From: Digestifier To: Subject: Dead-Flames Digest #703 Dead-Flames Digest #703, Volume #48 Fri, 28 Oct 05 14:00:01 PDT Contents: Re: New England Skiers!!!! ("Dave Kelly") Re: NDC Neo-con traitor indicted ("Deke_Rivers") Re: Condi v Hillary 2008? ("Everybody's Gonna Be Happy") Re: List of those to lie in honor at Capitol Rotunda ("Everybody's Gonna Be Happy") gimme gimme some a ("Roxanne McDaniel") Re: Condi v Hillary 2008? ("Roxanne McDaniel") Re: NDC Neo-con traitor indicted ("Roxanne McDaniel") Re: Is Steve Kimock really this bad? (JC Martin) Re: Bob Set/Phil Set 10-27 (JimK) Re: Is Steve Kimock really this bad? (naught@nil.com) SKB 10-27 Newmarket NH ("Nick's Picks") Re: NDC Neo-con traitor indicted (JimK) Re: Rove gets pass???? (leftie) Re: Is Steve Kimock really this bad? Re: Bob Set/Phil Set 10-27 ("s. craw") Re: Bob Set/Phil Set 10-27 (leftie) Re: NDC Neo-con traitor indicted (Ken Fortenberry) Re: gimme gimme some a ("pbleers@hotmail.com") Re: NDC Neo-con traitor indicted ("DevsVult") ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dave Kelly" Subject: Re: New England Skiers!!!! Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 19:29:43 GMT May I remind you that real men DONT ski. Whats next for you, nantucket? Figure skating? ------------------------------ From: "Deke_Rivers" Subject: Re: NDC Neo-con traitor indicted Date: 28 Oct 2005 12:31:36 -0700 >Zionism is racism and racism is *never* in our national interest. >No two-state solution will ever work in Palestine. Palestine will >be secular, democratic, safe home to Christians, Muslims and Jews Oh yes, very safe for Jews, ask the president of Iran!! Pierre ------------------------------ From: "Everybody's Gonna Be Happy" Subject: Re: Condi v Hillary 2008? Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:34:29 -0700 wrote in message news:1130518264.747452.82580@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com... > Everybody's Gonna Be Happy wrote: > She may have more geo-political knowledge than Bush, but that doesn't > mean Bush is any less intelligent. Bush does not have a foreign policy > background. Considering that Bush has been president for more than 5 years he ought to have a foreign policy background by now. Nope. No such background exists. His Iraq war misadventure contained more false assumptions (followed by more lies) than any conflict the US has ever been involved in. He knew less than nothing about Iraq, Iraqis, the factions, the ethnic groups, the religious sects, the history of the country, or its physical and economic infrastructure before deciding to invade, conquer, and occupy it. An intelligent person would do his homework before making such a decision. Instead Bush relied on his gut feelings. He's a real dope alright. EGBH ------------------------------ From: "Everybody's Gonna Be Happy" Subject: Re: List of those to lie in honor at Capitol Rotunda Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:38:35 -0700 "wyeknot" wrote in message news:3sf7k0Fo1s3fU1@individual.net... > List of those to lie in honor at Capitol Rotunda > > 1852: Henry Clay, Kentucky representative, senator and sec'y of state. > 1865: Abraham Lincoln, president. > 1868: Thaddeus Stevens, Pennsylvania member of the House. > 1874: Charles Sumner, Massachusetts senator. > 1875: Henry Wilson, Massachusetts senator, vice president. > 1881: James Garfield, president. > 1886: John Alexander Logan, Illinois representative and senator. > 1901: William McKinley, president. > 1909: Pierre Charles L'Enfant, architect who designed Washington, D.C. > 1917: George Dewey, admiral, hero of Manila Bay in Spanish-American War. > 1921: Unknown soldier of World War I. > 1923: Warren Harding, president. > 1930: William Howard Taft, president. > 1948: John Pershing, general of the armies of the United States. > 1953: Robert Taft, Ohio senator. > 1958: Unknown soldiers of World War II and the Korean War. > 1963: John F. Kennedy, president. > 1964: Douglas MacArthur, general during World War II, Korean War. > 1964: Herbert Hoover, president. > 1969: Dwight D. Eisenhower, president. > 1969: Everett Dirksen, Illinois representative, senator. > 1972: J. Edgar Hoover, first FBI director. > 1973: Lyndon Johnson, president. > 1978: Hubert Humphrey, vice president, Minnesota senator. > 1984: Unknown soldier of the Vietnam era. > 1989: Claude Pepper, Florida representative, senator. > 1998: Jacob Chestnut and John Gibson, slain Capitol police officers. > 2004: Ronald Reagan, president. > 2005: Rosa Parks Parks will be donning the same lovely cocktail dress first worn in the Rotunda by J. E. Hoover. Its been 30 years, so its back in style. EGBH ------------------------------ From: "Roxanne McDaniel" Subject: gimme gimme some a Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 19:39:35 GMT .....Ratdog! Anyone in Chi-town make it to the show last night??? ------------------------------ From: "Roxanne McDaniel" Subject: Re: Condi v Hillary 2008? Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 19:42:57 GMT Does it really matter WHICH woman it is? Just let one in there to clean up this mess! ------------------------------ From: "Roxanne McDaniel" Subject: Re: NDC Neo-con traitor indicted Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 19:54:55 GMT "DevsVult" wrote in message "Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message > JC Martin wrote: > > Ken Fortenberry wrote: > >> Zionism is racism and racism is *never* in our national interest. > >> > >> No two-state solution will ever work in Palestine. Palestine will > >> be secular, democratic, safe home to Christians, Muslims and Jews > >> alike who live with each other in peace or it will be perpetual war. > >> It may take an international peace-keeping force to make it so but > >> creating two states in an area as small as Palestine is inherently > >> racist and will never, ever work. > > > > It's the only way it'll ever be. The land is worthless (other than to > > the extremists on both sides) without Israel's economy. The reason > > Palestine is so desirable has much to do with what Israel has done with > > the land in recent history. > > Like steal it, you mean ? > > -- > Ken Fortenberry No he means making it blossom with life......... ****************************** "We are inevitably our brother's keeper because we are our brother's brother. Whatever affects one directly affects all indirectly." ~Martin Luther King Jr. "Exclusion is always dangerous. Inclusion is the only safety if we are to have a peaceful world." ~Pearl S. Buck ------------------------------ From: JC Martin Subject: Re: Is Steve Kimock really this bad? Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 19:56:22 GMT naught@nil.com wrote: > JC Martin wrote: > >>Really? On what level would you say? Compositionally, I'm not blown >>away. Someone like Fleck (another jam-jazzy-lite guy) is far more >>sophisticated harmonically and his compositions bear that out. > > > Visit the kimock discussion forum some time and you'll see. He's into the > whole Mathieu overtone thing (Mathieu's approach to harmony was a big > influence on later Coltrane). Many of Mathieu's approaches to harmony are rather simple. Studying some of theories doesn't make you a jazz player. Playing against a drone or a static chord for instance. Coltrane's later work actually discarded harmony all together and focused more of erecting vertical stacks of randomness and then weaving through those stacks to find new notes. >I've heard Kimock play bebop and wonderful > chord melody stuff over the years--he knows all that stuff inside and > out--he just largely rejects it in terms of composition and improv. Disagree. I know Kimock's playing very well. > Listen to, for example, his version of Alice in Wonderland at Fayetteville > a few years ago. It's very nice bebop style stuff. Kimock couldn't play bebop to save his life. And modern jazz (bebop and beyond) requires constant practice just to be able to hang with a jazz rhythm section, much less execute all the chord substitutions and improvisation that goes on within that context. >As far as the Mathieu > thing, check out his post from the forum taking on the traditional view of > chord substitution: > > http://www.online-discussion.com/SteveKimock/viewtopic.php?t=192 > > You can argue whether the final product is "good" or not, but it would be > totally wrong to try to say he doesn't have a strong understanding of > harmony. I know Mathieu's work. He's a good primer for anyone looking to expand their harmonic capabilities. Kimock is player who has a more advanced sense of harmony than you average rock musician. But that's no mindblowing feat for a dedicated musician IMO. If you're gonna argue that Kimock is a great guitarist because of his harmonic superiority over other musicians, that's an argument to lose. I don't doubt however that Kimock has a firm grasp of musical fundamentals. But he can't execute and bebop solo played at a regular clip. -JC ------------------------------ From: JimK Subject: Re: Bob Set/Phil Set 10-27 Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 16:04:49 -0400 Reply-To: jkezwind@comcast.net On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 17:00:53 GMT, "Bradish" wrote: > >"JimK" wrote in message >news:tci4m1lg9acs64vof25u22tobcr00iqh35@4ax.com... >> On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 14:59:45 GMT, "Bradish" wrote: >> >>> >>> wrote in message >>>news:1130509529.776555.272600@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... >>>> >>>> Olompali4 wrote: >>>>> Ratdog >>>> >>>>> Eyes > Stronger than Dirt > Eyes >>>> >>>> That sounds interesting. >>> >>>It would have been interesting around 30 years ago. >>> >>>Now its oldies night >>> >> Either it was well played or it wasn't. The age of the songs is >> irrelevant to the issue of whether the music was interesting. >> > >I was refering to the age of the participants and the leader in particular. >Plus, no Jerry makes it empty, IMHO > Either it was well played or it wasn't. The age of the musicians is irrelevant to the issue of whether the music was interesting. Jerry's dead. Music is still alive. If you don't like the music because you think it isn't any good, that's fine. If you don't like the music because Jerry's not playing it, that's just silly. JimK ------------------------------ From: naught@nil.com Subject: Re: Is Steve Kimock really this bad? Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 20:10:40 +0000 (UTC) JC Martin wrote: > > > Many of Mathieu's approaches to harmony are rather simple. Studying > some of theories doesn't make you a jazz player. Playing against a > drone or a static chord for instance. Coltrane's later work actually > discarded harmony all together and focused more of erecting vertical > stacks of randomness and then weaving through those stacks to find new > notes. OFFS, JC, Mathieu's harmony, like all others, ranges from simple to very complex. Form what I understand, it was the basis for much of Coltrane's thinking during his peak years, and led directly to the later more experimental stuff you describe. > > >>I've heard Kimock play bebop and wonderful >> chord melody stuff over the years--he knows all that stuff inside and >> out--he just largely rejects it in terms of composition and improv. > > > Disagree. I know Kimock's playing very well. > What are you disagreeing with? He rejects tradtional jazz harmony and composition as something he doesn't enjoy and has said so a number of times. Whether he can play it or not is a matter of opinion, but having played with him hundreds of not thousands of times myself over the last 30 years, the times we've ventured there he's sure fooled me into thinking he can play it. > > > Kimock couldn't play bebop to save his life. And modern jazz (bebop and > beyond) requires constant practice just to be able to hang with a jazz > rhythm section, much less execute all the chord substitutions and > improvisation that goes on within that context. > Well, I suppose that its a matter of opinion, Im not sure how you'd have formed one given you've never heard him play it. > I know Mathieu's work. He's a good primer for anyone looking to expand > their harmonic capabilities. Kimock is player who has a more advanced > sense of harmony than you average rock musician. But that's no > mindblowing feat for a dedicated musician IMO. If you're gonna argue > that Kimock is a great guitarist because of his harmonic superiority > over other musicians, that's an argument to lose. I don't doubt however > that Kimock has a firm grasp of musical fundamentals. But he can't > execute and bebop solo played at a regular clip. > > -JC Ah, JC, you're harkening back to an previous release, maybe JC MArtin 1.1, where you decree "facts" with no basis. I certainly don't argue that he's a great player because he knows harmony. In fact, I'd argue that there's little correlaitonbetween greatness and harmonic understanding. As to whether he could play bebop at a "regular clip," well, again how on earth would you know so definitvely? Finally, your view of Mathieu is certainly one I don't. If you have such a keen understanding of Mathieu (which, I think would be a requirement to such easy dismissal), why not interpret the Kimock posting I cited in language that we lesser folks can understand? ------------------------------ From: "Nick's Picks" Subject: SKB 10-27 Newmarket NH Date: 28 Oct 2005 13:21:56 -0700 Lucky New Hampshire! Two kimmie shows this year. Last night was the 2nd appearance at the Stone Church, a 200 person maximum "bar" w/a decent PA system. A decent show, but not the roaring SKB that i've heard. In fact, Steve never seemed to pick it up...never got off the ground so to speak. It was solid, and there was some serious funky shit w/the new lineup. Robert Walter is a mean hammond player..and just great overall. Some of his solos were more rousing than Steves. It was great seeing some RMGDers.. Tim! and chuck. :) I'm uploading to archive right now. its a vvveeerrrry nice recording. mics were 10' off stage, dfc. you missed some good tapin' action Booie. We were in front of the firts beam, right in front of the stage. was hoping to see you there. June was better, IMO. some pics, and an mp3 of the cover "funky miracle" by the Meeters. www.nickspicks.com/images/skb thanks to Steve and crew. Charle..Arielle..etc. good times! enjoy! ------------------------------ From: JimK Subject: Re: NDC Neo-con traitor indicted Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 16:24:41 -0400 Reply-To: jkezwind@comcast.net On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 14:38:28 -0400, "DevsVult" wrote: > >"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message >news:5ft8f.3770$8W.3631@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com... >> Why in the hell has it taken this long to indict that >> preppie, neo-con, traiterous son-of-a-bitch ? I mean >> shouldn't it be illegal to be older than 19 and still >> be called "Scooter" ? And shouldn't Dick Cheney be >> locked in a room and sexually assaulted by a horny as >> hell 800 pound gorilla fired up on cheap meth ? >> >> Inquiring minds need to know. >> >> -- >> Ken Fortenberry > > You just can't stand the fact that the so called neo-cons value Israel and >include her safety and protection in their efforts to eliminate threats to >our own security. You i would say approach traitor to a greater degree in >thought and expression though thankfully not in influence than any of >those crafting our foriegn policy.May your world view never prevail in this >Nations leadership. > Is that you, Heresy? Those odd spaces and bad punctuation sure look familiar. JimK ------------------------------ From: leftie Subject: Re: Rove gets pass???? Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 13:26:21 -0700 JC Martin wrote: > leftie wrote: > >> JC Martin wrote: >> >>> leftie wrote: >>> >>>> kpnnews@yahoo.com wrote: >>>> >>>>> Scooter is but a pawn in how policy is implimented >>>>> today; >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Horseshit. Scooter nhelps design and implement policy. He's Cheney's >>>> Cheney, the VP's own personal Rove. >>> >>> >>> >>> I actually have to agree. >> >> >> >> That's twice in one month we agree. Something seems amiss in the >> universe. ;-) > > > > Let's just say I'm on a highway and a big red and blue elephant appears > from the right side of road. Which way should I veer? ;-) You don't want me to answer that question. (j/k!) ;-) ------------------------------ From: Subject: Re: Is Steve Kimock really this bad? Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 13:28:52 -0700 imsjry wrote: : No, he isn't that bad. But it is elevator music. Agreed. I really liked Steve's early work with The Other Ones as well as with Zero but when I listened to his new CD, I immediately decided to pass on that one. Rather boring to me. It's not a move in the right direction and the music ain't pleasing to me. b. ------------------------------ From: "s. craw" Subject: Re: Bob Set/Phil Set 10-27 Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 20:49:08 GMT but there may be a point to saying THAT music can't be played well by anyone BUT garcia. kinda like how you might feel hearing lawrence welk singing one more saturday nite. ------------------------------ From: leftie Subject: Re: Bob Set/Phil Set 10-27 Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 13:52:23 -0700 s. craw wrote: > but there may be a point to saying THAT music can't be played well by anyone > BUT garcia. kinda like how you might feel hearing lawrence welk singing one > more saturday nite. There is a point like that. But it's not correct. ------------------------------ From: Ken Fortenberry Subject: Re: NDC Neo-con traitor indicted Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 20:55:35 GMT DevsVult wrote: > "Ken Fortenberry" wrote: >>JC Martin wrote: >>> ... The land is worthless (other than to >>>the extremists on both sides) without Israel's economy. The reason >>>Palestine is so desirable has much to do with what Israel has done with >>>the land in recent history. >> >>Like steal it, you mean ? > > > No he means making it blossom with life......... That's part and parcel of the Zionist propaganda. Palestine had no vineyards, no orchards, no olive trees, no figs, no dates, no agriculture period, not to mention no culture of any kind. There was nothing in Palestine except a bunch of filthy Arabs squatting in the sand, having too many babies and eating their dogs. Until the brave and industrious and good-hearted Zionists came along. And now Palestine blossoms with life. That bullshit may resonate with feel-good patriotic fervor in your simpleminded, Sunday School version of Palestinian history but in reality it's racist nonsense. -- Ken Fortenberry ------------------------------ From: "pbleers@hotmail.com" Subject: Re: gimme gimme some a Date: 28 Oct 2005 13:56:04 -0700 Nope. I passed. The last few times I saw them wasnt worth the effort. Set list looks decent though. Any reports? ------------------------------ From: "DevsVult" Subject: Re: NDC Neo-con traitor indicted Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 16:57:56 -0400 "Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message news:bfw8f.3410$Y61.2847@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com... > DevsVult wrote: > > "Ken Fortenberry" wrote: > >>JC Martin wrote: > >>> ... The land is worthless (other than to > >>>the extremists on both sides) without Israel's economy. The reason > >>>Palestine is so desirable has much to do with what Israel has done with > >>>the land in recent history. > >> > >>Like steal it, you mean ? > > > > > > No he means making it blossom with life......... > > That's part and parcel of the Zionist propaganda. Palestine > had no vineyards, no orchards, no olive trees, no figs, no > dates, no agriculture period, not to mention no culture of > any kind. There was nothing in Palestine except a bunch of > filthy Arabs squatting in the sand, having too many babies > and eating their dogs. Until the brave and industrious and > good-hearted Zionists came along. And now Palestine blossoms > with life. > > That bullshit may resonate with feel-good patriotic fervor > in your simpleminded, Sunday School version of Palestinian > history but in reality it's racist nonsense. > > -- > Ken Fortenberry no it isn't. ------------------------------ ** FOR YOUR REFERENCE ** The service addresses, to which questions about the list itself and requests to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, are as follows: Internet: dead-flames-request@gdead.berkeley.edu Bitnet: dead-flames-request%gdead.berkeley.edu@ucbcmsa Uucp: ...!{ucbvax,uunet}!gdead.berkeley.edu!dead-flames-request You can send mail to the entire list (and rec.music.gdead) via one of these addresses: Internet: dead-flames@gdead.berkeley.edu Bitnet: dead-flames%gdead.berkeley.edu@ucbcmsa Uucp: ...!{ucbvax,uunet}!gdead.berkeley.edu!dead-flames End of Dead-Flames Digest ****************************** .