_______               __                   _______
       |   |   |.---.-..----.|  |--..-----..----. |    |  |.-----..--.--.--..-----.
       |       ||  _  ||  __||    < |  -__||   _| |       ||  -__||  |  |  ||__ --|
       |___|___||___._||____||__|__||_____||__|   |__|____||_____||________||_____|
                                                             on Gopher (inofficial)
 (HTM) Visit Hacker News on the Web
       
       
       COMMENT PAGE FOR:
 (HTM)   Delta single handle ball faucets (1963)
       
       
        haritha-j wrote 49 min ago:
        These are such a horrible horrible idea, particularly the shower
        variant. You just can't have fine control when the thing moves in two
        dimensions, you want a little bit more shower pressure? How about I
        burn you instead? Whats wrong with having one dial for temperature and
        one for water pressure?
       
        jetsetman192 wrote 3 hours 32 min ago:
        These types of faucets are so common where I live that I can’t really
        imagine what the alternative is. What do you have if you don’t have
        this?
       
          pm215 wrote 44 min ago:
          You can have either completely separate hot and cold taps, each with
          their own spout, or you can have a setup with separate hot and cold
          knobs and a single spout.
          
          For my bathroom sink I specified a two taps/one spout unit (similar
          to this one [1] ) because I prefer to be able to get "this is
          definitely cold water with absolutely no hot water mixed in" when
          that's what I want. (My hot water comes from a combi boiler, so if
          you run the hot tap for a short time all that happens is you burn
          some gas when the boiler detects the water flow but you just get the
          cold water in the pipe.)
          
          I like the combined handle type for showers, where you always want
          some hot water and are generally running the water for a long time.
          
 (HTM)    [1]: https://www.screwfix.com/p/swirl-traditional-chrome-104mm-cl...
       
          pastel8739 wrote 3 hours 25 min ago:
          Separate knobs for hot and cold, like this:
          
 (HTM)    [1]: https://www.homedepot.com/p/MOEN-Brantford-4-in-Centerset-2-...
       
            abcd_f wrote 44 min ago:
            ... or two separate taps even. Though it's quite a bit more exotic
            and ancient.
            
 (HTM)      [1]: https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/1536/cpsprodpb/AF32/producti...
       
            jetsetman192 wrote 2 hours 7 min ago:
            Getting ”Access Denied” from that link.
       
        ggm wrote 3 hours 38 min ago:
        If you live in an economy where these are uncommon, travelling to one
        where they are common and especially the equivalent for shower control
        in hotels.. is a logistical nightmare.
        
        Its the eigenvalue of taps. It's hot, or it's not, and which orifice
        it's coming out of is completely unclear as well as which motion causes
        more, or less of water and heat.
       
          userbinator wrote 2 hours 46 min ago:
          Left and right for hot and cold, up and down for more and less flow.
          Very intuitive.
          
          It sems these days shower valves have all been enshittified to have
          exactly one dimension, which proceeds from "off" to "small trickle of
          cold water", then "slow flow of warm water", and finally "slow flow
          of barely hot water".
       
            TeMPOraL wrote 1 hour 9 min ago:
            > Left and right for hot and cold, up and down for more and less
            flow. Very intuitive.
            
            Unless someone wired the cold/hot in reverse, which happens
            surprisingly often.
            
            Otherwise, agreed. Should be obvious and intuitive the first time
            you start using one.
       
        dpe82 wrote 4 hours 52 min ago:
        I've never see the MR-510 dishwashing handle before - that seems so
        convenient!
       
        matthewmcg wrote 5 hours 20 min ago:
        The terms of sale are so clear and concise. But I don’t see a
        warranty period. Would they still replace a part on a 1961 sink?
       
          eclipticplane wrote 4 hours 45 min ago:
          Not sure about warranty, but a few years ago my mother's 80s(?) era
          Delta faucet started leaking. I sent a blurry photo to Delta's
          service team and a few days later had a link to a replacement part
          and an old manual scanned as a PDF. For a 40 year old product!
          
          Ultimately we replaced the whole faucet and fixture, but that single
          reply probably made me a customer for life.
       
        throwaway173738 wrote 5 hours 26 min ago:
        I just changed a valve in one of these shower handles last year.
        They’re great. The Moen shower handles are pretty good too but the
        cartridges require a special tool to replace.
       
          bob1029 wrote 3 hours 53 min ago:
          > the cartridges require a special tool to replace.
          
          I find foul language to be the most effective tool for this job.
       
        pengaru wrote 5 hours 29 min ago:
        I need a time machine.
       
        jessmartin wrote 5 hours 31 min ago:
        Wow. This is exactly my kitchen faucet. Which makes sense, because my
        house was built in 1961.
        
        Works great. Amazing how durable the faucet is!
       
        800xl wrote 5 hours 50 min ago:
        I paid a little more and waited a couple weeks to receive a Delta
        single handle faucet for my kitchen back in 2020, rather than just
        buying what was available on the shelf at Lowe's. Model: #400LF-WF. The
        reviews at the time said it was basically the same faucet made back in
        the 60s. I'm glad I did - it has been an excellent faucet.
       
          userbinator wrote 5 hours 7 min ago:
          It's interesting to see the prices back then - the model 400 cost
          $24.95 (see page 15), which would be around $260 today.
          
          Incidentally, the newer variants also have flow restrictors, which
          aren't hard to remove.
       
          vel0city wrote 5 hours 22 min ago:
          > rather than just buying what was available on the shelf at Lowe's
          
          Funny, that exact model dominates the shelf space at the Lowe's near
          me. Practically a whole bay for just those, over 50 in stock right
          now.
       
            800xl wrote 4 hours 23 min ago:
            Weird. I figured at the time it was due to COVID related supply
            chain issues, but I just checked and they still don't stock them
            locally.
       
        nik282000 wrote 5 hours 57 min ago:
        Oh my god, actual dimensions on a drawing, part numbers, AND service
        instructions!?! I work on industrial equipment with 1/10th the
        documentation presented here.
        
        Cool find, op!
       
          mns wrote 40 min ago:
          Is this a US thing? We renovated the apartment in Germany in the last
          year and every faucet and piece of equipment that we got has a manual
          including a table with list of parts and technical drawings and how
          to take it apart. We also got from the original owner all the manuals
          of the existing things, and this helped a lot in finding the proper
          part to replace and fix the bathtub drain. None of this is old stuff,
          the building is 15 years old.
       
          Aurornis wrote 4 hours 24 min ago:
          In the architectural space it’s common to have design files for
          everything, especially today.
          
          I looked at Delta’s website and sure enough you can even download
          CAD models and drawings of their faucets:
          
 (HTM)    [1]: https://www.deltafaucet.com/bim-library
       
          dpe82 wrote 4 hours 48 min ago:
          No wonder our grandparents generation were good with mechanical
          things. If they were looking at materials like that all the time - I
          feel like you'd build an intuitive sense of how common household
          devices work pretty easily if it were so clear and accessible.
       
            jackyinger wrote 3 hours 30 min ago:
            Literature on doing things was much more practical. There was a
            culture of things being repairable. There was a pride in one’s
            work. Check this out if you don’t believe me: [1] The rise of the
            publicly traded corporation run by fiduciary duty has, in my
            opinion, squeezed out repairability, pride, and workmanship for
            marginal financial gains.
            
            I fear it won’t have been worth it in the long run. Shame short
            term incentives run the show.
            
 (HTM)      [1]: http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/1617/30720.pdf
       
            Aurornis wrote 4 hours 5 min ago:
            Materials like this are infinitely more accessible to us than our
            grandparents generation. We all have devices in our pockets that
            can get to service manuals for our products in minutes. I can have
            common parts at my door overnight from Amazon with the press of a
            button on my phone. Every local hardware store carries replacement
            cartridges and gaskets for common faucet types.
            
            The reason our grandparents generation was good at fixing things is
            because they had to be. My grandparents lived through the Great
            Depression and worked difficult manual labor jobs. Contrary to the
            Reddit memes about how past generations lived like kings on trivial
            jobs, they worked extremely hard for everything and made it last.
            
            It’s really easy to get service manuals and do basic maintenance
            on simple things like faucets these days. I think the only reason
            it’s becoming common for people to not know how to do basic
            repairs or even find basic service information is that many people
            grew up never having to think about it. I still have adult friends
            who went from living with their parents to dorms to rented
            apartments who never learned the first thing about maintaining or
            fixing things around the house because they’ve never had to and
            they don’t want to - and they can keep going that way without
            really losing anything. It’s a choice at this point, but it works
            for them.
       
              TeMPOraL wrote 1 hour 19 min ago:
              > Materials like this are infinitely more accessible to us than
              our grandparents generation. We all have devices in our pockets
              that can get to service manuals for our products in minutes.
              
              You mean minutes to find the right bootleg manual site with PDF
              for an adjacent product category, then some more minutes to
              realize you cannot safely (if at all) get at the manual, some
              more minutes to find a different bootleg PDF site, realize that
              it's actually not close enough to the model you have, and 1h
              later, finally find the good enough PDF... only to realize that
              "service manuals" today are often useless, and decide to repeat
              this process on YouTube?
              
              > I can have common parts at my door overnight from Amazon with
              the press of a button on my phone.
              
              Overnight is often too long. Also good luck finding the right
              parts and reconciling conflicting IDs between manuals,
              manufacturers and vendors.
              
              > Every local hardware store carries replacement cartridges and
              gaskets for common faucet types.
              
              Except when 90% of the faucets are uncommon, and support for them
              gets effectively discontinued after a few years.
              
              Now contrast that with our grandparents, who usually had repair
              manuals included with the product, most parts were universal (and
              probably on-hand or extractable from something else at home), and
              you could actually go to a local hardware store where the clerk
              would be able to figure out what parts you needed on the spot,
              and with luck had them in stock.
              
              I'm not claiming our grandparents had it better in general, but
              let's also not pretend there are no downsides to ongoing
              specialization and market competition. We may have more stuff,
              prettier stuff, better stuff[0], but nothing is ever compatible
              with anything, it's that way on purpose, and people are no longer
              supposed to repair anything themselves.
              
              --
              
              [0] - That's highly debatable in appliance space.
       
              wredcoll wrote 2 hours 58 min ago:
              I mean, a generation or two ago, people frequently learned to do
              things like replace spark plugs and alternators and mess with oil
              changes.
              
              My generation learned how to plug computer components together
              and install operating systems and drivers.
              
              The reason people did that is because they (more or less) had to.
              
              The generation being born today will need neither of those skill
              sets.
              
              Cars, by and large, stay working for as long as people care to
              keep them and the things that do go wrong are, mostly,
              uneconomical to fix at home.
              
              It's likewise rare for, dunno, uninstalling a video game to
              accidentally delete some crucial OS dependency that causes the
              thing to need to be reformatted.
              
              It's hard to say what skills the next generation will learn, but
              I can guarantee there will be something that they need that their
              children will not. And that they'll complain about their children
              being useless for not knowing whatever that is.
       
                urig wrote 1 hour 27 min ago:
                No, we just outsourced car maintenance to professional shop
                services. Both because mechanical aspects have become reliable
                enough to last a year without maintenance and because
                electronic/computer aspects are mind-bogglingly complicated.
       
                  TeMPOraL wrote 1 hour 13 min ago:
                  > because electronic/computer aspects are mind-bogglingly
                  complicated
                  
                  And because it's software, it happens to be a perfect way for
                  the manufacturer to extract rent (er, "recurring revenue")
                  from car repair business. It's not complexity that's shaping
                  how end-user repair experience looks like, but the fact that
                  you often need proprietary connector, proprietary software,
                  and a valid license key to interface with the car's computer.
       
                    buran77 wrote 6 min ago:
                    And because plenty of engineering goes into designing
                    subsystems with the explicit but unstated purpose of making
                    them close to impossible to repair without ultimately
                    resorting to help from the manufacturer.
                    
                    Software is just the latest layer on the cake.
                    Non-repairable designs, special tools, unavailable parts,
                    unavailable instructions, fragile and error prone
                    procedures, encryption, and more. They're all occasionally
                    used to with the main purpose of blocking any attempt to
                    easily repair without generating revenue for the
                    manufacturer and their network.
                    
                    Source: I have family working for two large car
                    manufacturers both in engineering and management, who have
                    personally experienced explicit demands to make things hard
                    to repair by the owner but make them in a way where a
                    reasonable explanation can be used for plausible
                    deniability.
       
        jibal wrote 5 hours 59 min ago:
        My shower and all my sinks have this design.
       
        amarant wrote 6 hours 3 min ago:
        These are still very common in Sweden. I installed one when I renovated
        my kitchen a couple of years ago for example. Different design of
        course, but the same mechanism. 2 out of three bathrooms have similar
        ones too! Iirc the shower in the guest house does as well, but memory
        is fuzzy and I'm currently too far to check
       
          nemetroid wrote 10 min ago:
          Not common for showers, though. Those almost always have separate
          temperature and flow controls.
       
          pzlarsson wrote 3 hours 53 min ago:
          When shopping for a home in Sweden, seeing a kitchen without single
          handed faucets is a telltale sign that the whole kitchen was designed
          with form prioritized over function.
       
        trivialities777 wrote 6 hours 9 min ago:
        I just installed a similar one in my bathroom, except the handle is on
        the side instead of on top. Also has a pull-down flexible hose that
        snaps back in with a magnet, very useful for cleaning.
       
        voidfunc wrote 6 hours 23 min ago:
        We had one of these in our kitchen when I was growing up before we
        renovated in the late 90s. Very cool.
       
        seg_lol wrote 4 days ago:
        Haven't seen one of these in years!
       
       
 (DIR) <- back to front page