.app was registered ~1 month ago.
       
              Jn2G3Np8 wrote 23 hours 55 min ago:
              On top of the app store link not working, the privacy and terms
              links also 404.
              
              Also why is it free? Presumably the data is the product.
       
                BigBalli wrote 18 hours 6 min ago:
                yeah, apple still has to review it... hence the broken link
       
              jvidalv wrote 1 day ago:
              If you click on "download button" which should open the link to
              the App Store you will notice that is a broken link. This is why
              is ai slop.
              
              Spinning a web like that today is 30 minutes of Claude Code
              prompting.
              
              But like it or not, the gatekeeping of Apple and Google means
              that pushing an app to their stores is days work and wait time.
              
              So yeah, reeks of ai slop.
       
                BigBalli wrote 18 hours 5 min ago:
                apple still needs to review it. That's why I said "literally
                just now".
       
              liamwire wrote 1 day ago:
              Agreed, reaction from OP is concerning to say the least
       
                BigBalli wrote 18 hours 5 min ago:
                thanks
                
                FWIW didn't mean to hurt/insult(?)
       
        skyberrys wrote 1 day ago:
        Wow this is a wild read. I can't believe it worked out so well,
        although it certainly had it's share of hiccups. Just recently I had an
        encounter with a pest at my house and then spent some time trying to
        find a company to deal with it for me. The results of my calling were
        unsatisfying so I ended up just taking care of it myself. However after
        I solved my problem I saw a truck from one of the companies I was
        calling driving through my neighborhood. I think I must have managed to
        convince my guest to move to another house and apparently that home
        owner has less issues than I do with the pest removal methods.
        
        Side note, is it just me or do these services seem designed to be a
        short term patch so I have to have a long term, every 6 month, sort of
        servicing from the pest control company?
       
          tezclarke wrote 1 day ago:
          The regulations for pesticide use are really tightening up,
          especially in California. Today's treatments often don't kill the
          pest, rather they make them feel a bit sick and they move along to
          more welcoming environments like you say.
       
        panavm wrote 1 day ago:
        One thing I've noticed building domain-specific SaaS with AI
        assistance: the first few weeks feel like magic, but then the codebase
        becomes hard to maintain.
        
        The issue isn't the AI output quality — it's that most builders
        (myself included, initially) use AI reactively. Ask a question, accept
        the answer, move on. No structure for maintaining context between
        sessions or verifying that new additions stay coherent with the
        existing system.
        
        The builders who get the best results seem to treat Claude/Cursor more
        like a junior dev: useful, but you review everything, and you
        explicitly maintain shared context about the state of the project.
        
        Domain-specific SaaS is actually a great use case for this because the
        problem space is bounded — you can give the AI a really tight
        context. "We are building scheduling and invoicing for pest control
        companies. Current architecture is X. Today we are adding Y." That
        specificity makes the output dramatically better than generic
        prompting.
        
        Good luck with the build — the insight to go learn the domain in
        person before building is genuinely rare and gives you a huge moat.
       
          tezclarke wrote 1 day ago:
          It'll go further - bespoke software for the specific company. The
          exam training is a good example - people have different learning
          preferences so why can't we cater to that automatically if we already
          have all the data and context?
          
          Voice input that actually works to reduce screen time and
          distractions while driving or wearing gloves on site. Understanding
          and reacting to parking availability in cities, prompting the
          technician to upsell in the way the system knows he's most
          comfortable with (so he actually does it).
          
          Incumbents will have to base this on Salesforce and adapt it which is
          expensive and a grind. Even if they have appetite for that,
          retraining the technicians who are used to the existing way will be
          horrendous.
       
        tgtweak wrote 1 day ago:
        I know about 4 friends that have left their parent company, built a
        killer product that same company didn't think to build or didn't
        believe in, only to get acquired by that same company after a few
        years... some have done it multiple times.
        
        I think this falls in exactly that situation.  You see how janky these
        national companies are doing things, plot out a disruptive course, then
        disrupt them in a particular region so that you can extrapolate how
        much that will hurt at national scale and force a buyout that's way
        beyond the multiple you bought those small operators for.
       
          charlie0 wrote 22 hours 28 min ago:
          How did they deal with non-competes? Are they in CA or somewhere
          those aren't enforceable?
       
            williamdclt wrote 19 hours 52 min ago:
            Sounds like they didn't build competing products, they built
            products that'd have been very valuable to the parent company.
       
          tezclarke wrote 1 day ago:
          Ask for forgiveness, not permission!
       
        teleforce wrote 1 day ago:
        >I built my own training GPT and passed in 13 days, which was a company
        record. The training manager knew I'd built the app but never showed an
        interest, which makes sense: it could replace about a quarter of his
        role.
        
        I'd really love to read a dedicated article on this side project.
        
        Apparently, Karpathy is into AI based education business with Eureka
        Labs [1] Introducing Eureka Labs:
        
 (HTM)  [1]: https://eurekalabs.ai/
       
          g947o wrote 18 hours 13 min ago:
          The whole thing looks dead. I followed a few links but couldn't find
          anything meaningful that comes out of this.
       
          tezclarke wrote 1 day ago:
          The training was basically to sit and read books all day, and it
          could be so much faster. Surprisingly there is no reliable test /
          quiz prep tool available online, just some free ones that contain
          errors.
          
          Given this company is basically the best, they should really build
          their own revision / quiz tool. The most valuable part of training
          was a webinar which I took notes from, and turned into revision cards
          alongside info from the books and revised the way I know works for
          me. They could do this bespoke for each trainee in seconds now.
       
        pier25 wrote 1 day ago:
        Domain knowledge is really the most important in any business. If
        you're making software for a particular industry you won't get very far
        without it.
       
          tezclarke wrote 1 day ago:
          Agree, and can't be skipped (can be accelerated though)
       
        impish9208 wrote 1 day ago:
        The bugs are the feature!
       
          tezclarke wrote 1 day ago:
          Bugs are top of funnel.
       
        ozten wrote 1 day ago:
        William Burroughs on 1959 HN: I wanted to write Naked Lunch, so I took
        a pest control job.
       
        btown wrote 1 day ago:
        > That’s why selling SaaS or AI to this kind of company isn’t for
        me - I’d rather focus my energy on building a company from my own
        principles, and hire people who share them from the beginning.
        
        > When I told my manager I was leaving, he said I should start my own
        company and give him a call when I do. So that's what I'm doing.
        
        I love hearing stories like this, because it shows a way to be a
        builder without the "venture or nothing" narrative that has pervaded
        the tech space since the dotcom days.
        
        It is very difficult to make a venture-backed services firm (providing
        services, not software) that can be immediately profitable, grow
        sustainably, and outperform competitors with in-house technology that's
        built for real on-the-ground stakeholders... at a speed that will
        satisfy venture investors.
        
        But it is more possible than ever ([0]), to do this (in-house tech and
        all) on a bootstrapped basis - since AI reduces the engineering staff
        required to build, adapt, and maintain an agile best-in-class solution
        at single-tenant/single-customer scale. The outcome is at the least a
        lifestyle business, but with upside that can take the form of anything
        from franchising to licensing to full-fledged SaaS in the future.
        
        I wish OOP the best of luck, and hope he's found a passion. He could go
        far with this approach if he ends up following through.
        
        ([0] This is not to say there are no barriers to entry. There's
        privilege in the word "founder," and this is no exception. And the
        K-shaped economy has left many brilliant would-be founders behind. But
        at least some barriers are lower than they once were, and that's worth
        appreciating.)
       
          andrew_lettuce wrote 20 hours 5 min ago:
          The idea that AI makes adaptation and maintenance easier for non
          domain experts seems a stretch at best. All we've seen to date is it
          makes building shallow copies quicker for more people, and helps
          experts go faster. Neither of these applies to the majority of
          bootstrapping vertical domains
       
          wouldbecouldbe wrote 22 hours 43 min ago:
          Out of all things, you have to be a sadist to be passionate about
          pest control. Even though necessary at times, it's not a very clean
          job.
          
          Sounded more like he likes he is passionate about building a 
          business.
       
            tezclarke wrote 21 hours 49 min ago:
            It’s the business characteristics I like. Recurring and one off
            revenue, big market, growing, regulations. The exam barrier to
            entry rather than 4y apprenticeship like plumbing
       
          tezclarke wrote 1 day ago:
          On "venture or nothing" - This will be my second company and this
          time round I have stripped right back to the problem, which is
          actually quite basic - pest control is a big, good business to be in
          and it's possible to build a very big, profitable business by doing
          the simple things right, consistently.
          
          It will compound over time if the basics are done right (which is
          harder to do than I thought before this experiment)
          
          In my previous company, we founded it with the outcome first - "take
          over the world" or bust. This time I think the base case is a good
          company, and the ceiling is the best in the industry.
       
            theptip wrote 20 hours 13 min ago:
            I think there is the potential for a beautiful correction here; the
            general narrative over the last 5-10 years is PE buying up good
            businesses, enshittifying them and loading up debt to improve
            margins, and driving down quality.
            
            But this leaves an opportunity for anyone that cares to build a
            business that is higher quality (and even better if it’s possible
            to build it efficiently too).
            
            I think with AI lowering the barrier to entry we should expect to
            see a lot of new small businesses appear, and perhaps if we are
            lucky this trend can drive a reversal in the enshittification.
       
              floatrock wrote 17 hours 27 min ago:
              I like the story, I struggle to see how to outplay PE.
              
              Yes, PE enshittifies the experience. You can be a better human
              and win customers that way.
              
              The headwinds are the usual david-v-goliath going up against
              scale/consolidation stories:
              
              - consolidation gives more purchasing power. When all the
              PE-controlled pest control vendors in the state are negotiating
              as one, they get bigger cost breaks
              
              - PE has a bigger war chest. They'll enshittify eventually, but
              they'll undercut you longer than you can stay solvent. At that
              point, they'll happily buy you for pennies.
              
              - The end-game is always monopolization. A PE firm bought up
              something like all the concrete mills in Georgia or one of the
              southern state. Any building or municipal project in the state
              effectively buys from that one company, even though it looks like
              a bunch of different local concrete mills.
              
              - Any AI you throw at the problem presumably PE can handle more
              efficiently at scale.
              
              What's the strategy that outcompetes?
       
                christoff12 wrote 14 hours 3 min ago:
                Service businesses win on service, which notably degrades over
                time with PE firms.
                
                So you win by taking the long view and building incrementally
                and opportunistically jump in as the incumbent falters.
       
            lotsofpulp wrote 1 day ago:
            > which is actually quite basic - pest control is a big, good
            business to be in and it's possible to build a very big, profitable
            business by doing the simple things right, consistently.
            
            I would have thought the opposite because pest control is the
            easiest thing to DIY for most people.  All the insecticides and
            traps and knowledge for what to use is available online, there is
            usually no emergency so research can be done, and no technical
            skills to learn most of the time.
       
              tezclarke wrote 19 hours 46 min ago:
              On residential - lots of people don't want to get their hands
              dirty. For commercial - it's rarely worth doing in-house and in
              manufacturing / food industries getting it wrong can lead to
              fines / closure losing contracts, so it's not worth penny
              pinching.
       
              foobarian wrote 20 hours 1 min ago:
              My biggest problem with a service like pest control is I can't
              tell what it does.  I'm not talking about getting rid of a hornet
              nest or squirrels in the attic, I'm talking about the
              door-to-door salespeople who want you to subscribe to a quarterly
              sprinkling of some magic dust around your house.  If I could get
              a trustworthy measurement like "number of 2x4s not destroyed by
              carpenter ants" or "sqft of siding not rotten because of nests" I
              would be a lot more open to it.
       
                tezclarke wrote 19 hours 49 min ago:
                For the d2d residential services, you're buying peace of mind
                and usually the provider will guartantee the service. E.g. if
                you see ants and you're not due a visit until next month,
                they'll drop in and sort it.
       
              Lalabadie wrote 21 hours 22 min ago:
              I think you're assuming that there is no valuable/monetizable
              difference between a neophyte, and an experienced expert serving
              (and supported by) a solid organization.
              
              Also, I don't know where you live, but the more powerful
              substances used by licensed pest control are regulated and aren't
              (legally) available to the general public. If you're willing to
              run a business model based on unlicensed use of controlled
              substances, there are more profitable options than pest control
              lol
       
              DaedalusII wrote 1 day ago:
              fumigating houses, pest control at commercial food facilities,
              commercial premises etc is a big dirty difficult job and involves
              expensive equipment and hazardous chemicals etc plus as OP noted
              requires exams before you can do it for 3rd parties
       
            seibelj wrote 1 day ago:
            My neighbor is the best wallpaper guy in the city, which you’d
            think is extremely niche but wallpaper has come back in a big way.
            All sorts of businesses out there for those who identify needs and
            service wants. And the best way to know about a business is to work
            for an established one first
       
              guzfip wrote 21 hours 50 min ago:
              I’ve always wondered how the hell things like vacuum repair
              shops and other niche stores I still see around from time to time
              are still around.
              
              It’s not that I don’t think anyone would choose to repair
              their vacuum. It’s more that I can’t imagine they get enough
              volume to pay the lease/rent/bills on whatever commercial
              property they’re on.
       
                yardie wrote 19 hours 5 min ago:
                The smart ones will own their shop outright. If not, they are
                on a longterm lease.
                
                Also, don't knock it, a quality vacuum like a Kirby or Miele
                will go decades, are incredibly quiet, and just need
                maintenance on wear and tear, which these repair shops provide.
                I think we got used to thinks being terrible. Like my Dyson,
                does good work, it's also very loud compared to my financially
                secure friend's Miele.
       
                  JDEW wrote 18 hours 58 min ago:
                  > Like my Dyson…
                  
                  Which is wild because a Dyson has a premium price tag.
       
                tezclarke wrote 21 hours 47 min ago:
                Tough as consumer goods are generally getting cheaper and
                better quality. Can’t remember the last time we had a problem
                with the TV. We have left them behind when moving apartments as
                they’re relatively cheap now
       
              tezclarke wrote 1 day ago:
              Love this one. You are selling people their time back with a
              service like wallpapering for sure.
       
            anoojb wrote 1 day ago:
            This is amazing. Thanks for sharing the story.
            
            > ...and noticed companies have become less likely to offer their
            time for ride-alongs and research calls. They get too many
            requests, and vibe coding is drawing their attention to self-build.
            
            Is this ACTUALLY happening? Are entrepreneurs who get into
            vibe-coders really eating up time a bunch of time for trades
            people?
       
              tezclarke wrote 1 day ago:
              Much more difficult to get attention from blue-collar decision
              makers than it was previously. Also bc there's a ton of
              investment in the sector now, so they're bombarded by inbound!
       
                anoojb wrote 21 hours 11 min ago:
                I see, you're statement is less about product research and more
                about customer acquisition.
       
                  tezclarke wrote 21 hours 9 min ago:
                  Getting the initial conversation even to research (not just
                  to sell to) is more difficult than before for these reasons.
       
            tezclarke wrote 1 day ago:
            A really good company worth checking out in this vein is
            equipmentshare.com. In 10y they started and IPO'd, by being a
            better way to rent heavy equipment.
       
          anon291 wrote 1 day ago:
          Lifestyle business has been a thing since day zero in this space (the
          tech world)
       
            tezclarke wrote 1 day ago:
            I have been surprised by how many tech founders, currently funded
            by VC, have side gigs or are running the company knowing they wont'
            or can't scale it. I don't think this is a good thing for either
            the founders or the VC (who probably don't know)
       
              thaumasiotes wrote 1 day ago:
              I briefly worked for someone who was funded by Imagine K12, just
              before Imagine K12 merged into Y Combinator.
              
              He used his funding to rent four apartments in San Francisco,
              which he then sublet, personally, through Airbnb.
       
                tezclarke wrote 1 day ago:
                I know exactly who you’re talking about
       
                  Paracompact wrote 1 day ago:
                  Name and shame?
       
        isatty wrote 1 day ago:
        The possum is a friend and not a pest though. I hope you aren’t
        killing them :(
       
          tdb7893 wrote 19 hours 15 min ago:
          Possums are stinky bastards but I love them so much! Juvenile possums
          are shockingly adorable, just look at these little guys!
          
          ( [1] )
          
 (HTM)    [1]: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f8/Baby_opos...
       
          Joel_Mckay wrote 19 hours 57 min ago:
          Possums and Skunks may carry diseases like most wild animals, but
          usually only show up if there is a rat/mouse infestation around a
          food/garbage source.
          
          Taming wild animals is bad for their long-term well-being around
          human populations, as rabies also initially causes
          uncharacteristically "friendly" behavior at first.
          
          I agree people should leave nature alone whenever possible. =3
       
          aaronbrethorst wrote 1 day ago:
          squish them very gently (and then give them treats)
       
          tezclarke wrote 1 day ago:
          Absolutely not.
       
        taude wrote 1 day ago:
        You can't offshore pest control.
       
          downrightmike wrote 1 day ago:
          We did with the central american hook work fly etc prevention
          programs
       
          ozten wrote 1 day ago:
          But you can onshore pests... wait, Nutria pest control and generate
          demand by ... introducing Nutria to untapped markets!
       
        TZubiri wrote 1 day ago:
        Did I read this correctly?
        You were on the job for 1 month and you are now starting a competing
        company?
        
        >when I was leaving my boss told me I should start my own company.
        
        Genuinely or sarcastically?
       
          tezclarke wrote 1 day ago:
          2 months
       
            tezclarke wrote 1 day ago:
            and not competing - we are looking at a different location and
            sector, not that I think they'd even consider us as competition
            anyway
       
        Aeroi wrote 1 day ago:
        I work as a Boat Captain and I've been building Camera Search for 16
        months to provide better tools for tradesmen. It's evolved into a
        larger platform with multiple clients, but the core use case for me was
        building a video and photo first agent that is grounded in actual
        manuals and data and provide better diagnostics, parts, and repair
        info.
        
        My longterm vision is to be the agent platform for traditional
        industries, bridging the gap between knowledge work and physical work.
       
          tezclarke wrote 1 day ago:
          Diagnosis without the professional having to be on site is a good use
          case.
       
        deweywsu wrote 1 day ago:
        This might be a bit of a gold rush of sorts at first, in that the first
        people to transition from tech to running a small business, whether
        tech-enabled or not, will find a bigger piece of the pie waiting for
        their taking.  But as the stream of many others increases over the
        years, the pie's slices will get smaller as competition for the same
        market segments increases.  Not trying to paint doom and gloom, just
        that I'd imagine, as the author says, this kind of white to blue collar
        shift will accelerate, and as it does, competition will rise, lowering
        the chance for overall profits.
       
          est31 wrote 1 day ago:
          The end game is a resource based economy as all sorts of labor
          becomes cheap.
          
          Think of Saudi Arabia, Iran, Putin's Russia, or Norway. I.e. risk for
          highly nepotic dictatorships, with the potential that it might end up
          well despite the odds (Norway).
          
          Before, if you made a product that improved the lives of everyone,
          say you invented Google or Heinz ketchup, you could make a lot of
          money through that, and you did a good deed and became rich the same
          time. The masses of humans would reward you for delivering the
          benefits of your invention to them by giving you a piece of their
          work output.
          
          As their work becomes less and less worth, why focus on those humans
          though? I am asking rhetorically of course.
          
          An economy that thrives from innovation enriches the innovators,
          making them powerful. A brute in power causes the innovators to leave
          or in the worst case, he mass-executes them outright (think of what
          Stalin did in Russia). With AI, you can have a brute in power though,
          as an oil rig or datacenter can be protected by a bunch of machine
          guns.
          
          An economy with AI everywhere will be, after a short and very
          innovative period, just be about who controls which resource, i.e.
          water for a datacenter, production lines for robots, mining rights,
          operational control of robot fleets, etc.
          
          The working 95% will probably experience a sharp decrease in
          purchasing power, making a lot of products unaffordable to them, so
          consumption wise we'll have a further shift towards plutonomics. The
          owning top 10% will probably be affected by this major shift in
          consumption as well, E.g. a tower full of condos becomes worthless if
          the tenants can't pay rent because they got laid off, etc.
          
          Need for robots and AI will further increase. Eventually most
          economic activity will revolve around those robots. It's a bit like
          paperclip optimizer here, whether those robots protect gay luxury
          space communism from counterrevolutionaries, or they project the will
          of the Davos council of Forbes 400, economically it will be quite
          similar.
          
          There will still be human societies, humans will still talk to other
          humans. We won't be all exclusively conversing with LLMs, I doubt
          that. There will still be social mobility but it will revolve around
          nepotism, lying, and various escalation steps of war.
          
          We might end up in different scenarios depending on the country, but
          some countries like Germany might lose relevance as most of their
          value lies in stuff that is going to be replaced by AI, i.e. they
          have less natural resources, or they have been depleted already.
          
          We might also see companies that automate everything from end to end,
          from mining to producing and running weaponized robot fleets.
          Shareholders of those companies will do great too, if the leadership
          of the companies respects minority shareholder rights that is (why
          should they though, they will outgun any law enforcement).
          
          Do I like this future? I don't think so. We will probably have solved
          cancer, communicable diseases, and aging in the next 30 years if AI
          continues its successful trajectory, but not sure if it will be
          accessible to 8 billion humans.
       
          TZubiri wrote 1 day ago:
          What's the gold rush in this scenario, just business in general?
          
          Doesn't seem like it can be a tulip if it encompasses all productive
          endeavors.
       
          linkjuice4all wrote 1 day ago:
          In my limited “ai transformation” experience the biggest gains
          seem to be just forcing down some of the walls between these
          different systems. Larger, more well run places were probably
          integrating all of their systems/data/etc so there was none of this
          low hanging fruit. It seems AI as a forcing function of combining
          data sources to feed into the AI just had the beneficial side effect
          of connecting all the crap.
       
            tezclarke wrote 1 day ago:
            Getting data into the crm without physical input is a good quick
            win. Techs will often drive and type at the same time. Another good
            win is scheduling the right technician for a job when the customer
            call comes in. Lots of companies building these agents at the
            moment and a challenge for them is how to get into customers at
            scale.
       
              deweywsu wrote 1 day ago:
              How did you get such a good sense for business alongside
              implementing solutions with programming?  Did you have experience
              doing this before?
       
                tezclarke wrote 1 day ago:
                I'm non-technical so I don't code, although I'm able to do a
                lot more myself than a year ago, with AI / claude cowork.
       
          tshaddox wrote 1 day ago:
          Sounds great for people who need pest control tool services!
       
          TurdF3rguson wrote 1 day ago:
          Is it a gold rush or a pie eating contest? (I need to know if I
          should be selling shovels or forks).
       
            deweywsu wrote 1 day ago:
            That said, this guy is a superstar.  This kind of application of
            skill to a totally different business paradigm to improve it is
            what I'd love to spend my time doing.  Knowing my personality, once
            I improved the business, I'd get bored running it and move on to
            finding something else to improve.
       
        nomilk wrote 1 day ago:
        Love stories like this, where someone learns some completely orthogonal
        domain for educational purposes.
       
        system2 wrote 1 day ago:
        How long was the employment at the pest company? At any point, did
        anyone treat you like you were stealing their business? I thought about
        this approach, but I chickened out many times because of the possible
        confrontation.
       
          tezclarke wrote 1 day ago:
          No, and to be absolutely clear, you should not be dishonest or
          fabricate.
          
          I was up front that I was exploring getting back into blue-collar,
          coming off the closure of my startup, and that I wanted to get into
          sales but wasn't sure if this would be a long term thing as it's a
          totally new industry for me.
          
          We were aligned on giving the technician job a try before moving into
          sales, and it's common for people to take that path as you can't
          really sell the services if you've not done the job for a bit.
          
          Important context - I am not a tech millionaire. The top guys
          regionally at these companies earn $500k+, and some are in the $Ms,
          so if there was a route to be top pest guy at BigCo, I was up for it!
       
            system2 wrote 1 day ago:
            Thank you. This story is a reminder that all these niches we pass
            on assuming they are not worth pursuing are actually thriving
            quietly in the background.
       
        dsalzman wrote 1 day ago:
        Doing something similar. Bought a business in the petroleum equipment
        service space. Building internal tools for ourselves. Pen and paper
        still dominates the industry.
       
          deweywsu wrote 1 day ago:
          Would you recommend buying a business over starting one from scratch
          when possible?
       
            diordiderot wrote 1 day ago:
            Depends on the industry / multiple / employees.
            
            You want at least a year where you're systemising the owner out of
            the business without filling their shoes.
            
            You'd also want some kind of break clause so you can back out if it
            turns out the business can’t run without the owner, or if the
            team won’t adapt and can’t be replaced.
       
            Joel_Mckay wrote 1 day ago:
            Usually... buying proven technology, and marketing lead lists is
            still a gamble. However, the other YC posters are correct in the
            "never make what you can buy" advice... if and only if there is
            still mileage in the product life-cycle.
            
            In general, there are a lot of serious rules around energy and fuel
            industries. Rockwell and Kongsberg technology still dominate for
            some very practical reasons.  Seeing a few small firms fail hard in
            the area, I would still call it a fools errand for those looking at
            low hanging fruit.   =3
       
            downrightmike wrote 1 day ago:
            Buy then build
       
            dsalzman wrote 1 day ago:
            Depends on the industry and your experience plus your access to
            capital. Sorry for the non-answer
       
          spenczar5 wrote 1 day ago:
          Does it matter that pen and paper dominate? How much of the
          business's expenses are overhead?
       
            jofzar wrote 1 day ago:
            I worked in scheduling and timekeeping industry for a little bit,
            when pen and paper is mentioned you think "oh it's just notes
            written, and some other things" but in reality it's literally whole
            departments storing everything in daily/weekly sheets/binders and
            it's like 20 people's job to keep it all in order and keep the ship
            running for next week.
            
            When someone asks what the plan is for next week, the answer is
            normally, it needs to be written out, or I'll have to find this for
            you etc.
       
              christoff12 wrote 12 hours 18 min ago:
              Yeah, my first job at a startup was at an oil and gas saas that
              ingested unstructured data into a standardized db for smaller
              operators.*
              
              "How much money did we make yesterday?" was a nontrivial question
              that required a several people a couple of days to compile
              manually before our software.
              
              ---
              * Would probably make a killing today; this was over a decade ago
              and the extraction was 98% regex and custom if statements
       
        bashtoni wrote 1 day ago:
        I love this, the perfect antidote to all the stupid startup-bro grind
        bullshit posts.
        
        You put in real work to understand the business landscape and typical
        pain points. With AI, implementing solutions has become much easier but
        knowing what the problems are and how to solve them hasn't.
       
        colesantiago wrote 1 day ago:
        There is definitely money in the pest control SaaS business, mine is
        running at $2M ARR for a few years now.
        
        There are lots of antiquated operators not having newer technology for
        pest control, which makes this area lucrative for even $50K MRR.
        
        Go for it!
       
          d675 wrote 1 day ago:
          also starting in a blue-collar field soon as an operator-ish in a
          facility management company. I've already lined up an awesome new
          SaaS in the main industry. Pest control will be one of the verticals
          the company has customers fo so I will be keeping an eye for it, was
          thinking of just starting a pest control business it self.
          
          Does your software do anything fancy or is mostly for organization,
          good workflow, and being the central source of truth?
          
          Did it require a lot of development after getting a few customers on
          boarded?
          
          are you a 1 man show?
       
          tezclarke wrote 1 day ago:
          Congrats - what's the company called?
       
        clcaev wrote 1 day ago:
        I liked that you picked a service that has a relatively low barrier to
        entry. The real asset are local
        operators and referrals. Making them more efficient without being
        controlled by a big company would be a boon for everyone involved.
        
        Consider being a platform coop with regional operators as members. See
        
 (HTM)  [1]: https://platform.coop/
       
          DrewADesign wrote 1 day ago:
          I’ve never heard of platform Co-ops. Cool! Lots of people predicted
          that a beloved local coffee shop was doomed to fail when the workers
          got a loan and bought it to run as a completely flat cooperative.
          It’s been a few years and they are absolutely killing it. I’d
          love to see the tech version of that.
       
            clcaev wrote 1 day ago:
            There is still much to be worked out, but some smart people are
            working on it. See also
            
 (HTM)      [1]: https://e2c.how/
       
              DrewADesign wrote 1 day ago:
              Thanks! Cool initiative. I’ll look into it.
       
          tezclarke wrote 1 day ago:
          Yes, the barrier here is the desire to study and pass the exam. If
          willing, you are up and running relatively quickly - but only as a
          technician under someone else's operating license. To get the
          operator license (eg to be a full on pest control company) requires
          2+ year documented experience and another set of exams.
          
          The operating license holder is also on the hook for legal action if
          (when) things go wrong.
          
          "Control" is interesting and I have found in all trades that people
          value their freedom. The good companies don't monitor employees too
          tightly, and are rewarded with loyalty and longer tenures generally.
          Of course you have to run a good recruitment and referral process to
          find the good people!
       
        mememememememo wrote 1 day ago:
        I'd love if this ends up being he gets a 1m/y pest control empire going
        and quits tech startups as he prefers the sweaty kind.
       
          crystal_revenge wrote 1 day ago:
          Not long ago I left a reasonably cool AI startup to join an ops heavy
          (like people physically doing work, running warehouses etc) company.
          There was some adjustment but the ability to deliver real, concrete,
          monetary value to people working in the field is incredibly rewarding
          (and oddly the pay is on par with most bay area startups).
          
          I recently talked to a few companies in the AI space, from (smaller)
          frontier model labs to companies still looking to build "AI products"
          and my take away was that, if you're not working for one of the big
          players, the market hasn't really figured out if there is an "AI
          engineer" job yet.
          
          I'm increasingly starting to believe that the future of work for
          people that have technical skills (more than just 'software') is
          likely going to be working in places that are less about "shipping
          software" and more about supporting teams doing something physical in
          the real world.
          
          These companies are also the most ripe to truly leverage AI: they
          have tons of messy problems that need to be solved and iterated on
          extremely fast. Operations people tend to be "EoD" deadline people,
          not quarterly planners. Getting solutions solved in an actionable way
          on time often means really understanding the core business, the
          technical space surrounding it, and how to leverage AI to pull of
          some miracles. It can be stressful, but when you pull it off your
          stakeholder have sincere and real gratitude and you're actually
          moving the needle for the company.
          
          I don't think the Bay area, even those sniffing the AI vapors the
          hardest, is really willing to accept what AI is going to do to
          software and software companies.
       
            z3t4 wrote 1 day ago:
            I love working for those companies also, where they are used to
            waiting months for a small software update and I can do it in hours
            and they think I'm a wizard.
       
            tezclarke wrote 1 day ago:
            The best outcome is bespoke software for every company and small
            "ops heavy" (in startup context) startups have a window to grow
            like weeds. Imagine the culture shock and legal / procurement
            process for an established player to bring a vendor in to build
            this for them. It won't work, it needs to be an internal team, but
            even then, the internal politics, and short term affects to
            people's bonuses and incentives will make it almost impossible.
       
              tezclarke wrote 1 day ago:
              I give this example as I previously worked at a big European
              REIT. My job was to implement renewable energy across the
              portfolio which on paper was a no-brainer due to legislation and
              grants / feed in tariffs etc.
              
              We got huge pushback from every angle with the local teams,
              people paying lip service to drag it out and delay. Eventually I
              got to the root cause... The capex had to come out of the
              business unit, and the payback would negatively affect their KPIs
              and bonus. Next time I came across this kind of issue, I asked to
              see the incentive structure before approaching anyone.
       
          jojobas wrote 1 day ago:
          Building a vertical backoffice for just 1 company used to be
          pointless and probably still is.
       
          tezclarke wrote 1 day ago:
          This is going to be the route for a lot of white collar people as
          they lose their jobs to AI.
       
            mememememememo wrote 1 day ago:
            Absolutely. I am thinking what my blue collar alter ego will be.
       
              DrewADesign wrote 1 day ago:
              I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but as a recent white->blue
              collar convert, (union metalworker,) tech workers are usually far
              less qualified than your average vocational high school graduate,
              way less physically capable, and waaaaay less tolerant of the
              sort of workplace unpleasantries in these types of jobs at the
              entry level. Your tech experience gets you pretty much zero
              advantage,  and there are lots of very smart people outside of
              the software world that have put a whole lot more thought into
              that industry than you have. Consistently high labor demand meant
              companies had to comparatively treat tech workers with kid
              gloves, and as a result, most don’t realize how much smoke has
              been blown up our assess for decades. They start as soft,
              arrogant, maladroit noobs who will cosplay as working class for a
              couple weeks and either eat crow and stick with it long enough
              for their boss to not want to throw them off a bridge, or give
              up/get fired and try to pay the bills doing zero-entry-barrier
              gig work. I was fortunate enough to have been a blue-> white
              collar covert a couple of decades ago so I knew what I was
              getting into. The fantasy that a tech worker landing in a blue
              collar field will naturally rise above the rabble and shoot to
              the top is a workplace version of the fantasy where a white
              person finds themselves in some jungle full of “savages” and
              is so inherently impressive and sophisticated that they’re
              immediately made king.
       
                Jbird2k wrote 1 day ago:
                Blue collar guy here who started working construction at 13
                years of age. I concur that many white collar people won’t
                have an easy time adjusting to blue collar jobs. Some people do
                switch and thrive. Many however don’t have the mental
                fortitude to push through the misery of a non stimulating brain
                numbing endless job that could kill somebody if you stop paying
                attention.
                
                There are also a lot of geniuses who might barely know how to
                read but can do incredible work and figure out some really
                difficult problems.
                
                I consider myself blue collar even though I am a school teacher
                currently. It’s in my blood. I don’t especially like the
                work but I can do it and I am skilled at it.
                
                My advice to anyone moving in to the blue collar world is to be
                respectful. If you are educated Don’t ever let on that your
                education makes you superior somehow. You will make a lot of
                enemies by being that person.
                
                You will likely run in to people who really are quite
                unintelligent just be considerate and don’t get into debates
                with them. A lot of people come from poverty or really tough
                backgrounds and many are quite sensitive about it so don’t
                make a big deal about it.
                
                On the other side there are many people who are quite
                intelligent and have the skills and knowledge of engineers even
                though they do not have any formal training or education.
       
                  tezclarke wrote 1 day ago:
                  A lot of people have been sold a lie about uni education (and
                  willingly bought it in a lot of cases).
       
                    pocksuppet wrote 1 day ago:
                    IF you're reading Hacker News, you're probably not one of
                    those people. You're probably someone for whom a university
                    education, and working in software, are actually good fits.
       
                      tezclarke wrote 1 day ago:
                      Agree.
       
                juddlyon wrote 1 day ago:
                This made me laugh. “We’ll computerize it and get filthy
                rich! They’re stuck in 2015!”
                
                I’m guilty of this type of thinking and occasionally get
                reminded when I’m way out of my lane.
       
                gnarcoregrizz wrote 1 day ago:
                yeah. there absolutely are lots of very smart and capable
                people outside of tech. as someone who has seen the blue collar
                world "up close" (family businesses), its a different breed...
                the culture and attitude gap is enormous. shockingly so. most
                tech workers I know couldn't hang (don't hustle as hard, risk
                averse, liberal), but some skills may transfer, like problem
                solving and diagnosis, i.e. debugging.
       
                  mememememememo wrote 1 day ago:
                  Why is risk averse a thing. Blue collar jobs are just jobs
                  unless you are going self employed and buying all the gear
                  etc.
       
                    SoftTalker wrote 18 hours 40 min ago:
                    > buying all the gear
                    
                    Most blue collar jobs require this. A mechanic usually has
                    to provide his own tools. This can be tens of thousands of
                    dollars just for a basic set that lets you do standard
                    jobs. Then you might have specialty tools for specific
                    equipment.
                    
                    Even a framer or roofer is bringing his own hammers, saws,
                    PPE, and anything else that's required. You don't just roll
                    up to a job and get handed everything you need like a
                    software job.
       
                      DrewADesign wrote 10 hours 49 min ago:
                      Big time money on tools and professional tools are not
                      fucking cheap. I have about $1800 in measuring equipment
                      alone that I had to buy out of pocket. Add in wrenches I
                      can put my entire body weight into all day long, a drill
                      index, multiple top-end hammers, screwdrivers, grinders, 
                      deburring tools, punches, clamps, handheld grinders, etc.
                      etc. etc.
                      
                      I think mechanics have it worse though. In my shop I
                      mostly only need imperial tools, at least.
       
                    rambambram wrote 1 day ago:
                    From above: "endless job that could kill somebody if you
                    stop paying attention"
       
                    tezclarke wrote 1 day ago:
                    Cash flow and accounts receivable management is a headache
                    for these guys
       
                    DrewADesign wrote 1 day ago:
                    This is a great example of the perspective disconnect.
                    
                    In trades, the risk is usually not financial. I come home
                    every day smelling of petrochemicals, with minor to
                    moderate injuries, having been on my feet for 8 hours,
                    sometimes up on ladders with greasy boots on, climbing on,
                    into, and out of machines that could maul me without even
                    making an unusual sound, and carrying 100lb sharp steel
                    parts up stairs because it’s more efficient than waiting
                    forces the shop hands to do it.
                    
                    While the risks certainly have financial components,
                    they’re more “get cancer, brain damage, lose a limb, or
                    maybe even your life” risks. Risk averse is career death.
       
                    Antoniocl wrote 1 day ago:
                    At least in the factory I worked in prior to becoming a
                    software engineer, there was a significantly higher
                    component of physical risk than in any of the software jobs
                    I've worked in
       
                  DrewADesign wrote 1 day ago:
                  I mean, brains transfer to any job, and it’s tough to be a
                  developer if you’re genuinely stupid. So in that respect,
                  sure. But I’m definitely not saying that developers
                  aren’t smart enough to do blue collar work.
       
                    lelanthran wrote 1 day ago:
                    > But I’m definitely not saying that developers aren’t
                    smart enough to do blue collar work.
                    
                    Fine. I'll say it: developers aren't smart enough to
                    survive a blue collar environment.
                    
                    My credentials? I worked in a factory in my youth. 12hr
                    shifts, nightshift only, 7 days a week, on assembly lines.
                    
                    Your average developer is definitely not risk averse enough
                    to keep all their limbs. Where I worked, two people on two
                    different lines lost limbs.
                    
                    If you have ever used npm install on your daily driver
                    without sand boxing it, you're too stupid to work in a
                    factory.
       
                      SoftTalker wrote 18 hours 34 min ago:
                      Well to be fair the risk of "npm install on your daily
                      driver without sand boxing" is that you might have to
                      wipe and reinstall everything, or even deal with a
                      persistent malware and loss of data. There's no risk of
                      going home missing a limb. That sort of risk does tend to
                      grab your attention a lot more.
       
                      DrewADesign wrote 22 hours 7 min ago:
                      There are some really important distinctions in the types
                      of smart we’re talking about, here.
       
                      intrasight wrote 23 hours 20 min ago:
                      > you have ever
                      
                      That's way too strong. I would say "if you've ever done
                      it and had an issue and not learned from the mistake then
                      you're too stupid".
                      
                      The trades differ from software and that there's a lot
                      more "learning on the job" and making rookie mistakes in
                      terms of how the physical world works.
                      
                      There is learning on the job with software, but it's a
                      much smaller component and much of that is being replaced
                      with AI skills.
       
                qwertyuiop_ wrote 1 day ago:
                Agree having made the switch from construction -> Tech job.
                Having sat around at least 25,000 tech related meetings until
                now worked with thousands of people in various roles in tech, i
                could count on my one hand the number of people from each tech
                company I worked that could qualify to survive the real blue
                collar world.
       
                  DrewADesign wrote 1 day ago:
                  I just imagine random scenarios that would definitely
                  happen— like some pallid, heavily moisturized former lead
                  developer in $500 work clothes deciding to jockey for
                  smartypants cred by ‘debating’ a shop
                  supervisor/foreman/whatever about their approach to something
                  as it’s being executed, or in a meeting in front of
                  everyone, like they might interject about an architectural
                  decision at a dev meeting… saying something like “well
                  it’s basically a traveling salesman problem” and spewing
                  some seriously flawed approach without realizing that the
                  super is using a technique unequivocally proven superior in
                  like the 1940s. Or arguing with an actual engineer about an
                  engineering decision because they “read this substack
                  article written by a software developer that puts a ton of
                  research into this stuff.”
                  
                  I then nearly die of internal cringe.
       
                refulgentis wrote 1 day ago:
                Hate to see you in gray, I went from dropout waiter to Google
                via my own startup in between. And you nailed e v e r y t h i n
                g, I am screenshotting this and reading it over and over again
                for years to come. Great writing too. Cheers.
       
                  DrewADesign wrote 1 day ago:
                  Haha, thanks. It’s bobbed up    and down around that zero a
                  few times. People that know it’s true vs. people that may
                  soon find out that it’s true.
       
                mememememememo wrote 1 day ago:
                I agree. I am not naive! I would not be doing it as a lifestyle
                choice though. I'd do it because I need to. I have worked in a
                factory before so culture shock wont be there at least. I get
                my pay would half (luckily I am not on the US West Coast
                monster TC so merely it would half).
       
                  DrewADesign wrote 1 day ago:
                  It’s far worse in the restaurant industry. We’re going to
                  see a lot of really awkward concept restaurants and bars open
                  and close in quick succession.
       
                    mememememememo wrote 1 day ago:
                    Yes. Although if we can get more robot sushi restaurants
                    for a while I will not complain.
       
                      DrewADesign wrote 21 hours 59 min ago:
                      Yeah if software developers have anything to do with
                      that, it’s providing the software or the money. Running
                      a restaurant is extremely complex, specialized knowledge
                      with a dizzying number of moving parts. Something like
                      40% of restaurants close their first year, and the large
                      majority don’t make it 5.
                      
                      Funding someone that knows how to run a restaurant and an
                      engineer with food processing expertise, HAACP compliance
                      and all that? Sure. But I was in that business in the
                      Boston area and saw SO many tech geniuses blow through
                      their funding before they even opened.
       
                        lazyasciiart wrote 14 hours 54 min ago:
                        I'm sure there are many software engineers and
                        similarly unqualified people in that 40%.
       
                          DrewADesign wrote 11 hours 54 min ago:
                          They don’t make up the majority of that 40%—
                          it’s tough even for experienced people— but the
                          majority of that crowd ends up in that 40%… or soon
                          after if they’re good at convincing other people
                          who have no idea what they’re doing to invest in
                          it. The NRA (the other one) stats that I’m probably
                          misremembering slightly are actually pretty
                          eye-opening.
                          
                          The problem is that the business requires showing the
                          customer just enough of the labor, planning, etc that
                          goes into their experience to make them feel like
                          they’re getting a lot for their money, but not so
                          much that they feel bad for enjoying it.
                          Unfortunately, the customer doesn’t see most of
                          that labor, and so often they think “well I’ve
                          been to so many restaurants that I b know how they
                          work… I could do this…” They’re almost always
                          totally wrong.
       
                            lazyasciiart wrote 7 hours 57 min ago:
                            Oh for sure. I worked in a restaurant for years
                            through college: eventually the mildly famous
                            chef/owner retired (staff found out by guests
                            commenting on the newspaper story that night).
                            Turned out he had sold it to an up-and-coming local
                            star chef, a couple years past his “apprentice of
                            the year award” and back from working in major
                            kitchens overseas. We were convinced it would be
                            dead within months: it was a 26yo chef who had
                            never run a business, backed up by his wife (who
                            was waiting tables for the first time ever as her
                            second shift after a day job covering the
                            mortgage), and his parents, who came across as
                            thought they had never been inside a restaurant
                            kitchen before that.
                            
                            Turned out his dad had just been pushed into
                            retirement from head of purchasing and logistics at
                            a multi-state department store, so he ran the
                            paperwork and it was a dream team. Mom was not my
                            type of person but worked her ass off cleaning the
                            whole place every day, very impressive. After about
                            a year they were doing well enough that his wife
                            got to quit working night shift there.
       
        johnea wrote 1 day ago:
        GTM? Does that mean Get The Money?
        
        Assuming everyone knows your acronyms is just not a good writing style.
        
        Since I couldn't understand how s/w was going to get opossums out of
        anyone's basement, I think the correct decision was made: hands on!
        
        You deserve accolades for making this choice. Good Job!
        
        Like any physical trade, this is by it's nature a local only endeavor.
        So a web presence that is primarily visible to geographically local
        potential customers would be most effective.
        
        Any aggregation is really just a way to skim some of the profits from
        the people actually doing the job. That is to say, GTM according to my
        definition above.
        
        Personally, when I can't get an in-real-life personal referral to some
        trade, and I'm forced to do web search, I always spend extra time to
        try to find a web page that is put up by a local company, not an
        aggregator.
        
        Things like plumers.com (this is a totally made up example, not
        referring to any real website) I find to be extremely irritating. Since
        they have absolutely nothing to do with whoever will eventually show up
        and do the work.
        
        This form of aggregation through, is extremely common today, and a very
        large part of why the modern internet sucks.
        
        craigslist.com (the actual website) used to be a good example of
        referring local services, until it was overrun with spammers and
        scammers.
        
        Will this correct? Will we proceed to the dead internet? Who knows!
        What next weeks exciting episode to find out...
       
          parallel wrote 1 day ago:
          s/w? Does that mean sidewalk?
       
          stbtrax wrote 1 day ago:
          bizarre take and writing style. if the saas enables them to be more
          efficient it's overall net positive
       
          tezclarke wrote 1 day ago:
          Go to market - e.g. how to sell your thing.
          
          For residential / consumer markets, referrals are the gold standard
          and I agree to an extent about the local focus. A lot of PE (private
          equity) backed roll-ups result in a worse customer and worker
          experience as they try to force scale too fast.
          
          Some PE companies will open a local market by initiating acquisition
          conversations with all local players, low ball everyone, buy some and
          for a short period dramatically reduce pricing to force the hold-out
          cohort to sell at an even lower price. Not good for communities.
          
          The unlock to balancing scale and customer / worker experience is
          creating the right incentives for people to adopt the behaviors
          you're after. This is why bolting on SaaS or AI to established
          companies is tough, as the staff often don't want to change and will
          leave - which is bad in a tight labor market.
          
          Searching for home services online is totally broken and is a tax on
          buyers and operators. HVAC contractors pay on average $600 for a
          closed lead from online ads, and close about one in four / one in
          five leads.
       
            TurdF3rguson wrote 1 day ago:
            I read it as Google Tag Manager, lol.
       
          9x39 wrote 1 day ago:
           [1] GTM is ubiquitous on the business side.
          
          If you read his post, there's significant effort not "catching
          opossums" but waiting or churning through admin overhead - wasted
          time, which maybe he can translate into $. This much inefficiency
          is...common in many businesses.
          
 (HTM)    [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go-to-market_strategy
       
        MisterTea wrote 1 day ago:
        Interesting pivot. What I don't understand is how the SaaS software
        fits into it or helps grow a pest control company.
       
          clcaev wrote 1 day ago:
          The software for businesses like this is tightly intertwined with
          operations. Hence, it's less of a SaaS and could be more like a
          franchise model.
       
            tezclarke wrote 1 day ago:
            I agree a lightweight franchise would be attractive, though I don't
            like most franchising options due to the fees and lack of equity
            build up for the operator.
            
            Some franchising platforms (window cleaning is a good example)
            don't offer much beyond sales and marketing support and some nicely
            designed uniforms. There's not much to window cleaning other than
            basic equipment, so a person's route can easily be disrupted by a
            new entrant who doesn't have the franchise rake to contend with.
            
            There's a model between employment, ownership and franchising that
            will probably emerge as sales, marketing, ops gets easier
            technically.
       
          tezclarke wrote 1 day ago:
          I don't believe SaaS is a good option in this sector - the incumbent
          VSaaS is decent, cheap, and ubiquitous. By "tech-enabling", I mean
          layering tech into the ops where it adds value and helps to scale the
          business. Obvious wins are upselling, hands-free data entry to the
          CRM, smart traps/stations. My choice is to compete as a tech-enabled
          operator, rather than sell AI/SaaS to incumbents.
       
            petesergeant wrote 1 day ago:
            I did this for a small recruitment niche, and made good money. I
            burned out for various reasons, so when the niche (Perl
            programming) dried up, I didn't have the energy in the tank to push
            into other niches, but I think there's a _lot_ of meat still on
            that bone. I'll almost certainly have another crack at it if I can
            find the right tech-recruiter partner.
       
            alberth wrote 1 day ago:
            I’m genuinely inspired by your journey.
            
            One question for clarity: why don’t you see an opportunity to
            sell AI or other technology into this space again? Is it just
            because incumbents already have it locked up and it’s cheap?
            
            The reason I ask is that this feels like one of those moments in
            history similar to mobile. PlanGrid succeeded because tradespeople
            suddenly had iPhones and iPads in the field, which made it possible
            to digitize blueprints and collaborate in real time.
            
            Put differently, what could be the new “PlanGrid” for your
            industry - that AI makes possible now, the way mobile once did for
            construction?
       
              tezclarke wrote 1 day ago:
              Pest control is about 60% consolidated, and I don't want to pick
              the fight of convincing the top 5-6 to buy more SaaS or AI.
              Realistically they're looking to Salesforce for leadership there.
              
              I see today's consolidation as fragile though, and it's not
              locked in forever. I'm better at building a competitor where I
              have full influence of the customer and worker experience, and I
              have the patience to see it through.
              
              Part of shaping my thinking here is 1) knowing what I'm good at,
              much better than I did before, and 2) in my previous company we
              built a heavy equipment telematics platform which was used on
              about 1/3 of the UK's infrastructure projects. JCB (an equipment
              OEM with their own bad version of what we were doing) threw the
              kitchen sink at field sales and account management, and they had
              reach into all the sites across the country. It was an eye opener
              and good lesson about go to market for enterprise sales in
              traditional industries.
       
            fma wrote 1 day ago:
            Similar boat here. Many of these service industries are cheap. I've
            built my own CRM/management system that no big company will ever
            touch. Even if I can sell to 1000 companies and charge them $25 a
            month...I'd have staff overhead, maintenance to support it. SaaS
            isn't some little photo editing app or something you can just
            launch and forget.
            
            I'd rather grow my business and make as much money. If I can crush
            it with my business I'd make more than that.
       
              tezclarke wrote 1 day ago:
              Yeah agree - software needs to either do a ton more, be much
              cheaper, have network effects (such as connecting supply and
              demand), or some data benefit to avoid being built in-house or
              replicated.
              
              Also for me there's an element of picking the pain I want to
              solve for. I've run a software company before, and prefer the
              tech-enabled route personally.
       
        1970-01-01 wrote 1 day ago:
        So how is hiring going to be handled at this new company? Is he
        expecting people to just show up and start working?
       
          tezclarke wrote 1 day ago:
          We will recruit technicians who are aligned with the tech-enabled
          approach.
       
        zhainya wrote 1 day ago:
        You took a job as a tech in order to learn about pest control business
        so you could build a SaaS platform?  Do I understand that correctly? 
        In the end you decided not to build a SaaS and started your own pest
        control company?
       
          tezclarke wrote 1 day ago:
          I wanted to get in the field for real, see how it works. There is
          going to be a lot more people exploring blue-collar work as white
          collar jobs are eliminated. I plan to acquire the traditional
          operator I've identified, and tech-enable it. If that works, grow it
          as a platform by either acquiring other companies or attracting
          technicians over.
       
            truetraveller wrote 1 day ago:
            Congrats, and genius move. And great hustling, show's there's no
            way out of hard-work.
            
            Reminder to myself to pick an industry that's always gonna have
            demand. We recently paid ~$200 for a 30 minute visit to seal off
            like 3 tiny holes around the perimiter of our house because of mice
            (actual cost of materials ~$5).
       
              tezclarke wrote 1 day ago:
              Lots of guys working at the big companies do this type of work
              (called exclusion) on the side. One guy where I worked charged a
              restaurant $8k for exclusion work that took 2-3 days out of hours
              and $500 in materials. I asked the company why we let this work
              go - they don't want the liability and relative hassle compared
              to steady service routes.
       
       
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