From: Digestifier To: Subject: Dead-Flames Digest #659 Dead-Flames Digest #659, Volume #48 Mon, 24 Oct 05 12:00:02 PDT Contents: Re: I'm So Glad ("frndthdevl") Re: Ocktoberfest jam!!!!! ("Rogues Island's finest") Re: what should the United States do with combatants who don't belong to regular armies? ("Sparky the Wonder Dog") Re: The best stoner movie (NDC) ("RickNBarbInSD") Re: White House Indictment vigil(NDC) (JC Martin) Re: If payment is accepted for pre-orders isn't that an interest free loan? ("Sparky the Wonder Dog") Re: I'm So Glad ("Rogues Island's finest") Re: Halloween Music ("imsjry") Re: It's not dead. It's pining for the fjord. ("RickNBarbInSD") Re: If payment is accepted for pre-orders isn't that an interest free loan? (SillyThingsHappen@hotmail.com) Re: Review - Susan Tedeschi @ Irving Plaza (Brad Greer) Re: If payment is accepted for pre-orders isn't that an interest free loan? (Brad Greer) Re: drug tests for jobs (NDC) ("Effty") Re: If payment is accepted for pre-orders isn't that an interest free loan? ("Sparky the Wonder Dog") Re: If payment is accepted for pre-orders isn't that an interest free loan? ("neurodancer") Re: If payment is accepted for pre-orders isn't that an interest free loan? ("Sparky the Wonder Dog") Re: drug tests for jobs (NDC) (Brad Greer) Re: If payment is accepted for pre-orders isn't that an interest free loan? (Kirk McElhearn) Kimock on TV! ("Rogues Island's finest") Re: Halloween Music (The Lord of Eltingville) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "frndthdevl" Subject: Re: I'm So Glad Date: 24 Oct 2005 10:40:20 -0700 Rogues Island's finest wrote: > frndthdevl wrote: > > And I'm so glad we made it > > Gimme Some Lovin>Cream. > > Yeah, makes sense. > > Mark Golden silence, glad to share the well hunter Jim k freed it from a Cream thread you democrap wannabe ------------------------------ From: "Rogues Island's finest" Subject: Re: Ocktoberfest jam!!!!! Date: 24 Oct 2005 10:41:39 -0700 leftie wrote: > Rogues Island's finest wrote: > > > Did Neil end up naked and passed out in the living room again? > > You mean that isn't just a San Francisco Treat? Neil is part of the "Drunks Without Borders" organization. Mark ------------------------------ From: "Sparky the Wonder Dog" Subject: Re: what should the United States do with combatants who don't belong to regular armies? Date: 24 Oct 2005 10:45:57 -0700 grtflmark: If we are talking about Gitmo as it is currently managed, things are better. Previous abuses have been addressed. For all I know the Army has already done all the questioning it intends to do with the great bulk of the settled inmate population. There is (now) a functioning review process of internal military panels (previously held up pending court review), and the Supreme Court *rejected Administration arguments* and put in another safeguard: access to civil courts for habeas corpus (not directly related to POW status but a protection to detainees). But these are just habeaus corpus appeals. I would be very surprised if the detainees, even now, enjoy the full benefits of citizens brought before domestic courts--and I don't know specifically how their access to counsel stacks up next to American soldiers in military proceedings. Europe I don't know about. Some times they are very lenient on potential terrorists and sometimes they go extra-judicial and just whomp on people. ======= Q&A: US Supreme Court Guantanamo ruling Prisoners can now go to court The United States Supreme Court has ruled that prisoners held at Guantanamo Bay can take their case that they are unlawfully imprisoned to the American courts. BBC News Online looks at the issues involved. What did the Supreme Court say? The overall ruling of the court was: "United States courts have jurisdiction to consider challenges to the legality of the detention of foreign nationals captured abroad in connection with hostilities and incarcerated at Guantanamo Bay." The court then described how this should happen. It accepted the argument from lawyers from the Center for Constitutional Rights that the Federal District Court in Washington DC (to which the case was first brought) does have jurisdiction to hear the prisoners' petition, under the "habeas corpus" law, that they are held "in custody in violation of the Constitution or laws or treaties of the United States." What is habeas corpus? Habeas corpus is a Latin phrase meaning: "You have the body." It is the name given to an ancient legal device under English common law (a mixture of judge-made laws, precedents and statutes). Habeas corpus was continued in American law after independence. If a writ of habeas corpus is issued by a court, the person holding a prisoner (the "body") must bring the prisoner to the court and justify the detention. It has been a basic instrument under which courts in common law systems have protected citizens against wrongful imprisonment. Why did the Supreme Court rule in the prisoners' favour? The court was divided 6-3. The majority opinion was written by Justice John Paul Stevens and hinged on the definition of "sovereignty." He argued that, even though Cuba retained "ultimate sovereignty", the United States exercised, in the words of the lease from Cuba, "complete jurisdiction and control" at Guantanamo Bay. Therefore federal jurisdiction applied there and "aliens, no less than American citizens, are entitled to invoke the Federal courts' authority." The court rejected an argument that a case arising out of World War II should be followed in this instance (see below), saying that the two were quite different. Justice Stevens quoted a predecessor on habeas corpus: "Executive imprisonment has been considered oppressive and lawless since [King] John, at Runnymede, pledged that no free man should be imprisoned, dispossessed, outlawed, or exiled save by the judgment of his peers or by the law of the land." The majority was formed by the liberals on the court, joined by the "swing" justices. One of the latter, Justice Sandra Day O'Connor, said that the US government could not have a "blank check" even in time of war. ------------------------------ From: "RickNBarbInSD" Subject: Re: The best stoner movie (NDC) Date: 24 Oct 2005 10:48:36 -0700 band beyond description wrote: > what do you like to watch when you're "in the zone?" > > -- > Peace, > Steve Un Chien Andalou Living in Oblivion 2001 Woodstock Eraserhead 12 Monkeys Alice in Wonderland The Wizard of Oz The Grateful Dead Movie Altered States Lord of the Rings Trilogy Monty Python & the Holy Grail Yellow Submarine Tommy Rick ------------------------------ From: JC Martin Subject: Re: White House Indictment vigil(NDC) Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 17:50:57 GMT Carlisle wrote: > JC Martin wrote: > >>Carlisle wrote: >> >>>JC Martin wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Carlisle wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> ;) >>>>>Rush is an entertainer...he gets is stuff from others, namely the WSJ, >>>>>National Review, Cato, Heritage Foundation, AEI and the White House. >>>>>Write that down. The man is given too much credit, really. Ditto THAT! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>He deserves credit for helping spin forth Republican talking points. >>>>You're truly naive if you don't understand that he's been a major player >>>>in the Republican revolution. >>>> >>>>-JC >>> >>> >>>RL DID help get people really pissed at Congress and the Clintons prior >>>to the Republican House cleaning...But that was so ten years ago, JC. >>>The "revolution" was a flop. >> >> >> >>LOL. Like I said, you're a bit naive on this one. >> >>-JC > > > JC, Are you wearing anything other than a jockstrap right about now?? Ummmm...I won't be able to comment on that until the investigation is finished. -JC ------------------------------ From: "Sparky the Wonder Dog" Subject: Re: If payment is accepted for pre-orders isn't that an interest free loan? Date: 24 Oct 2005 10:54:34 -0700 DG: I responded to your question "Then why do it?". The big deal (or medium or small) is whether it is ethical or unethical or just smart for a business to shift its sales into pre-orders and take the money up-front. On a mark-by-mark basis, its a small grift and, sure, agreed to. ------------------------------ From: "Rogues Island's finest" Subject: Re: I'm So Glad Date: 24 Oct 2005 11:00:03 -0700 frndthdevl wrote: > Rogues Island's finest wrote: > > frndthdevl wrote: > > > And I'm so glad we made it > > > > Gimme Some Lovin>Cream. > > > > Yeah, makes sense. > > > > Mark > > Golden silence, glad to share the well > hunter > > > > Jim k freed it from a Cream thread you democrap wannabe Gimme Some Lovin>Cream>Clean up on aisle five>cigarette? ------------------------------ From: "imsjry" Subject: Re: Halloween Music Date: 24 Oct 2005 11:02:00 -0700 Phish-Wolfman's Brother/Story of the Ghost BOC-Don't fear the Reaper Sonic Youth-Halloween Metallica-The Thing that Should not Be AC/DC-Hells Bells Ministry-Every Day is Halloween Bauhaus-Entire Catalog! Especially Bela Lagosi's Dead David Bowie-Scary Monsters and Super Creeps Slayer-Reign in Blood Dead-Dark Star(10-31-91) ------------------------------ From: "RickNBarbInSD" Subject: Re: It's not dead. It's pining for the fjord. Date: 24 Oct 2005 11:04:38 -0700 The Lord of Eltingville wrote: > Dead British parrot had deadly H5N1 bird flu > By Mike Peacock Sun Oct 23, 3:32 PM ET > > LONDON (Reuters) - A parrot that died in quarantine in Britain has been > found to have the deadly H5N1 strain of bird flu, the agriculture > ministry said on Sunday, and the spread of the virus meant the country > was now at greater risk. > > A spokeswoman for Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs > confirmed that scientists had found "the highly pathogenic H5N1 virus" > in the parrot. > > "The closest match is to a strain found in ducks in China earlier this > year," the ministry spokesman said. > > The parrot, imported from Suriname, South America, was part of a mixed > consignment of 148 birds that arrived on September 16, the ministry > said. They were held with another consignment of 216 birds from Taiwan. > > All the birds were culled while in quarantine. > > Debbie Reynolds, Britain's chief veterinary official, told reporters > during a teleconference that the parrot likely caught the virus while in > the quarantine center where it was kept with the Taiwanese birds. > > Her staff reviewed the global threat and determined "there is a high > risk of further global dispersion of this virus." > > As a result, Britain and others must increase their vigilance. > > "There is a risk to the United Kingdom and this risk has increased," she > said. > > She said however that the finding did not affect Britain's "avian > influenza disease-free status." > > Reynolds said the parrot's tissue samples were mixed by mistake with > another bird's so there may be two infected birds in the quarantine > center but that is not clear. > > The H5N1 strain has killed more than 60 people in four Asian countries > since breaking out in late 2003 in > South Korea. > > It has also reached European Russia, Turkey and Romania, tracking the > paths of migratory birds. > > H5N1 has triggered widespread concern because it can transfer to humans > in some cases, although only if they have had prolonged and close > contact with infected birds, and some experts fear it could mutate to > transfer between humans. He's not pinin'! He's passed on! This parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! He's expired and gone to meet his maker! He's a stiff! Bereft of life, He rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed him to the perch he'd be pushing up the daisies! His metabolic processes are now history! He's off the twig! He's kicked the bucket, He's shuffled off his mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-PARROT!! Rick ------------------------------ From: SillyThingsHappen@hotmail.com Subject: Re: If payment is accepted for pre-orders isn't that an interest free loan? Date: 24 Oct 2005 11:06:35 -0700 Our country exists on this kind of float. You gotta be careful though not to kite checks like this. Other people's money. Ho hum. I am pissed they ran out of the 10 CD boxset. BTW, when will that 40th anniversary '72 Europe boxset come out ? ------------------------------ From: Brad Greer Subject: Re: Review - Susan Tedeschi @ Irving Plaza Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 14:11:30 -0400 On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 13:15:30 -0400, "Schmoe" wrote: >Brad Greer wrote: >> On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 16:22:36 -0400, "Schmoe" >> wrote: >> >>> the 1st 1/2 of the set and then left to play a late night set at The >>> Cutting Room a few blocks away (which we caught after Susan's show). >>> Around the >> >> What did you think of the Cutting Room as a venue? I'm going to see >> the Rads there in a couple of weeks and know nothing about the venue. > >It's a bar up front where you walk in and a small backroom (through a closed >door/cover charge) where the stage is. It's very private club feeling. I >ordered a bottle water and rec'd something that looked something between art >and fru-fru. It had water in it but I'm glad it was my friend's round >preventing me from knowing the exact absurd cost. There are a few columns on >the floor so make sure you get there early to get a seat in front of the >stage. We were partially blocked. Bring lott$a dollar$ 'cau$e the drink$ >ain't cheap. Have fun. > Hey, it's New York City, so of course the drinks aren't cheap. What kind of beers do they serve, or am I better off sticking with cocktails? What about smoking in the venue? ------------------------------ From: Brad Greer Subject: Re: If payment is accepted for pre-orders isn't that an interest free loan? Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 14:17:38 -0400 On 24 Oct 2005 10:54:34 -0700, "Sparky the Wonder Dog" wrote: >DG: I responded to your question "Then why do it?". The big deal (or >medium or small) is whether it is ethical or unethical or just smart >for a business to shift its sales into pre-orders and take the money >up-front. On a mark-by-mark basis, its a small grift and, sure, agreed >to. There are lots of things in life we buy in advance of actually "getting" them. For instance, if you buy a concert ticket you might get the actual ticket stock at the time of transaction (at least you used to when you had to go to the box office to physcially purchase tickets, now you get a PDF file) but you're not really buying the ticket stock, are you? You're buying a performance that hasn't yet happened. You have a choice - you could wait until the day of a concert and then buy a ticket, but you risk getting shut out in that event. Or, you can buy a ticket in advance, allowing the promoters/artists to get your money up-front and know you'll be getting into the show. How is this different than buying a CD/DVD "pre-release" except in the latter case they generally give you some bonus for buying early? ------------------------------ From: "Effty" Subject: Re: drug tests for jobs (NDC) Date: 24 Oct 2005 11:18:59 -0700 Brad Greer wrote: > On 20 Oct 2005 22:36:28 -0700, "Effty" > wrote: > > >Work to live, or live to work? > > > >This whole thread really highlights a problem unique to our modern > >society. Why do we tolerate employers owning the biggest portions of > >our souls? > > > I don't know this is unique to modern society. Early generations had > slavery, indentured servants and feudal lords. All the same, it's not something we should aspire toward. Deferring the human element of life to something inhumane like a giant corporation is one way that we allow ourselves to be oppressed by the modern world. We should aspire to be more than the employee in cubicle Z. Likewise, employers should have more respect for their employees. The drug testing issue does not highlight this as well as the recent symptom of large companies ending benefits to retirees. Any which way, I've never seen an example of a large company suddenly INCREASING it's appreciation of it's employees. I won't hold my breath. ------------------------------ From: "Sparky the Wonder Dog" Subject: Re: If payment is accepted for pre-orders isn't that an interest free loan? Date: 24 Oct 2005 11:21:42 -0700 STH: You think they'll go back to the Europe '72 well? They had three Vault releases already from the tour (including England). There's always the 3 CD Rhino compilation of Fillmore. Pre-order now: two convenient packages: with Dead Ahead + DP 36 or with a T-Shirt emblazoned with the Fillmore West 1969 Skull and Roises logo. ------------------------------ From: "neurodancer" Subject: Re: If payment is accepted for pre-orders isn't that an interest free loan? Date: 24 Oct 2005 11:21:46 -0700 SillyThingsHappen@hotmail.com wrote: > Our country exists on this kind of float. You gotta be careful though > not to kite checks like this. Other people's money. Ho hum. I am > pissed they ran out of the 10 CD boxset. BTW, when will that 40th > anniversary '72 Europe boxset come out ? I think check kiting is a thing of the past. My money is out of the account before I put the check in the mail these days. ND ------------------------------ From: "Sparky the Wonder Dog" Subject: Re: If payment is accepted for pre-orders isn't that an interest free loan? Date: 24 Oct 2005 11:28:48 -0700 I think a business can even do an up-front electronic debit from a personal paper check. Not sure though or how they handle the mechanics. ------------------------------ From: Brad Greer Subject: Re: drug tests for jobs (NDC) Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 14:28:33 -0400 On 24 Oct 2005 11:18:59 -0700, "Effty" wrote: > >Brad Greer wrote: >> On 20 Oct 2005 22:36:28 -0700, "Effty" >> wrote: >> >> >Work to live, or live to work? >> > >> >This whole thread really highlights a problem unique to our modern >> >society. Why do we tolerate employers owning the biggest portions of >> >our souls? >> > >> I don't know this is unique to modern society. Early generations had >> slavery, indentured servants and feudal lords. > >All the same, it's not something we should aspire toward. Deferring >the human element of life to something inhumane like a giant >corporation is one way that we allow ourselves to be oppressed by the >modern world. We should aspire to be more than the employee in cubicle >Z. Likewise, employers should have more respect for their employees. >The drug testing issue does not highlight this as well as the recent >symptom of large companies ending benefits to retirees. Any which way, >I've never seen an example of a large company suddenly INCREASING it's >appreciation of it's employees. I won't hold my breath. I agree that we should aspire to more, but when someone says that corporations "owning the biggest portions of our souls" is a modern condition I think a little perspective is in order. Pissing into a jar is lame, it's demeaning, it's an invasion of privacy. But things have been worse in the past. There are some companies that value their employees. They are few and far between, especially when you talk about larger companies, but they are out there. ------------------------------ Subject: Re: If payment is accepted for pre-orders isn't that an interest free loan? From: kirk@mcelhearn.com (Kirk McElhearn) Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 20:37:03 +0200 Sparky the Wonder Dog wrote: > DG: I responded to your question "Then why do it?". The big deal (or > medium or small) is whether it is ethical or unethical or just smart > for a business to shift its sales into pre-orders and take the money > up-front. On a mark-by-mark basis, its a small grift and, sure, agreed > to. No, because they clearly said that they would not bill credit cards until the set shipped, and they billed immediately; hence, they lied. When I questioned them about this by email, they replied saying they hadn't billed- when I pointed out that they had, they didn't reply. Kirk ------------------------------ From: "Rogues Island's finest" Subject: Kimock on TV! Date: 24 Oct 2005 11:41:04 -0700 http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y48/mark33/stfu7.jpg ------------------------------ From: The Lord of Eltingville Subject: Re: Halloween Music Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 14:34:00 -0400 imsjry wrote: > > Phish-Wolfman's Brother/Story of the Ghost > BOC-Don't fear the Reaper > Sonic Youth-Halloween The Shaggs - It's Halloween > Metallica-The Thing that Should not Be > AC/DC-Hells Bells > Ministry-Every Day is Halloween > Bauhaus-Entire Catalog! Especially Bela Lagosi's Dead > David Bowie-Scary Monsters and Super Creeps > Slayer-Reign in Blood > Dead-Dark Star(10-31-91) ------------------------------ ** FOR YOUR REFERENCE ** The service addresses, to which questions about the list itself and requests to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, are as follows: Internet: dead-flames-request@gdead.berkeley.edu Bitnet: dead-flames-request%gdead.berkeley.edu@ucbcmsa Uucp: ...!{ucbvax,uunet}!gdead.berkeley.edu!dead-flames-request You can send mail to the entire list (and rec.music.gdead) via one of these addresses: Internet: dead-flames@gdead.berkeley.edu Bitnet: dead-flames%gdead.berkeley.edu@ucbcmsa Uucp: ...!{ucbvax,uunet}!gdead.berkeley.edu!dead-flames End of Dead-Flames Digest ****************************** .