Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:31:25 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <200411102031.iAAKVP8e093586@xl2.seyza.com>
From: Thomas Lord <lord@emf.net>
To: stephen@xemacs.org
In-reply-to: <87r7n374by.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> (stephen@xemacs.org)
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: [Gnu-arch-users] Re: Re: community spirit
References: <200411010336.iA13af6p023128@xl2.seyza.com>
	<20041101141701.GB9161@puritan.pcp.ath.cx>
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	<20041101144826.GD9161@puritan.pcp.ath.cx> <41867B20.1020608@melon.dk>
	<2982EA60-2C38-11D9-8C6F-000393CFE6B8@spy.net>
	<4186917E.3030209@melon.dk> <20041101232959.GA25080@hezmatt.org>
	<87ekjcswdn.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <418765A9.2040206@diku.dk>
	<878y9kpfcm.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
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    > From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen@xemacs.org>

    >     Thomas> Next moves if that /isn't/ the game? --- hmmm i dunno.
    >     Thomas> "Me" making "them" an offer that's "/easy/ to refuse (and
    >     Thomas> hopefully easier to accept)?"

    > Good luck, but I'm afraid you lack the vocabulary to phrase an
    > acceptable offer.

>From my perspective, you have expressed fear that those whom I've
addressed are bigots and/or illiterates.  So I hope you are wrong and
I act on that basis.

Yeah, sure --- consider me "trailer trash", asshole[*].   Anyway, back
to business.

    [*] words are funny.  "they" don't use swears and recognized
        insults so much but, as one who grew up in their community of
        discourse -- well, they just use more "refined" swears and
        insults, often when they presume the target of them isn't
        familiar with /their/ vocuabulary.  There is little that is
        more vicariously embarassing than a preppy in the same room
        who /thinks/ he is talking over your head about you to a third
        party.  So, when I casually swear and insult to convey nuance, 
        at least I am not trying to deceive, like some people do.


    >     Thomas> The opposite of bribery and price fixing and other forms
    >     Thomas> of economic hostility is progressive commerce, more or
    >     Thomas> less, no?

    >     Thomas> And the opposite of public to-the-death debate is private
    >     Thomas> consultation in a spirit of community, yes?

    > *sigh*  No, and no.  This is precisely what I meant above by "lack the
    > vocabulary."

I get enough feedback from people /not/ of "their" class to be
confident that I have clearly expressed a proposal for a friendly and 
positive development.   I get enough feedback from people /of/ "their"
class to know that there are no class-based barriers to having a
grand-ol'-time at a sitdown with these folks.   If you want to excuse
them on the choice of "vocabulary", maybe the next question becomes
why some groups make such a fetish of that.   But mostly, I don't
consider you to be, in /this/ corner of the discussion, a spokesman
for "them".

To the extent that you speak for "them", my reply is: "Grow up, ya'
pansies.  I'm here to talk business with you just fine, once you get
over yourselves.  Don't be so afraid of a word.   Just because I call
you a fuckhead doesn't mean I regard you as a fuckhead -- that's
pretty obvious to just about any /normal/ person."


-t


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