From: Digestifier To: Subject: Dead-Flames Digest #663 Dead-Flames Digest #663, Volume #48 Mon, 24 Oct 05 20:00:01 PDT Contents: Re: 43 today happy birthday to me!! ("Richard Morris") Re: Ocktoberfest jam!!!!! ("Richard Morris") Re: (NDC) Album/Box Set Review - Miles Davis - The Cellar Door Sessions 1970 (pbuzby2002@yahoo.com) Re: what should the United States do with combatants who don't belong to regular armies? ("Ray") Re: (NDC) Album/Box Set Review - Miles Davis - The Cellar Door Sessions 1970 ("Bill") Re: 43 today happy birthday to me!! (The Lord of Eltingville) Re: what should the United States do with combatants who don't belong to regular armies? ("Ray") RIP ROSA PARKS............. ("AirtimeJunkie") Rosa Parks, RIP (Artie Gold) Rosa Parks, Thank You and Rest In Peace (Paul) Re: (NDC) Album/Box Set Review - Miles Davis - The Cellar Door Sessions 1970 ("al haig") Re: 43 today happy birthday to me!! (band beyond description) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Richard Morris" Subject: Re: 43 today happy birthday to me!! Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 19:06:16 -0700 "seraphim" wrote in message news:oLf7f.10731$cg.4724@news02.roc.ny... > Well now I am 43...got a lil Godziila toy from my 7yr old...you can never > be too old for Godzilla! and the new Robert Jordan book "Knife of > Dreams"...and some lovin from wifey ....life is good...oh yeah happy b-day > to me!! Happy birthday, youngun! Richard ------------------------------ From: "Richard Morris" Subject: Re: Ocktoberfest jam!!!!! Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 19:09:58 -0700 "Steve Terry" wrote in message news:djk0k2$1kop$1@news.iquest.net... > > "Steve Lenier" wrote in message: > >> The cane is saved for special tirades. > > I was just making a funny. No caning, please. IAAHSWYPII? R. ------------------------------ From: pbuzby2002@yahoo.com Subject: Re: (NDC) Album/Box Set Review - Miles Davis - The Cellar Door Sessions 1970 Date: 24 Oct 2005 19:13:12 -0700 Bill wrote: > He (Jarrett) plays some very interesting lines in the midst of the storm of > the sound of Miles band then. If one person deserves an MVP award in that > band for the music I heard last night, I'd give it to him. Miles played the same setlist practically every night when Jarrett was in the group. Jarrett's ability to reinvent the tunes every time was amazing. Aside from these six CDs, they did a month tour in Europe in fall '71 and almost every show was an FM broadcast. Great stuff. Pat Buzby Chicago, IL ------------------------------ From: "Ray" Subject: Re: what should the United States do with combatants who don't belong to regular armies? Date: 24 Oct 2005 19:19:09 -0700 Sparky the Wonder Dog wrote: Sparky, your massive essay contains many errors and misrepresentations. For example, the two paragraphs re- on the 2003 poll that demonstrates that a majority of Israelis would relinquish settlements are not, as you put it, 'contradictory' - surely you are intelligent enough to figure out why. Also, and most importantly: The United States does indeed bankroll expansion of the West Bank settlements - it is not 'cartoonish' to call a space a spade here. Because as we both know, without the billions in monetary 'aid' that the US gives to Israel every year Israel could not afford to maintain -- let alone expand -- the settlements. And this basic fact is true regardless of what the US 'aid' money is earmarked for -- the fact that money is fungible entirely irrelevant here. This is a basic fact is one that the Muslim world is well aware of, even if many in the US are not. And this basic fact -- that the United States bankrolls the expansion, and FTM even the very existence, of the West Bank settlements -- undermines the security interests of the United States. Before I continue, however, please answer this question that I asked of you in my previous post, so that I and everyone can know where you are coming from (figuratively, and perhaps literally as well): Do you put the security interests of the United States before that of any other nation, Sparky? Ray _______________________ "[T]he immediate adoption of a settlement freeze by Israel, more than any other action, could create the confidence needed for wider participation in these [peace] talks. Further settlement activity is in no way necessary for the security of Israel and only diminishes the confidence of the Arabs that a final outcome can be freely and fairly negotiated." - President Ronald Reagan (Sept 1, 1982) However this still does not explain your assertion that Krugman "no, not by proxy - but he actually accused America of being involved in the plotting of the [9-11] attack." > >Are you saying that despite the wording > >in your post above, you don't want Krugman to "die soon of some rare, > >Jewish disease"? Why haven't you yet answered this simple question > >but instead continue to evade it? > ...I won't play your paranoid fantasy games - I responded to this once > already- this is not what I said _____________________________ "The United States will not support the use of any additional land for the purpose of settlements during the transition period. Indeed, the immediate adoption of a settlement freeze by Israel, more than any other action, could create the confidence needed for wider participation in these talks. Further settlement activity is in no way necessary for the security of Israel and only diminishes the confidence of the Arabs that a final outcome can be freely and fairly negotiated." - President Ronald Reagan (Sept 1, 1982) "When we negotiated with Israel, we negotiated on the basis of land for peace, on the basis of total withdrawal from territory in exchange for peaceful relations. . . . This is exactly our position, and we wish it to be applied also in the negotiations between Israelis and Syrians, Israelis and Palestinians. We have not changed our position at all." - Bush Sr. Secretary of State James Baker (Nov 1, 1991) "An underlying reason that years of U.S. diplomacy have failed and violence in the Middle East persists is that some Israeli leaders continue to "create facts" by building settlements in occupied territory... "The major issues still to be resolved remain unchanged: the final boundaries of the state of Israel, the return of, or compensation for, Palestinians dislodged from their previous homes and the status of Jerusalem... It is unlikely that real progress can be made on any of these issues as long as Israel insists on its settlement policy, illegal under international laws that are supported by the United States and all other nations. "There are many questions as we continue to seek an end to violence in the Middle East, but there is no way to escape the vital one: Land or peace?" - Jimmy Carter (Nov 26, 2000) --- http://www.cartercenter.org/viewdoc.asp?docID=137&submenu=news ------------------------------ From: "Bill" Subject: Re: (NDC) Album/Box Set Review - Miles Davis - The Cellar Door Sessions 1970 Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 02:21:16 GMT Pat Buzby wrote > > JC Martin wrote: > > Understand that Bill believes rock > > musicians have the same level of chops as jazz musicians. When a guy > > believes a Jimmy Page or Jerry Garcia has more chops than Bill Frisell That's an easy one. If Bill Frisell had one tenth the musical imagination *and* one tenth the chops that Garcia had, he'd be about ten times better. You hate Garcia - so what. Truth is you don't know shit about Garcia, Page, Kreutzmann or the Grateful Dead. You never even saw the Dead or Garcia. You probably don't know shit about Frisell either. Anyone who thinks Warren Haynes is the best guitarist out there right now as you do is just plain musically clueless. Anyone who thinks Kruetzmann's drumming from '72 to '74 sucked like you do is just plain clueless. > > or that Billy K. has more chops than Tony Williams, there's no use > > explaining. Kreutzmann's drum work from '72 to '74 (as well as other years) was brilliant. So you don't like his playing or don't like Garcia's playing or don't like the Dead, who cares. If you had ever gone to see them or ever gotten any of their shows on CD, you might have a clue to what people see in Garcia's playing and Kreutzmann's drumming. But being clueless, you don't. As Mr T says: "I pity the fool!" > To be fair to Bill, I don't think that saying that Holland's 1970 > playing with Miles is a bit like Lesh's 1974 playing is equal to saying > that Lesh has more chops than Holland. Simple concepts give jc the fits. And he has a bad habit of putting his foot in his mouth. Bill > Also, the fact that Miles made > Holland play funk/rock levelled the playing field a bit. > > > Pat Buzby > Chicago, IL > ------------------------------ From: The Lord of Eltingville Subject: Re: 43 today happy birthday to me!! Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 22:02:56 -0400 seraphim wrote: > > Well now I am 43...got a lil Godziila toy from my 7yr old...you can never be > too old for Godzilla! and the new Robert Jordan book "Knife of Dreams"...and > some lovin from wifey ....life is good...oh yeah happy b-day to me!! Happy bidet! My nieces gave me a set of South Park wind-up toys for xmass a couple years ago. I still like letting them loose on the kitchen floor and watching my cat freak out. ------------------------------ From: "Ray" Subject: Re: what should the United States do with combatants who don't belong to regular armies? Date: 24 Oct 2005 19:30:01 -0700 Apologies for the poor editing job at the bottom of my previous post. I cut it from a previous post of mine, and neglected to fully excise the irrelevant material - I meant only to include the Israeli settlement quotes from Reagan, James Baker, and Carter. FWIW, here's the article that those quotes came from: ==================================== For Israel, Land or Peace By Jimmy Carter 26 Nov 2000 An underlying reason that years of U.S. diplomacy have failed and violence in the Middle East persists is that some Israeli leaders continue to "create facts" by building settlements in occupied territory. Their deliberate placement as islands or fortresses within Palestinian areas makes the settlers vulnerable to attack without massive military protection, frustrates Israelis who seek peace and at the same time prevents any Palestinian government from enjoying effective territorial integrity. At Camp David in September 1978, President Anwar Sadat, Prime Minister Menachem Begin and I spent most of our time debating this issue before we finally agreed on terms for peace between Egypt and Israel and for the resolution of issues concerning the Palestinian people. The bilateral provisions led to a comprehensive and lasting treaty between Egypt and Israel, made possible at the last minute by Israel's agreement to remove its settlers from the Sinai. But similar constraints concerning the status of the West Bank and Gaza have not been honored, and have led to continuing confrontation and violence. The foundation for all my proposals to the two leaders was the official position of the government of the United States, based on international law that was mutually accepted by the United States, Egypt, Israel and other nations, and encapsulated in United Nations Security Council Resolution 242. Our government's legal commitment to support this well-balanced resolution has not changed. Although the acceptance of Resolution 242 was a contentious issue at Camp David, Prime Minister Begin ultimately acknowledged its applicability, "in all its parts." The text emphasizes "the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war and the need to work for a just and lasting peace in which every State in the area can live in security." It requires the "withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent [1967] conflict" and the right of every state in the area "to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force." It was clear that Israeli settlements in the occupied territories were a direct violation of this agreement and were, according to the long-stated American position, both "illegal and an obstacle to peace." Accordingly, Prime Minister Begin pledged that there would be no establishment of new settlements until after the final peace negotiations were completed. But later, under Likud pressure, he declined to honor this commitment, explaining that his presumption had been that all peace talks would be concluded within three months. There were some notable provisions in the Camp David Accords that related to Palestinian autonomy and the occupation of land. A key element was that "the Israeli military government and its civilian administration will be withdrawn as soon as a self-governing authority has been freely elected by the inhabitants of these areas to replace the existing military government." This transition period was triggered by an election in the occupied territories in January 1996, approved by the Palestinians and the government of Israel and monitored by the Carter Center. Eighty-eight Palestinian Council members were elected, with Yasser Arafat as president, and this self-governing authority, with limited autonomy, convened for the first time in March 1996. It was also agreed that once the powers and responsibilities of the self-governing authority were established, "A withdrawal of Israeli armed forces will take place and there will be a redeployment of the remaining Israeli forces into specified security locations." We decided early during the Camp David talks that it would be impossible to resolve the question of sovereignty over East Jerusalem, but proposed the following paragraph concerning the city, on which we reached full agreement: "Jerusalem, the city of peace, is holy to Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, and all peoples must have free access to it and enjoy the free exercise of worship and the right to visit and transit to the holy places without distinction or discrimination. The holy places of each faith will be under the administration and control of their representatives. A municipal council representative of the inhabitants of the city shall supervise essential functions in the city such as public utilities, public transportation, and tourism and shall ensure that each community can maintain its own cultural and educational institutions." At the last minute, however, after several days of unanimous acceptance, both Sadat and Begin agreed that there were already enough controversial elements in the accords and requested that this paragraph, although still supported by both sides, be deleted from the final text. Instead, the two leaders exchanged letters, expressing the legal positions of their respective governments regarding the status of East Jerusalem. They disagreed about sovereignty, of course, but affirmed that the city should be undivided. As agreed, I informed them that "the position of the United States on Jerusalem remains as stated by Ambassador Arthur Goldberg in the United Nations General Assembly on July 14, 1967, and subsequently by Ambassador Charles Yost in the United Nations Security Council on July 1, 1969." In effect, these statements considered East Jerusalem to be part of the occupied territories, along with the West Bank and Gaza. The Camp David Accord was signed by all three of us leaders with great fanfare and enthusiasm. President Sadat and Prime Minister Begin embraced warmly at the White House ceremony, and the final document was overwhelmingly ratified by their respective parliaments. With the inauguration of President Ronald Reagan, there was a period of relative inactivity in the Middle East, except for the Israeli invasion of Lebanon and the subsequent expulsion of PLO forces from Beirut. President Reagan used the announcement of this event on Sept. 1, 1982, to address the nation on the subject of the West Bank and the Palestinians. He stated clearly that "the Camp David agreement remains the foundation of our policy," and his speech included the following declarations: "The Palestinian inhabitants of the West Bank and Gaza will have full autonomy over their own affairs." "The United States will not support the use of any additional land for the purpose of settlements during the transition period. Indeed, the immediate adoption of a settlement freeze by Israel, more than any other action, could create the confidence needed for wider participation in these talks. Further settlement activity is in no way necessary for the security of Israel and only diminishes the confidence of the Arabs that a final outcome can be freely and fairly negotiated." In 1991 there was a major confrontation between the governments of Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir and President George Bush concerning Israeli settlements in the West Bank, with U.S. threats of withholding financial aid if settlement activity continued. A conference was convened that year in Madrid with participants of the United States, Syria, other Arab nations and some Palestinians who did not officially represent the PLO. At a press conference on Nov. 1, Secretary of State James Baker said, "When we negotiated with Israel, we negotiated on the basis of land for peace, on the basis of total withdrawal from territory in exchange for peaceful relations. . . . This is exactly our position, and we wish it to be applied also in the negotiations between Israelis and Syrians, Israelis and Palestinians. We have not changed our position at all." Norwegian mediators forged an agreement in September 1993 between Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin and Arafat committing both sides to a staged peace process. Although U.S. officials were not involved in this effort, our government commemorated the Oslo Accords in a ceremony at the White House, and built subsequent peace talks on its terms and those of the Camp David Accords. So far, these efforts have not succeeded, and this year there has been a resurgence of violence and animosity between Israelis and Arabs unequaled in more than a quarter of a century. The major issues still to be resolved remain unchanged: the final boundaries of the state of Israel, the return of, or compensation for, Palestinians dislodged from their previous homes and the status of Jerusalem. It seems almost inevitable that the United States will initiate new peace efforts, but it is unlikely that real progress can be made on any of these issues as long as Israel insists on its settlement policy, illegal under international laws that are supported by the United States and all other nations. There are many questions as we continue to seek an end to violence in the Middle East, but there is no way to escape the vital one: Land or peace? --- http://www.cartercenter.org/viewdoc.asp?docID=137&submenu=news ------------------------------ From: "AirtimeJunkie" Subject: RIP ROSA PARKS............. Date: 24 Oct 2005 19:32:02 -0700 RIP ROSA PARKS ------------------------------ From: Artie Gold Subject: Rosa Parks, RIP Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 21:33:24 -0500 Sometimes the good die young. Sometimes they live a long time. --ag ------------------------------ From: Paul Subject: Rosa Parks, Thank You and Rest In Peace Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 21:34:39 -0500 Reply-To: ppouliotnospam@mchsi.corn ------------------------------ From: "al haig" Subject: Re: (NDC) Album/Box Set Review - Miles Davis - The Cellar Door Sessions 1970 Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 02:39:20 GMT wrote > > JC Martin wrote: > > John Metzger wrote: > > > > > No, but Pat makes the logical point. Holland is probably one of the top > > 5 jazz bassists in the musical form's history. Henderson isn't much a > > jazz player at all. And comparing Holland to Lesh is just plain dumb. > > Yeah, that I agree with. So you agree with a distortion of what was actually said? jc's reading comprehension abilities are pretty nonexistent - don't lower yourself to those levels. Bill ------------------------------ From: band beyond description <123@456.com> Subject: Re: 43 today happy birthday to me!! Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:46:38 +0900 On 2005-10-25 10:20:20 +0900, "seraphim" said: > Well now I am 43...got a lil Godziila toy from my 7yr old...you can > never be too old for Godzilla! and the new Robert Jordan book "Knife of > Dreams"...and some lovin from wifey ....life is good...oh yeah happy > b-day to me!! Happy Birthday. Why, you're a relative spring chicken! I just turned 44 in August. -- Peace, Steve ------------------------------ ** FOR YOUR REFERENCE ** The service addresses, to which questions about the list itself and requests to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, are as follows: Internet: dead-flames-request@gdead.berkeley.edu Bitnet: dead-flames-request%gdead.berkeley.edu@ucbcmsa Uucp: ...!{ucbvax,uunet}!gdead.berkeley.edu!dead-flames-request You can send mail to the entire list (and rec.music.gdead) via one of these addresses: Internet: dead-flames@gdead.berkeley.edu Bitnet: dead-flames%gdead.berkeley.edu@ucbcmsa Uucp: ...!{ucbvax,uunet}!gdead.berkeley.edu!dead-flames End of Dead-Flames Digest ****************************** .