Received: from spf3.us4.outblaze.com (spf3.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.25]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4KQXSH021441 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 20:26:33 GMT Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by spf3.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2056547B5 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 20:11:58 +0000 (GMT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CPo5p-0002Lb-0p for migo@homemail.com; Thu, 04 Nov 2004 15:20:25 -0500 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CPo5K-0002L6-Fb for gnu-arch-users@gnu.org; Thu, 04 Nov 2004 15:19:54 -0500 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CPo5J-0002Kl-RZ for gnu-arch-users@gnu.org; Thu, 04 Nov 2004 15:19:54 -0500 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CPo5J-0002Kb-PZ for gnu-arch-users@gnu.org; Thu, 04 Nov 2004 15:19:53 -0500 Received: from [144.140.70.20] (helo=gizmo10bw.bigpond.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CPnx6-0000CA-Is for gnu-arch-users@gnu.org; Thu, 04 Nov 2004 15:11:25 -0500 Received: (qmail 30055 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2004 20:11:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bwmam13.bigpond.com) (144.135.24.106) by gizmo10bw.bigpond.com with SMTP; 4 Nov 2004 20:11:22 -0000 Received: from cpe-144-132-211-224.nsw.bigpond.net.au ([144.132.211.224]) by bwmam13.bigpond.com(MAM REL_3_4_2a 198/105094858) with SMTP id 105094858; Fri, 05 Nov 2004 06:11:22 +1000 Received: by poolcompsonline.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id E3D8F7963F; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 07:13:57 +1100 Subject: Re: [Gnu-arch-users] OT: trained dependency From: Zenaan Harkness To: arch In-Reply-To: <200411041956.iA4Ju6T2055477@xl2.seyza.com> References: <200411010336.iA13af6p023128@xl2.seyza.com> <20041101141701.GB9161@puritan.pcp.ath.cx> <87wtx51w70.fsf@beeblebrox.rfc1149.net> <20041101144826.GD9161@puritan.pcp.ath.cx> <41867B20.1020608@melon.dk> <2982EA60-2C38-11D9-8C6F-000393CFE6B8@spy.net> <4186917E.3030209@melon.dk> <20041101232959.GA25080@hezmatt.org> <87ekjcswdn.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <418765A9.2040206@diku.dk> <878y9kpfcm.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <200411022006.iA2K6Q1n036262@xl2.seyza.com> <1099430686.10774.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> <87actzvpnb.fsf@cenderis.demon.co.uk> <1099438163.10774.72.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1099448957.10774.118.camel@localhost.localdomain> <87u0s6n8da.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <1099516340.10774.153.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200411041956.iA4Ju6T2055477@xl2.seyza.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Message-Id: <1099599237.10774.323.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 07:13:57 +1100 X-BeenThere: gnu-arch-users@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: a discussion list for all things arch-ish List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: gnu-arch-users-bounces+migo=homemail.com@gnu.org Errors-To: gnu-arch-users-bounces+migo=homemail.com@gnu.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sdf.lonestar.org id iA4KQXSH021441 Status: RO Content-Length: 2949 Lines: 71 On Fri, 2004-11-05 at 06:56, Thomas Lord wrote: > > From: Zenaan Harkness > > > Quote from that page: "Perhaps the greatest of school's illusions is > > that the institution was launched by a group of kindly men and women who > > wanted to help the children of ordinary familiesto level the playing > > field, so to speak." > > What's the a priori argument against public schools rather than the > historic one? > > While historically, public schools may (or may not) have an ugly > origin, /some/ today have certainly evolved into great institutions. > Intuitively, public education has a lot of appeal for me: partly > because the idea of a coherent "public space" has a lot of appeal and > schools seem like a place to manufacture that; partly because public > schools are (potentially!) very economically efficient. > > So, is there something /inherent/ in public schooling that makes it > evil? No. I agree with you that they could (and actually were for some time) achieving (at least a fair part) of what they "should" achieve - to educate people. The level of education going on has _by design_ significantly dropped. Various things may be part of a good overall solution, except that the currently public school system's layered beaurocracy and surrounding pork-barrel industry is so entrenched it is likely it would need to be scrapped first, and started from scratch. Some things that might benefit: - letters and sounds ("decoding" reading) vs. picture words ("heiroglyphic" reading) - free form classes (not limited to x minutes, where, if you are deeply in thought or analysis of something, you can continue until you personally decide to move to something new - mixed age group classes (hard to work I'd guess without somewhat free form classes) - change schools from a national government jobs and procurement (pork dishing) project (the reason schools pay more for supplies that individuals can buy at the supermarket, sacrificing all economies of scale that should be inherent in such a large institution) to an educational project - teach real subjects like history instead of watered down subjects like "social studies" - And the BIG one: a free market in teaching - give parents the choice of where to spend their student's educational dollars (ie. free market for teachers, teaching methods and learning materials). I believe this would have the most drastic effect on the system (gutting the old system and instituting a nation of people aware of, and aiming to, benefit themselves, based on free market "performance" of alternatives, rather than beaurocracy-dictated pork-barrel spending - that's a massive difference right there). cheers zen _______________________________________________ Gnu-arch-users mailing list Gnu-arch-users@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnu-arch-users GNU arch home page: http://savannah.gnu.org/projects/gnu-arch/