Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 12:54:04 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <200411082054.iA8Ks4ap083122@xl2.seyza.com>
From: Thomas Lord <lord@emf.net>
To: stephen@xemacs.org
In-reply-to: <87lldfe8la.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> (stephen@xemacs.org)
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: [Gnu-arch-users] Re: Re: community spirit
References: <200411010336.iA13af6p023128@xl2.seyza.com>
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	<2982EA60-2C38-11D9-8C6F-000393CFE6B8@spy.net>
	<4186917E.3030209@melon.dk> <20041101232959.GA25080@hezmatt.org>
	<87ekjcswdn.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <418765A9.2040206@diku.dk>
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    > From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen@xemacs.org>

    >     Thomas> Where does that leave such willfully ignorant execs in my
    >     Thomas> moral calculus?

    > Well, since you ask: it should leave them _outside_ of the _moral_
    > calculus.  Evaluating others is not moral behavior: moral evaluations
    > are first person, "I/we should/should not do ...".  Of course it is
    > often necessary to morally evaluate others' _behavior_, in order to
    > determine whether "you and me" can become "we" in the moral calculus.

Are you saying:

	Moral judgement are applicable to actions, behavior, and
        attitudes -- not to individual people.   Thus, you 
        are wrong to place ignorant execs within your moral
        calculus.

?

That I would agree with.   I would have better said:

	Where does that leave such willfully ignorant 
        /behavior on the part of/ so many key execs in my
        moral calculus?

A subtle but worthwhile improvement.  In terms of the "takeaway" from
this thread that an exec might make?  Well, that improvement might
save them a few minutes worth of a therapy session, but that's about
it.   To the (persumably large) extent the identify with their
behavior as execs: it /is/ important to emphasize that the behavior
can change while the person remains integrated.

But are you also saying:

	Moral judgements are important only for evaluating
        the possibility of an alliance.  ("whether ``you and me''
        can become ``we''.)

Many people on the right would disagree strongly and sharply with
that.  And me, here on the left, would side with them.

-t


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