_______               __                   _______
       |   |   |.---.-..----.|  |--..-----..----. |    |  |.-----..--.--.--..-----.
       |       ||  _  ||  __||    < |  -__||   _| |       ||  -__||  |  |  ||__ --|
       |___|___||___._||____||__|__||_____||__|   |__|____||_____||________||_____|
                                                             on Gopher (inofficial)
 (HTM) Visit Hacker News on the Web
       
       
       COMMENT PAGE FOR:
 (HTM)   Freeing a Xiaomi humidifier from the cloud
       
       
        skeledrew wrote 21 hours 5 min ago:
        This got me thinking about how my AC is somewhat ticking me off. A
        couple years ago I bought a smart AC, and when I got around to wanting
        to use the smart feature (via the app), I learned that I need to create
        a Tuya account and connect via that. Today I'm still manually pushing
        the buttons, as I wasn't having any of that, and the community Tuya
        tools I found out there are dependent on an account.
        
        A couple weeks ago I took a preliminary look jailbreaking it. Main
        thing holding me back is a fear of bricking it and being left with an
        expensive, oversized paperweight, as the electricity here tends to chip
        at random times and could do so just at a critical point of the
        process. It also bugs me that I can find 0 information about the
        device; it's like the "Bluesonik" brand doesn't have an internet
        presence. But perhaps one day I'll just throw caution to the wind and
        attempt a Tasmota flash (without even knowing if the board is
        supported) and hope for the best, similar to when I rooted and flashed
        my first Android phone for the first time 15 years ago.
       
        aeve890 wrote 1 day ago:
        A whole ass esp32 module in the board? Never seen something like that.
        I mean I've seen esp32 iot devices but with chips directly in the
        board, not as a separated module. It looks like hobbyist job.
       
        roger_ wrote 1 day ago:
        Pretty shocked that Xiaomi publishes the protocol:
        
 (HTM)  [1]: https://iot.mi.com/new/doc/accesses/direct-access/embedded-dev...
       
        rokoss21 wrote 1 day ago:
        Great project! This resonates with me - been using ESPHome for a year
        now and it's solid. One tip: if you're concerned about reliability,
        pair it with a PoE switch for your ESP devices. Makes recovery much
        easier if something goes wrong.
        
        Also curious about your power consumption - did you measure watts
        before/after switching from Xiaomi's cloud solution?
       
        hs586 wrote 1 day ago:
        Tangential rant: It’s becoming hard to buy dumb appliances.
        
        I was looking at robot vacuums, and most need internet connection at
        least for setup - by which point it’s already uploaded your floor
        plan and who knows what to the cloud.
       
          einsteinx2 wrote 1 day ago:
          Not sure that’s a great example when you can easily buy a regular
          vacuum. Robot vacuums are sort of by definition already the “smart
          appliance” version of the “dumb appliance regular vacuum”.
       
            hs586 wrote 1 day ago:
            I understand what you mean, but I disagree. The technology allows
            for robot vacuums to exist and I don’t see the cloud connection
            as a mandatory need for it. Similarly, I want my car to have say
            lane assist but we don’t expect to have cloud connection with it.
       
          gloxkiqcza wrote 1 day ago:
           [1] The project was recently discussed on HN as well. It has its
          issues but it works.
          
 (HTM)    [1]: https://valetudo.cloud/
       
        airstrike wrote 1 day ago:
        Can you do HP printers next
       
          kjkjadksj wrote 21 hours 42 min ago:
          I have an hp envy 5030. It has done nothing dystopian so far. Just
          acts as a dumb wlan printer it seems.
       
          CoastalCoder wrote 1 day ago:
          Yup!  Step 1: fill your printer with two liters of distilled water.
       
        N_Lens wrote 1 day ago:
        A humidifier needs network capability incase someone discovers a new
        version of water, or for the manufacturer to be able to patch remote
        exploits.
        
 (HTM)  [1]: https://xkcd.com/3109/
       
          piskov wrote 16 hours 38 min ago:
          “Smart” is useful in many ways:
          
          — you get notification on a phone when water is low;
          
          — you can set automations for stuff like lower speed (noise) at
          night;
          
          — make it turn off once the desired humidity is reached based on
          the other sensor (internal one is always off by 8-10% compared to a
          reading even 1m away).
       
          DocTomoe wrote 1 day ago:
          I'm all for KISS.
          
          But in a rare instance, xkcd is missing the point here. People do not
          live in their rooms 24/7, but they do want to be able to, e.g., turn
          stuff on or off remotely, or based on environmental conditions (turn
          on/off based on outside sensors or the current electricity price...)
          or to get status alerts ("tank empty, refill").
          
          Now, I do that via Home Assistant and keep anything "smart" on a
          highly-restricted vnet ... but not everyone is a geek. While the
          standard implementation (some cloud service) comes with a bouquet of
          problems, it basically acts as a simplified Home Assistant, and
          ultimately as a necessary crutch. Preferably we'd be in IPv6-land,
          where ISPs would not NAT everything to death and we could talk to our
          devices remotely without an intermediary ... but well ... it cannot
          be helped.
          
          "You're not going to need it" and "In my time, we just flipped a dumb
          switch" is paternalistic hogwash, not clever social commentary. Back
          in my days, we also didn't need satnav (just read a paper map), or
          cell phones (write them a note, leave it on the fridge, nothing is so
          important to demand imminence), or dishwashers (just do your dishes
          by hand)
       
            somehnguy wrote 1 day ago:
            I still think the value prop is dubious for a device like this.
            
            > turn stuff on or off remotely
            
            Why? Nearly all modern humidifiers have a sensor to measure
            humidity and will cycle on and off based on the setpoint. Getting
            to the setpoint also takes time so I don't see any reason someone
            would want to turn it on and off based on presence.
            
            > (turn on/off based on outside sensors or the current electricity
            price...)
            
            Not sure why the outside sensors would matter, it's concerned with
            the inside humidity which again it has a sensor to read. The amount
            of electricity these take to run isn't worth even mentioning.
            
            > get status alerts ("tank empty, refill")
            
            So you can refill it remotely? You have to be present to fill it
            anyway - just look at the thing and you'll know its water level
            
            I say all this as someone who also run Home Assistant and automates
            various things.
       
              mcsniff wrote 2 hours 35 min ago:
              It's a good thing personal choice exists and you don't make the
              rules for everyone.
              
              > I don't see any reason someone would want to turn it on and off
              based on presence.
              
              Maybe someone doesn't want the noise when they are present? Some
              people like white noise, some don't.
              
              > The amount of electricity these take to run isn't worth even
              mentioning.
              
              Not everyone lives where you do and pays the electricity rates
              you do. What about people who generate their own electricity,
              live off a grid, or just plain want to conserve energy for a
              myriad a reasons? Turning off specific loads based on XYZ is
              useful.
              
              > So you can refill it remotely? You have to be present to fill
              it anyway - just look at the thing and you'll know its water
              level
              
              Maybe the humidifier is in a low visible or less-trafficked area,
              and getting a reminder to fill it up would be useful.
              
              What a terrible take you have on people's use case not exactly
              matching yours.
       
              DocTomoe wrote 12 hours 19 min ago:
              Hm, I have the opposite setup - I operate a dehumidifier. The
              building I live in gets humid quickly, and that causes mould
              quickly. My tank fills. When the tank is full (and, depending on
              outside conditions and number of humans present, that happens
              anytime between 16 and 40 hours), the device stops dehumidifying
              to prevent tank overflow.
              
              Yes, I do still need to be present to empty the tank. But
              automated warnings  when the tank is full (in combination with
              more intense 'room's LED lightbulb flashing red' when BOTH the
              tank is full AND humidity rises above 60%) are nice - otherwise,
              I'd have more mental load to check a little tiny LED on the
              device itself every two days or so, which, surprise, I would keep
              forgetting.
              
              Why are outside sensors relevant in my use-case? Because running
              the dehumidifier is pointless when the window is open AND outside
              humidity exceeds inside humidity (and electricity is expensive
              where I live).
              
              Secondary use-case: mould and 'rentee did not air out the
              humidity correctly' are some of the more common points of
              conflict between landlords and rentees over here. With my smart
              dehumidifier (and a few more sensors placed around the apartment
              and outside), I have a paper trail should this ever come in front
              of a judge that yes, in fact, I correctly fought humidity.
              
              Is my use-case everyone's use-case? No. Am I probably
              over-engineering this? Sure, it's possible. Is it nice and kind
              to make broad paternalistic assumptions and snarky jokes on what
              and what not "anyone" really needs? Doubtful.
              
              You're arguing from device capability. I’m arguing from human
              cognitive load and failure modes.
              The question isn't "can the (de)humidifier regulate humidity on
              its own?", but "how many low-level checks and mental reminders
              does it eliminate over months of use?".
              For people who forget, get distracted, or simply want fewer
              things to keep in mind, that's not dubious value - it's the
              entire point.
       
            mrweasel wrote 1 day ago:
            Obviously all these smart appliance are about remote management,
            but I have to question how much usage it's getting in real life. My
            parents got a few smart devices for their holiday home, as my dad
            didn't want to drive 45 minutes both ways to check up on things
            during the winter. I think he probably ended up spending more time
            managing the IoT stuff that he ever did driving.
            
            It create to have the option to manage something remote, but when
            remote become the only option, the usability takes a dive. When I
            have to go find my phone, unlock it, find the app, possible update
            the app, find the right setting or menu, stare at "Failure to
            connect to device", and whatever else might go wrong, it's quicker
            and easier to just manage the device directly. We got rid of our
            robot vacuum clear, because it's literally quicker and better to go
            get our 20 year old regular vacuum, and the floor is done in 3
            minutes, not the 20+ the Roomba needs (and I needed to clear the
            room for it). When we used the Roomba, 99% of the time I pushed the
            "Start" button on the device, because it's way quicker than using
            the app.
            
            There's a place for smart devices, but they need to be much better
            and have local controls.
       
          techsystems wrote 1 day ago:
          Hah! How exact
       
          nrhrjrjrjtntbt wrote 1 day ago:
          Xkcd for everything as always
       
          alephnerd wrote 1 day ago:
          It's becuase Xiaomi integrated it just like all of it's other smart
          home products with Mijia - Xiaomi's smart home mesh [0].
          
          In Asia (but arguably the same in the West given the proliferation of
          Ring and smart home hubs), consumers have less of an aversion to
          smart home and connected products in general.
          
          Keeping IoT devices on a separate segmented network with strict
          DMZing, turning off unused features, and not sharing passwords would
          provide enough security for most home users. I recommend reading
          James Micken's essay "The World is Ours" [1] on the diminishing
          returns of certain security features at the expense of user
          experience. I also agree with it as someone who used to do edgy stuff
          with SHODAN as a teenager.
          
          HNers tend to be the minority amongst consumers, which is assuming
          the opposite of the HN herd mentality tends to be a fairly successful
          strategy.
          
          [0] - [1] -
          
 (HTM)    [1]: https://www.mi.com/global/smart-home/
 (HTM)    [2]: https://www.usenix.org/system/files/1401_08-12_mickens.pdf
       
        piskov wrote 1 day ago:
        On a tangent note: don’t use ultrasonic humidifiers. Unless distilled
        water is used, they create a shit-ton of pm2.5 particles.
        
        Use evaporative humidifiers (just disks with myriads of small notches
        for water to cling on and a fan):
        
 (HTM)  [1]: https://us.smartmiglobal.com/pages/smartmi-evaporative-humidif...
       
          kjkjadksj wrote 21 hours 52 min ago:
          Drying clothes indoors is also effective. When I set up my laundry
          rack rh can surge by 30%. I imagine setting up a tray of water under
          a ceiling fan might be similarly effective.
       
          numpad0 wrote 22 hours 29 min ago:
          Don't use evaporative humidifiers(the motorized wet towel). I don't
          know if it actually cause legionellosis, but it's not very sanitary,
          and the sanitizing additives for those are known to be actually
          harmful.
          
          Use boiling type humidifiers (basically just electric tea kettles).
       
            piskov wrote 18 hours 42 min ago:
            Water evaporates alomost completely and is changed daily (I rinse
            both container and disks in the tub with high-pressure mode from
            showerhead), so I don’t think any contamination is likely.
            
            Been doing this for years.
       
          marcinpieczka wrote 1 day ago:
          Are pm2.5 particles a problem if they are water soluble? After
          entering the body they will just dissolve.
       
            citrin_ru wrote 8 hours 25 min ago:
            Hard water often contains hard to dissolve minerals. An evaporative
            humidifier over the time accumulates limescale and it’s very
            difficult to remove it, you cannot just dissolve it. With
            ultrasound humidifier all this limescale will be in the air.
            Admittedly not in all regions the water is hard but if it is then
            ultrasound humidifier will be a bad choice.
       
            piskov wrote 18 hours 51 min ago:
            Depends whether you want that stuff in kidneys and what have you.
            
            Bigger particles are known to irritate the lungs and even cause
            asthma (google or ask gpt)
       
          wnevets wrote 1 day ago:
          > On a tangent note: don’t use ultrasonic humidifiers. Unless
          distilled water is used, they create a shit-ton of pm2.5 particles.
          
          Not according to my uHoo air quality monitor. I have had one running
          a few feet from the monitor for over a week and there hasn't been any
          notable increase in PM2.5 particles.
       
            kjkjadksj wrote 21 hours 47 min ago:
            The ones I had for a bit basically fogged out the apartment
            immediately and left white (i’m guessing salt) deposits all over
            everything. I know you are supposed to use distilled but it’s
            cost prohibitive at the rate these blow through water unless you
            also have a home distillery.
       
            piskov wrote 1 day ago:
            Last time I checked (brought my sensor to the office to one room
            with ultrasonic) it showed 101/105 ug/m3 for pm2.5/pm10
            
            In the next room (where there were none) it was 6.
            
            Depends on the water, I guess.
       
              wnevets wrote 1 day ago:
              How large is the space with the humidifier? My space is wide open
              and that might be the biggest reason for my lack of increased
              PM2.5 readings.
       
                klatchex_too wrote 22 hours 26 min ago:
                I think the parent poster is correct that it depends on the
                water.
                
                I have a couple ultrasonic humidifiers, if tap water is put in
                them it immediately sends the AQI on my air quality monitor
                into the "Dangerous" level. I have the monitor upstairs and it
                detected it when my girlfriend put tap water in the humidifier
                downstairs.
                
                Purified or distilled water works fine. I bought a counter top
                water distiller because it was a pain lugging 15 gallons of
                water into the house every week all winter. You can see the
                residue of whatever was in the tap water at the bottom of the
                distiller after it runs and it doesn't look like anything I
                would want to be breathing.
       
            Elucalidavah wrote 1 day ago:
            > any notable increase in PM2.5 particles
            
            What's your PM2.5 baseline, and did you measure TDS in the water?
       
              wintermutestwin wrote 1 day ago:
              Thanks to this post, I checked my ultrasonic filled with tap
              water. With it running all night in a bedroom with an open door,
              morning pm2.5 readings are ~30 and the meter is in the kitchen.
       
              wnevets wrote 1 day ago:
              Since Nov it's been fluctuating between 5-7 ug/mg, with a few
              spikes hitting 9 and 10. At this moment its a 6.
              
              I haven't checked the TDS but when I used a water test strip for
              an aquarium early this year it was in the hard water range.
       
          dheera wrote 1 day ago:
          I found this too. I wonder why they don't just accept a PUR water
          filter on the input side.
          
          I also wonder why mini-split heating systems drip and pool water
          outdoors instead of pumping that distilled water back indoors for
          humidification.
       
            throwawaysoxjje wrote 1 day ago:
            You’d need a reverse osmosis system, not just he charcoal filters
            like that
            
            And the condensate water from an AC evaporator coil is not anything
            like distilled water, dust/bacteria are also in it.
       
            Ekaros wrote 1 day ago:
            During summer dehumidification is needed in most areas.
            
            And it is really not distilled water. It gathers dust and so on
            from air. Distilling in more so closed circuit, where as those are
            very much open.
       
            ErroneousBosh wrote 1 day ago:
            > I also wonder why mini-split heating systems drip and pool water
            outdoors instead of pumping that distilled water back indoors for
            humidification.
            
            Do you want Legionnaire's Disease? Because that's how you get
            Legionnaire's Disease.
            
 (HTM)      [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976_Philadelphia_Legionnair...
       
            somat wrote 1 day ago:
            It's funny in an ironic way because the original purpose of air
            conditioners was to remove humidity from the air, the mechanism
            used was to cool the air down thus forcing some of the moisture
            out. The general public quickly caught on that having cool air was
            nice in it's own right and that is the main purpose these days.
            however the dehumidifying function is still sometimes used, people
            are surprised when their air conditioner turns on at the same time
            as the heater (why are they fighting each other?) but that is
            because the system is trying to remove moisture from the air before
            it is heated. Mainly seen in cars so the windows don't fog up.
            
            Probably something wrong with me but I just find it humorous trying
            to add moisture to a system designed to remove it. Really a
            reasonable request however, depending on where you live the air can
            get quite dry.
       
          dangus wrote 1 day ago:
          This is pretty crappy one-size-fits-all advice in itself.
          
          If you’re willing to use distilled water, ultrasonic humidifiers
          have their own advantages over evaporative.
          
          I’m personally willing to buy distilled water. It’s a dollar per
          gallon, and we only need the humidifier during a short few months.
          You can even buy a small countertop water distiller for under $60.
       
            bsder wrote 1 day ago:
            > If you’re willing to use distilled water, ultrasonic
            humidifiers have their own advantages over evaporative.
            
            Unless you are anally retentive about cleaning it, ultrasonic
            humidifiers vaporize microbes into the air.  There have been loads
            of studies about this.
            
            The only real way to avoid this is to use the humidifiers that are
            boiling the water.
       
              dangus wrote 21 hours 30 min ago:
              The real pro tip is to get a whole home humidifier. They aren’t
              even that expensive. But I haven’t taken the plunge yet.
              
              They avoid all these issues and require way less maintenance than
              any other solution.
       
                piskov wrote 16 hours 44 min ago:
                Can’t do that in the city :-)
       
                  dangus wrote 1 hour 16 min ago:
                  I've seen multi-unit condos with the ability to modify your
                  own HVAC, but I get where you're coming from.
       
            butvacuum wrote 1 day ago:
            I'm thoroughly unconvinced.
            
            Doing some basic research... hard water is overwhelmingly various
            carbonate and bicarbonates of magnesium, calcium, sulfur, iron,
            maganese, and aluminum. All of which are essential nutrients and 
            readily soluable in water.
            
            The other proposed problem was pathogen aerosols- however I was
            unable to access anything but an abstract. So, I don't know if they
            survived being aerosolized, produced more and/or worse pathogen
            count than evaporative humidifiers, Nor the size of the pathogens.
            
            It seems to me the known risk is mostly mechanical (Asthma,
            exacerbated COPD, etc) and nonpersistent (particles dissolve and
            are used or excreted via the same pathways as when consumed). With
            an unknown risk on the pathogen side.
       
          mytailorisrich wrote 1 day ago:
          How did we survive the last 3.5 billion years?
       
            wpm wrote 1 day ago:
            Quite poorly in fact
       
            gpm wrote 1 day ago:
            We didn't have access to modern technology... like ultrasonic
            speakers?
            
            Also we died at a young age. Everyone dying at 40 isn't
            incompatible with the species surviving but it's what advice like
            that is usually trying to avoid (and even less extreme outcomes).
       
              ErroneousBosh wrote 1 day ago:
              So up until about two or three years ago when everyone suddenly
              became terrified of "particulates", people died at 40?
              
              The Victorians called, they want their Night Air Panic back.
       
              SauntSolaire wrote 1 day ago:
              The concept of everyone dying at 40 is a myth/misunderstanding
              anyways - the reality was a lot more bimodal than that.
       
                gpm wrote 1 day ago:
                Eh, here it's more of a simplification than a myth as used in
                my comment. There are two effects:
                
                1. We've reduced infant (and childhood) mortality. My comment
                isn't talking about this effect but it did drag down average
                life expectancy substantially. Including this effect life
                expectancy at birth in the stone age might have been as low as
                20... but as you say the bimodality means this is a deceptive
                statistic when used this way.
                
                2. We've made it so you on average live longer even if you
                survive childhood, my comment is really just about this part of
                the effect. It's still a simplification because saying "on
                average if you survive childhood you die at 40" isn't the same
                as "everyone dies at 40" but closer to "adults die at all ages
                in a reasonable smooth monotonic curve and 40 is about the
                average age they live to but some get lucky and live to 80 or
                whatever". But then "don't use ultrasonic dehumidifiers" is
                like this too, using one won't kill you at some specific age,
                it will just slightly increase your chance of death every year
                for the rest of your life however long that ends up being.
                
                The number 40 was picked out of a hat, too. It should be right
                for some areas at some times just by coincidence though and
                since I was non-specific that makes me right ;)
       
                  somenameforme wrote 1 day ago:
                  The age 40 includes childhood mortality! It's difficult to
                  get records from prehistoric humans for obvious reasons, but
                  as early as Ancient Greece you had the upper class living
                  about as long as we do now a days. A study of men of the time
                  found the average life expectancy to be 71.3 years. [1] And
                  while the Bible includes plentiful mythological components,
                  it also includes many historical and contemporary accounts.
                  And this verse is certainly of the latter: "The length of our
                  days is generally seventy years, or eighty years if one is
                  strong, yet even the best of these years are filled with toil
                  and sorrow, for they pass quickly and we fly away." That is
                  part of the Old Testament (Psalms 90:10) that is believed to
                  have been written somewhere from 1400-1200BC.
                  
                  If you want more contemporary stuff that's completely
                  indisputable you can also take random selections of people of
                  renown. For instance the main Founding Fathers are a great
                  example because they all were relatively young when their
                  names become inexorably etched into history, yet their final
                  life expectancy is again well into the 70s. The youngest
                  major founding father to die was Hamilton, in a duel - at 49.
                  Then Hancock died at 56 - likely of gout which can be caused
                  by things like excessive indulgence. Next up was Washington
                  who died at 67, probably more of the cure than the disease -
                  he was leeched to the point of being pale as a ghost on his
                  death bed. Jefferson, Franklin, Madison, Sam Adams, John Jay
                  all lived to their 80s. John Adams made it to his 90s.
                  
                  ---
                  
                  I am not trying to claim these samples are representative.
                  These were wealthy individuals who would be relatively immune
                  to famine, war, and other such factors that could have a
                  catastrophic effect on lower classes. But when speaking of
                  life expectancy, I think we are implicitly asking the
                  question 'how long could somebody reasonably expect to live
                  xxxx years ago without access to modern medicine and
                  technology.' And that's what this sampling of people answers.
                  [1] -
                  
 (HTM)            [1]: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18359748/
       
                    Cpoll wrote 1 day ago:
                    > The length of our days is generally seventy years, or
                    eighty years if one is strong
                    
                    Which translation is that? Or are you paraphrasing?
                    
                    Most translations don't include "generally," and therefore
                    read more as an upper bound "if one is strong" than an
                    average.
       
                      somenameforme wrote 1 day ago:
                      Just a poor memory translation. Yeah, generally is
                      incorrect - though I think the correct phrasing also
                      implies an average age of natural death, rather than an
                      upper bound. There were certainly plenty of people living
                      past 80. In the aforementioned study of Ancient Greeks,
                      there were at least 3 centurions - Aristarchos,
                      Democritos, and Gorgias. Granted 1400BC is a thousand
                      years yet prior to that already ancient time, but life
                      peaks seem to be relatively unmoving for humans, and so I
                      don't see any major reason to think there would have been
                      a major difference between 400BC and 1400BC.
       
            HappyJoy wrote 1 day ago:
            A lot of us didn't
       
              SauntSolaire wrote 1 day ago:
              Glad to know that's solved now
       
          nvch wrote 1 day ago:
          The best solution I've found a few years ago is one Venta LW 45 for
          every 30 m² of space. That's enough to run them on the lowest speed
          while maintaining acceptable humidity and CO₂ levels.
          
          Higher speeds are too noisy. Smaller machines evaporate less.
          
          For sub-zero outside temperatures, it's necessary to add at least 5 g
          of water to each cubic metre of air coming from outside.
          
          The recommended ventilation rate of 30 m³/h per person requires to
          evaporate 4 liters of water per day.
       
            piskov wrote 17 hours 9 min ago:
            Chinese I’ve mentioned blew Ventra out of the water. I’ve been
            using humidifiers for the last 15 years and switched to smartme
            around 5 or something like that (liked the idea of auto speed and
            was tired of aged squickness after many years of its predecessor).
            
            Haven’t used the first generation. Had a couple of the second
            (they notoriously had water level sensor issue that could be fixed
            just enabling “drying mode” that always ran for 8h after the
            sensor thought there were no water).
            
            Third gen is the charm.
            
            Cheap, effective (pump, double-bottom for rounded instead of flat
            tank — uses evry last drop), quiter, 5L tank, less creak after a
            few years.
            
            tldr; I only wish it lasted whole 24 hours when it is -5C and lower
            outside, but I guess that requires 7-8L.
            
            Also, having a few helps with the noise (I have total of three in
            my apartment).
       
            dalyons wrote 1 day ago:
            That’s a lot of refilling. You might want to look into a whole
            house humidifier, I added an aprilaire 700 evaporative to my hvac
            ducts, it costs a few hundred $. Plumbed in, automatic. So much
            less screwing around
       
              gessha wrote 1 day ago:
              What sort of maintenance do you have to do on it?
       
                dalyons wrote 20 hours 23 min ago:
                Once a season / 6 mo of running you replace the evaporator
                panel, which is ~$50 for branded or $10 for amazon copies.
       
            noitpmeder wrote 1 day ago:
            Which venta are you referencing here?
       
              mercnet wrote 1 day ago:
              They are referencing [1] I also have one and love how easy it is
              to clean.
              
 (HTM)        [1]: https://www.venta-air.com/en_us/product/lw45-original-hu...
       
                SauntSolaire wrote 1 day ago:
                For $500 it better clean itself
       
                  InsideOutSanta wrote 1 day ago:
                  I bought two Ventas well over a decade ago, and they still
                  work as well as the day I bought them. They're an expensive
                  initial investment, but IMO worth it over the long run.
                  
                  They are also mechanically simple, so I trust that if they
                  ever break, I will be able to repair them.
       
          esaym wrote 1 day ago:
          > Use evaporative humidifiers
          
          You don't have to buy one either. A suspended wet towel with a fan
          blowing on it will work very well. If you want to get fancy, have the
          last inch or two of the towel sitting in a tray of water.
       
            piskov wrote 17 hours 0 min ago:
            I’m not sure that has a performance of 0.3L per hour (needed when
            it’s real cold outside).
            
            But any thing beats nothing, I guess. Kudos to you
       
            abraae wrote 1 day ago:
            My brother's house in Perth, Australia has an antique air
            conditioning system in the roof space that works in exactly this
            principle. 4 blankets that wick up water and have air drawn through
            them and into the house by a fan. It's in disuse now but I
            understand they were common and quite effective in the day.
       
            jgalt212 wrote 1 day ago:
            That's a permanent bachelor design aesthetic.
       
              Etheryte wrote 1 day ago:
              Turns out young me was on to something, I wasn't just leaving wet
              towels laying around, I was fixing the air humidity problem.
       
            loloquwowndueo wrote 1 day ago:
            But then I have to buy the towel and the fan, the tray, something
            to suspend the towel at the right height …
       
              dependency_2x wrote 1 day ago:
              This is cheaper, and the towel and fan can be repurposed. Just
              buy a 3D printer for making the the suspension part (/jest)
       
          kccqzy wrote 1 day ago:
          Distilled water isn’t strictly necessary. I use mine with purified
          water with a reverse osmosis purifier. I periodically test the TDS of
          the water to confirm it is low. It’s fine.
       
            piskov wrote 1 day ago:
            I’ve run dyson ultrasonic humidifiers for a few years. The whole
            appartment was in white dust.
            
            Especially evident on some black leather bags in the wardrobe.
       
              kccqzy wrote 19 hours 53 min ago:
              You can buy a cheap tester for TDS (total dissolved solids) for
              <$20. Test the water before pouring it into any ultrasonic
              humidifier.
       
                piskov wrote 18 hours 49 min ago:
                I just switched to evaporative ones like smartmi I’ve
                mentioned.
       
          neilv wrote 1 day ago:
          That Smartmi model seems to have toxic IoT in it.
          
          I'm currently using the Vornado EV100 non-IoT evaporative humidifier,
          and my only complaints are relatively minor, as humidifiers go
          (consumable wick, fan noise, insanely bright blue LEDs).
          
 (HTM)    [1]: https://www.vornado.com/shop/humidifiers/evaporative/ev100-e...
       
            piskov wrote 1 day ago:
            You don’t need to connect it — works completely offline.
            
            Also no consumable parts there: just plastic disks which you clean
            with couple of spoons of citric acid dissolved in water from time
            to time.
       
              NewJazz wrote 1 day ago:
              Couldn't you just use vinegar?
       
          jborichevskiy wrote 1 day ago:
          Alec from Technology Connections also has a great video comparing
          humidifiers here
          
 (HTM)    [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHeehYYgl28
       
       
 (DIR) <- back to front page