From: Digestifier To: Subject: Dead-Flames Digest #674 Dead-Flames Digest #674, Volume #48 Tue, 25 Oct 05 21:00:01 PDT Contents: Re: Why didn't yall tell me about 7-7-81???!!! (Steve Lenier) Re: A Conservative viewpoint.... (Seth Jackson) Ya'll gotta try this one... ("seraphim") Re: Hippie camo' dazes, confuses animals (joker4153@comcast.net) Re: Condi v Hillary 2008? (Seth Jackson) Re: cheney = traitor (Seth Jackson) Re: cheney = traitor (Seth Jackson) Re: Why didn't yall tell me about 7-7-81???!!! (Bob Anderson) Re: Notes from The 5 Fulton ("Rupert") Re: moe. mule-- a micro review (joker4153@comcast.net) Re: cheney = traitor ("Richard Morris") Re: cheney = traitor ("Richard Morris") Re: cheney = traitor (JimK) Re: White House Indictment vigil(NDC) ("Richard Morris") Re: what political Blogs do you read? (nDc) ("Neil X.") My 10-22-2005 Steve Kimock experience. (ba ba booie) Re: moe. mule-- a micro review ("Neil X.") Re: My 10-22-2005 Steve Kimock experience. (Sherry) Re: My 10-22-2005 Steve Kimock experience. ("Carlisle") ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:49:45 -0700 Subject: Re: Why didn't yall tell me about 7-7-81???!!! From: Steve Lenier in article 1130262288.171034.59350@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, RickNBarbInSD at rickdowling@cox.net wrote on 10/25/05 10:44 AM: > > al haig wrote: > Why didn't yall tell me about 7-7-81???!!! > > > > > We thought you were in control here, General!! > > > Rick > HA! nice one Rick :) back on topic, I love 7/7/89, and like 7/4/81, so it stands to reason I'll like 7/7/81, right? Steve ------------------------------ From: Seth Jackson Subject: Re: A Conservative viewpoint.... Reply-To: hitmeister .at. mindspring .dot. com Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 00:58:28 GMT On 25 Oct 2005 06:33:33 -0700, "Sparky the Wonder Dog" wrote: >Seth. No. I said that Robert's had a particular point of view so that a >person would not be getting a "straight-up" civil rights or libertarian >argument from him, depending on the context. That really was my point. >That was it. I still think your point would have been better made if you attacked specific arguments in his article rather than him personally. >Personally, me, myself, while I have been accused of spouting >"rightwing claptrap" by some people I am very concerned that the Bush >Administration has argued for expanded interpretations of Presidential >authority based on what seems to be a war on an abstraction. At bottom, >me, myself, I don't know what a "War on Terrorism" *is*. I don't even >know what a "war on terrorists" would be, in practice. Yes, I think >there are a lot of concerns about civil liberties. You might see a >thread I started on "what should the United States do with combatants >who don't belong to regular armies"--some of this was discussed before >the thread went down the rabbit-hole of the Israeli-Palestinian >dispute. > >I think police state is a little strong but innovations such as >judgeless warrants or secret courts set off warning bells for me, for >sure. We agree on that. ------------------------------ From: "seraphim" Subject: Ya'll gotta try this one... Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 01:12:07 GMT I bet you can't get past level 3: http://www.suonodiroma.com/labirinto.swf it is spanish you have to work the cusor throught the maze with out hitting the sides ------------------------------ From: joker4153@comcast.net Subject: Re: Hippie camo' dazes, confuses animals Date: 25 Oct 2005 18:13:26 -0700 Naw, he's only tripping out animals, and they don't carry firearms. That's why he hunts them. Where's the fun if an elk can return fire? Larry ------------------------------ From: Seth Jackson Subject: Re: Condi v Hillary 2008? Reply-To: hitmeister .at. mindspring .dot. com Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 01:14:51 GMT On 24 Oct 2005 07:25:56 -0700, "Sparky the Wonder Dog" wrote: >Kurt--why do you think she is so unelectable? Too left-wing for the >country? Too right-wing for Democrats? Too many people hate her. Not for any particulary good reason, they just hate her. ------------------------------ From: Seth Jackson Subject: Re: cheney = traitor Reply-To: hitmeister .at. mindspring .dot. com Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 01:24:16 GMT On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:23:18 -0400, JimK wrote: >What still puzzles me is what the purpose of the leak was. All the >news reports and commentaries seem to point to an attempt to discredit >Wilson after he went public on the administration's use of bad >intelligence to support the war. Not to discredit him, but to get revenge on him. ------------------------------ From: Seth Jackson Subject: Re: cheney = traitor Reply-To: hitmeister .at. mindspring .dot. com Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 01:27:04 GMT On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:12:16 -0400, "volkfolk" wrote: > >"leftie" wrote in message >news:djm5t8$1g2l$1@agate.berkeley.edu... >> Everybody's Gonna Be Happy wrote: >> >>> This leaking business is much ado about nothing, especially as you >>> describe it. ^^^^^^^ >> >> Cheney leaking? No. Conspiracy to obstruct justice? Seems quite likely. > >Inside the Beltway politics as usual IMO. > >Toad's right IMO, much ado about nothing Wow, I'm sorry you feel this way. You're essentially saying that politicians should be free to break the law with impunity. These guys committed treason to further their own political ambitions. That seems a whole lot worse than a blowjob, for which the President of the United States was impeached. ------------------------------ From: Bob Anderson Subject: Re: Why didn't yall tell me about 7-7-81???!!! Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:11:02 -0700 >Grateful Dead - July 7, 1981 >Municipal Auditorium - Kansas City, MO http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=13064 --- Bob Anderson*Bitwisebob Eugene Oregon ------------------------------ From: "Rupert" Subject: Re: Notes from The 5 Fulton Date: 25 Oct 2005 18:34:43 -0700 Yeah, it is a magical time in the city... Crazy women throwing their babies off of piers to "feed the sharks" because the voices told them. Goth kids killing high profile lawyer's wives because they got caught picking up their pot growing supplies that were purchased with other peoples's credit cards...okay, that's the burbs, but ya get the point. Speaking of getting the point: One of our sales reps was in today, telling us about her 26-year old son, and how he got attacked near the Civic Center on Saturday night after the bars closed. Apparently he turned to watch some guy trying to steal a car out of a city lot, when some other guy blindsided him and stabbed him in the heart with a fucking screwdriver! Word of advice: Don't hang out near Polk Street after the bars close. ------------------------------ From: joker4153@comcast.net Subject: Re: moe. mule-- a micro review Date: 25 Oct 2005 18:37:12 -0700 If his cousin was half as good at ultimate frisbee as Al is at music, your team kicked some ass! I'll take a minute to say the whole front line of moe. consists of excellent musicians: Chuck, Rob and Al are all outstanding--playing, singing, tunes-writing. As I said in an earlier post, I've been seeing moe. since 1997 and have never seen a moe. gig I didn't like...a lot. Larry ------------------------------ From: "Richard Morris" Subject: Re: cheney = traitor Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 19:07:59 -0700 "Everybody's Gonna Be Happy" wrote in message news:QOt7f.404$EP6.2042@eagle.america.net... snip > Cheney is off the hook unless someone is willing to testify to a > conspiracy to leak the name led by Cheney. > > I can't imagine that happening, even as prosecutors try to flip Libby or > whoever with threats of jail time. Those guys aren't gonna rat out Cheney > even if he was the instigator. And we have no evidence that he was. If he was the instigator, don't be too sure that his lackey won't sell him out. When faced with a little prison time, these are not necessarily stand-up guys. R. ------------------------------ From: "Richard Morris" Subject: Re: cheney = traitor Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 19:16:18 -0700 "volkfolk" wrote in message news:TpGdnR22FJozAsPeRVn-qQ@comcast.com... > > "leftie" wrote in message > news:djm5t8$1g2l$1@agate.berkeley.edu... >> Everybody's Gonna Be Happy wrote: >> >>> This leaking business is much ado about nothing, especially as you >>> describe it. ^^^^^^^ >> >> Cheney leaking? No. Conspiracy to obstruct justice? Seems quite likely. > > Inside the Beltway politics as usual IMO. > > Toad's right IMO, much ado about nothing No, this is not politics as usual. And, that is not what Toad said. What he said is that compared with the other stuff this regime is doing, this particular incident is small potatoes. R. ------------------------------ From: JimK Subject: Re: cheney = traitor Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 22:20:10 -0400 Reply-To: jkezwind@comcast.net On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 01:24:16 GMT, Seth Jackson wrote: >On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:23:18 -0400, JimK >wrote: > >>What still puzzles me is what the purpose of the leak was. All the >>news reports and commentaries seem to point to an attempt to discredit >>Wilson after he went public on the administration's use of bad >>intelligence to support the war. > >Not to discredit him, but to get revenge on him. That was my other choice. JimK ------------------------------ From: "Richard Morris" Subject: Re: White House Indictment vigil(NDC) Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 19:49:59 -0700 "Carlisle" wrote in message news:1130284491.456367.128900@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... snip > This is an honest question>>Does Cheney still have any connections to > Halliburton?? Difficult to believe that he's profiting directly from > the Iraqi war..That's what your last sentence sounds like though. > peace plus, > cpc > Do a web search. "Cheney ties to Halliburton". See what you get. He has stock options and defered salary, as I understand it. Does that count as a "connection" to you? It does to me. This stuff has been known for quite some time. I always thought that when you took office, you had to put your assets in a blind trust. How he gets away with this, I do not know. But it does make it easier to understand the no-bid contracts, doesn't it. Do you consider this to be ethical conduct, Carlisle? Is has the stench of corruption to me. R. ------------------------------ From: "Neil X." Subject: Re: what political Blogs do you read? (nDc) Date: 25 Oct 2005 20:15:33 -0700 > Ben wrote: > > If there are any somewhat objective ones, I'd be interested in hearing > about them. Ah, the fallacy of objectivity. Good luck with that. If you really want to know what's going on, read the least-shrill extremists on both ends of the spectrum. They are the most reliable source of what's most fucked up about the opposite side. Me, I don't read any blogs either. At this point, I have no desire to know what's really going on. Ostriches Are Underrated, Neil X. ------------------------------ From: ba_ba_b00ie@webtv.net (ba ba booie) Subject: My 10-22-2005 Steve Kimock experience. Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 23:16:10 -0400 My 10-22-2005 Steve Kimock experience. Short & sweet, I know ; ) Here we go, It started out a wet dreary Saturday. Nothing to do but lounge until I felt like getting up and going. I tried to get a couple of friends to go but no luck. So I just got up and went. I had nothing to do. My mobile was running good and I was ready to set sail. On the way there I went to pick up some batteries and some beer for the next day and I wanted to pick up some food for the ride and for the fridge at home for later. I got a case of Saranac (season sampler) I figured a change op pace from the Sammy Smiths Nut Brown Ale's. There are 6 different beers in this sampler to drink. They taste pretty good. It ain't no Nut Brown Ale, but really what is! So I got that and then went to the super market next door to get some food and batteries. I got 2 trays of sushi for the road and some sauted spinach for home. I then high tail it down (south) The New Jersey Turnpike to exit 4. Oh brother does that sound like a cliche' or what? What exit are you from? Man, that does not sound to good at all. Let me re-phrase that. I drove south on The New Jersey Turnpike to the Camden exit. Ya know something, that don't sound any better. How does the exit to get off at, in order to get to Phila sound? I could say I got off at the Cherry Hill exit. Ya know I think I am stuck saying exit 4. (what am I doing?) I'm sorry.... The whole ride down it's raining buckets. I It is non stop raining where you seriously have to slow down in order to drive. It kinda sucked!!! It's a good thing I fixed the wiper blades on my mobile the day before. It worked like a champ. I got the directions off the website and had them in the car. It's a good thing I fixed the dome light in my car. That worked like a pro. What good would directions do you, if you can't see them? The website sent me in a sort of a round about way, but I got there. It was pouring rain the whole ride there. I strolled over the Ben Franklin Bridge right into Center City Phila. It was all a matter of twists and turns and the next thing I know, I am there at the venue. Here I am in one of the greatest cities in the world seeing one of best guitarist around in this day and age, past and present. Kinda excieting!!! So I was looking for parking. It looked like tight stuff for parking around the area. I parked about 4 blocks away in a sketchy area. (what happen to one of the greatest cities in the world?) So I got my stuff and walked very fast to the venue. So as I was walking I saw spots closer to the venue. That sucked. So as I was walking past the venue I saw a spot in the back of the bar. I said fuck it. I walked (very fast) back to the car. Got in the car and b-lined it right to the venue. I drove right into the back lot of the venue. Boy was I glad. I looked at the place from the outside and it did not look to big. I was saying how is Steve gonna play in this place. A freakin bar??? I waited at the door with all the other schlubs. I waited and waited the line moved slowly until I found out that they were just hanging out at the bar and not waiting on line to get into the concert hall area. Great, then get out of my way! I finally make it up to the right area. I am then waiting some more in line. They are checking the will call list. I finally pay my dues. It cost $20.00! That is still a fair price to see a show. So I heard it through the grapevine that Steve didn't play the Trocadero this time around because the last time he did not bring in the crowd. There was some kind of argument the last time on how the house wanted Steve and the band to perform up stairs in the bar area. Which was quite a small area. The stage was small and the standing area was very small. To tell you the truth the last time that he played there I noticed the amount of crowd that was there and it probably would have fit that size crowd in that area. That would have sucked though! The stage was way to small. So I guess Steve said screw it, play in a different place. So I figured why not see him in a different environment also. So I finally get into the hall and the place is a 30 by 70 foot room. Low ceiling (about 10 ft). Open wood beams on the ceiling. No ventilation or fans in sight. It just finished raining so some people were still wet.You know what spells? The 3 H's. Oh man how I hate that!!! So I get in while Steve is fuckin around with his guitars. I get my stuff set up in a flash. No more than 15 minutes go by and the band takes that stage. Ooooo I am siked! Then this guy patches into the guy in front of me. He had this neat little gizmo called, "Creative Nomad" juke box 3. It looked like a CD player but it was not. I am not sure what it was but he said it had 40 Gigs of hard drive? He said you can record up to 3 to 4 hours of music on it. It has no moving parts. I asked him if I could analog it out into other units, and he said I could. Anyone know more about this gadget? It looks great. The only thing he said was bad was the battery power. I think he said you can directly record it in a wave file? I don't know what he was talking about. I gotta get with it. But I did ask him if I could drive microphones in it directly and he said I could. I gotta look into this. So the band is playing and they sound pretty good. That was a good mix with the keyboards. It filled Mitch's spot very well. So then the guy with the "Nomad juke box" asked me if I wanted a beer and I said sure. He asked what kind do you want, I said get me a BASS ale. So he went to the bar and came back with a Pennsylvania beer that began with a Y. It as not a Yeugling (spelling?), I think he said the name was Yard or Yardstick? I am not sure but the bar said it is the closest beer they had that tasted like a BASS. It was pretty good. All the time I was thinking if this guy might have slipped someting in my drink. That was going through my mind for a bit. I mean seriously, if somone offers you a beer that you never met before and he goes and gets the beer with out you seeing him, do you drink the beer? I mean, it is one of the chances that I rarely take. Why did I take the chance? The guy was set up right next to me. We were talking for a bit. I was studying his character. He seemed like a nice fellow. But you never know. Are people still sliping *Mickeys* in drinks these days. I hear of things happening like this. It just makes me concerned thats all. He then puffed me out. He seemed like a nice guy. I got his E-mail. So that made me feel a little better. So they tune up and rip into a song. Do I know what song? The music is hard for me to define. Me and a few other people that I know. I just can't grasp the name of the songs. So they sound great! They are in tune and rolling right along. Oh I am loving it. So as the set is going along I am standing next to the bands merchandising stand and I see Steve's new CD called, EUDEMONIC. I picked it up and looked at it and the songs on it were pretty good. I liked it and I bought it. I put in in my side pocket and went on my way. The band is starting to cook now. Oh the vibe is there. I am happy being around this music. I met a couple of cool people there. Some guy who lives in Costa Rica. He was in town for a bit and thought he would see the show. I gave him my E-mail. I met another girl who is from Alaska. She flew into Wisconsin and got married there and then flew to Maine. She hung out there for a day or two and then drove down from Maine to Phila to see the SKB show. Pretty cool to see the people coming from all over the globe to see the show. So the set is over (1 hour & 10 minutes) and the place is starting to get thick in the air. Uggghhhhh!!!!! This place is a dive. How could a place have no ventilation in it? Beats me??? So I just hang around during the break. I brought in a small tray of the sushi in with me into the bar. Two of the things I love most. Suchi & the SKB. And at the same time no less. If I could have sex at the show I would be in heaven ; ) Reminded my of the Seinfield where George Constanza was having sex and eating his pastrami or corned beef sandwich at the same time. Funny episode. Well the music is really sex for my ears. I talk to a few more people. There was about 4 other tapers that I saw there. I got to talking to one taper guy named Ed. He was a nice fellow. (by the way I am listening to the CD I bought at the show and it is GREAT! Steve Kimock did good on this one. It sounds very sweet. This is now my CD of choice for turning people onto the SKB experience) Do yourself a favor and get this CD! So the second set starts and the band is set. They are still sounding great. Rodney is in fine form. Then the place if full. It is "HOT" as hell n there! I could not take it. I needed some air. I was ready to pass out. I had to sit outside the door of the hall, I could still hear the band inside. I could also hear the juke box of the bar. The Clash (London Calling) was paying in one ear and the SKB was playing in the other. It was kinda weird but I did not care, the air was much better then inside the hall. I then got another beer. This time I got a Wyerbacker (3 hops) on tap. That was a good one. Thanks Theresa, I was tinkng about ya. The beer was cold and wet. I was still thinking of the case still sitting in my mobile waiting for me. I could have went outside and got one out of the case but I did not want to open the case. It does not look to good when you drive around with a case of beer in the back seat with a few beers missing. Cops frown on that. I figured I would be driving back all the way home with the case through all kinds of rural towns @ 2:00am. I just did not want to take the chance. So I am sitting there sipping my beer and I am people watching. I then see the food menu on the blackboard. Woooo Hoooo Foooooood...... (I was still hungry) I figured I would get an order of potato skins. It was $5.25, so I ordered it with spinach and bacon. I placed the order and waited. The band is still rolling in the next room, all within earshot and they sound great from where I am sitting. I CAN BREATHE!!! So my order of skins come out and it looks great! The guy cut 3 fat potatoes and stuffed them with spinach and bacon. That had to be the best potatoes skins I ever had! No question about it. I could only eat 4 out of the 6 skins I got. They were very filling. So as I am eating my skins I am noticing people leaving the show. I guess they could only take so much of the heat. I guess I wasn't the only one. In fact during the show Steve made a comment about it. So I couldn't finish all of the skins and I had to pack the other 2 in the tray that I finished the sushi in. I wrapped it up and put it in my pocket. I then went back in the hall. There were less people, but it was still thick air!!! I was starting feeling wheesy. I thought oh no, the mickey was kicking in. It was feeling very light headed. I thought great what did I consume that I did not know about. Then it hit me, I was breathing in and out the same air. That air sucked! I think I was starting to pass out (hyperventalating?). I can take heat but this was unbearable! Then the second set was over (1 hour & 10 mnutes) Both sets were kinda short. What's up with that? I guess it was hot for the band also. I then packed up my stuff and said my good byes to the guys next to me. I saw Rodney and said that was a fun show. I told him that I will be seeing him this weekind up north. He said that was cool, I'll see ya up there. I walked out with the guy that bought me the beer and I said to him do ya wanna puff a little. I had a doobie in the car. We hung out in the back lot and enjoyed. We got to talking and it turns out that his parents live a couple of blocks from where I live now. He knew all the streets in my area. I was amazed. That was very weird. So we enjoyed a little more and then we said our good-bye's. I then got in my mobile and headed home. I had a long trip. I forgot what time it was when I left. So here I was leaving one of the greatest cities in the world. I followed the directions the same way I came in. The Ben Franklin Bridge never looked so good. Must have been the doobie. So I leave Phila and head nto New Jersey. I then set sail north. All the time I am tkinking about the case in the back seat, just waiting to be sipped. So I get on the New Jersey Turnpike @ exit 4 (oh brother) and set sail north to exit 8 (it does sound bad doesn't it!) ; ) I get of the exit and go a little out of my way to go around certain areas that I don't wanna go through @ 3:00am. So I finally get home and just veg out. What a long strange it was. Then my cell phone rings and it is my new neighbor. The other guy got kickd out. He refused to pay the rent. So out he went. The new neighnor had a girl over and he wanted to know if I wanted to puff. I said sure : ) I went over and hung out till 4:40am. We enjoyed 2 doobies and then parted ways. It felt good to be home and see my babies. They looked so good. Nothing majored happen. Just something to do on a rainy Saturday. Ya see how much fun I had, and I went alone. I would have liked to have brought someone with me but that would not stop me from going. This weekend should be interesting. I hope my mobile makes it up there with no problems. I hear there is snow up there in them hills. Any truth to this? Do I gotta pack my mittens? I need to get new tires before my trip. That was my 10-22-2005 Steve Kimock experience. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A couple of booie experiences worth mentioning: I love beer! I love potato skins! I love my sushi! I love my doobies! I love EUDEMONIC!!! I love my birds. I like this configuration of the SKB. They are a well blended group of musicans. Steve did a song by Traffic in the second set? What song was that? My recording came out great! The booie mobile made it there and back. 353,000 and still rolling. I gotta find out more about this Nomad Jukebox 3 A whole weekend of Kimock shows coming up, I think I am excited. : ) That is all for now. Talk to ya soon. booie.......... .. .. Have you checked these sites out today? http://www.jambase.com http://www.jambands.com http://www.jambase.com/festivals .. Find out where your favorite band is playing. Pollstar (The concert hotwire) http://www.pollstar.com ------------------------------ From: "Neil X." Subject: Re: moe. mule-- a micro review Date: 25 Oct 2005 20:37:21 -0700 > joker4153@comcast.net wrote: > > I've been seeing moe. since 1997 and have > never seen a moe. gig I didn't like...a lot. Amazing. I've never seen a .moe show that wasn't, IMO, numbingly bad. When it comes to jambands, I'm pretty much a bottom feeder, I can find something of value in most of them. But Rusted Root and .moe, I just don't get it. Different Strokes, Neil X. ------------------------------ Subject: Re: My 10-22-2005 Steve Kimock experience. From: Sherry Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 03:48:08 GMT > I hear there is snow up there in them hills. Any truth to this? > Do I gotta pack my mittens? > I need to get new tires before my trip. Dunno how far north you're coming, but we've got about 3" at the moment, with "7-12 inches" promised by morning. It's very heavy wet snow, slippery as hell, and since the trees weren't yet free of all their leaves, many trees are leaning heavily and falling into the road. Beautiful, though. :) Winter's HERE! I wore my mittens today for the first time this season, and was very glad to have them. My hat, too. 32F is a tad nippy without mittens and a good warm hat. I'm going to get my snow tires put on tomorrow, myself. Shoulda' done it today, but I was too busy. Tristan totalled his car last week, and so I'm back to driving my boys around. Thea also started skating lessons tonight, much to her joy. Seemed quite appropriate for the first snow to being the day skating lessons start. :) I love winter. :) My favorite season. It can't snow too much for me. Sherry in Vermont ------------------------------ From: "Carlisle" Subject: Re: My 10-22-2005 Steve Kimock experience. Date: 25 Oct 2005 20:54:49 -0700 > > That was my > 10-22-2005 Steve Kimock experience. > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > A couple of booie experiences worth mentioning: > > I love beer! > > I love potato skins! > > I love my sushi! > > I love my doobies! > > I love EUDEMONIC!!! > > I love my birds. > > I like this configuration of the SKB. > They are a well blended group of musicans. > > Steve did a song by Traffic in the second set? What song was that? > > My recording came out great! > > The booie mobile made it there and back. > 353,000 and still rolling. > > I gotta find out more about this > Nomad Jukebox 3 > A whole > weekend of Kimock shows coming up, I think I am excited. : ) > > > That is all for now. > Talk to ya soon. > > > booie.......... > > . 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