From: Digestifier To: Subject: Dead-Flames Digest #433 Dead-Flames Digest #433, Volume #48 Wed, 28 Sep 05 13:00:03 PDT Contents: Re: ndc-Dylan special on PBS tonite ("Everybody's Gonna Be Happy") OT Mike Gordon Talk (larrylebron@gmail.com) Re: Hurricane Benefit show tomorrow (NYC) Katrina Survivor Replies. (Ken Fortenberry) Re: ndd-A Rose is a rose ("Everybody's Gonna Be Happy") Re: ndc-Dylan special on PBS tonite (wyeknot) Re: Umphrey's in NYC -- Yesss! (DB) Re: TRISTAN GOT HIS LICENSE!!!! (Steve Lenier) Re: 3 Brazilian killed in Iraq, Bush inconsolable ("Dave Kelly") Re: ndc-Dylan special on PBS tonite (wyeknot) Re: Umphrey's in NYC -- Yesss! ("Greg Sasso") Re: ndc-Dylan special on PBS tonite ("Mizshely") Re: Shut Down The War Machine ("Ray") We're Excited (NDC) (Seth Jackson) Download Series Vol. 6 ("David Gans") Re: TRISTAN GOT HIS LICENSE!!!! (Ken Fortenberry) Re: ndc-Dylan special on PBS tonite (wyeknot) Re: Shut Down The War Machine ("DGDevin") Re: Flying Spaghetti Monster ("Andrew Murawa") Re: Shut Down The War Machine ("DGDevin") Re: Shut Down The War Machine (Sherry) Re: (NDC) Bug Man goin' down? (John Doherty) Re: ndc-Dylan special on PBS tonite ("Stephen St.") Re: Flying Spaghetti Monster (joker4153@comcast.net) Re: TRISTAN GOT HIS LICENSE!!!! ("scarletbgonias@hotmail.com") Re: Broadcasting the Download Series Vol. 6 ("Sean Baker") Re: Shut Down The War Machine ("DGDevin") Re: Theresa and the Turtle WAX ("Sean Baker") Re: TRISTAN GOT HIS LICENSE!!!! ("Stuknot") ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Everybody's Gonna Be Happy" Subject: Re: ndc-Dylan special on PBS tonite Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 11:42:27 -0700 "pookietooth" wrote in message news:1127931988.270501.199330@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > JimK wrote: >> >> IIRC, Seeger said he was pissed because the sound was so bad that >> nobody could understand any of the words. One of the others >> interviewed said he thought Pete was upset with the sound because his >> father had a hearing problem and was bothered by the sound. There have >> been a lot of rumors over the years about Seeger's disdain for Dylan's >> electric music, but I'm not sure any have ever been confirmed. > Of course he did what any person would do when their father's hearing > aid is having trouble, he picks up an axe to cut off Dylan's vocals. > Or maybe he realized later that he is an egomaniacal control freak and > tried to put a different spin on events after the fact. > Hmmm, I wonder which is true? That kinda sums up the whole deal. Dylan wasn't making music for old fathers with hearing aids. He was young, and was making music that reflected what he and other young people were thinking. He put the music in a rock and roll / R&B / blues / country context--all forms of music despised by the purist folkies. I always thought Dylan's biggest contribution to music wasn't necessarily the music itself, it was his willingness to try new things and to write songs that could be interpreted a million different ways depending on the individual. This horrified the purists. The fact that Seeger was allegedly pissed about the hearing aid thing shows just how out of touch he was with what Dylan was really doing. He left the old fogie folkies behind, he wasn't catering to them. So, of course we need to cut his cables with an axe. LOL. EGBH ------------------------------ From: larrylebron@gmail.com Subject: OT Mike Gordon Talk Date: 28 Sep 2005 11:42:42 -0700 Hey all, I was lucky enough to attend this talk when Mike came to my school before playing a local gig. I also managed to get a pretty decent recording which I'm very excited to share with all of you. My friend Dan has been kind enough to host it on his website, so you can go and stream/download right now! Enjoy! The link is in the center at the bottom of his homepage. He's also a great graphic designer and website designer! www.pithproductions.com ------------------------------ From: Ken Fortenberry Subject: Re: Hurricane Benefit show tomorrow (NYC) Katrina Survivor Replies. Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 18:42:50 GMT Gabe Grall wrote: > As a bona fide Katrina Survior, I think "Benefit" concerts like this one are > a ripoff. Just who the hell is "The New Orleans Musicians Clinic" anyway ? You don't know who they are but you think their benefit concert is a ripoff ? Uh huh. > Telethons, Benefit Concerts and the like do nothing to help the true > survivors of this Hurricane. Any money you send to The Red Cross only > benefits The Red Cross. How do you tell the "true survivors" from the fake ones ? It's too bad about you but the American Red Cross is one of the best charities to whom one can donate. http://www.redcross.org/news/ds/hurricanes/katrina_facts.html http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=3277 > You want to help a Hurricane Survivor ? Mail me a dollar. ... You're sittin' in front of a computer in Arkansas panhandling for handouts in a Usenet newsgroup. Meanwhile the American Red Cross is housing over 300,000 people in temporary shelters and hotel/motels. Guess where my dollar is going. -- Ken Fortenberry ------------------------------ From: "Everybody's Gonna Be Happy" Subject: Re: ndd-A Rose is a rose Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 11:44:24 -0700 "Sean Baker" wrote in message news:11jlmnm6sa1kd58@news.supernews.com... > Anybody catch the interview of "Marty" Scorsesi with Charlie Rose. I > don't think I've ever seen a bad interview by Rose. This was a fun > interview for both. A great end to two nights of excellent PBS tee vee. After Scorcese did a big explanation of how no one could really understand Dylan because he wasn't necessarily trying to be understood, Rose asks him "so how can we understand Bob Dylan?". I turned it off. EGBH ------------------------------ From: wyeknot Subject: Re: ndc-Dylan special on PBS tonite Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 14:45:07 -0400 Mizshely wrote: > Lol! As the kid who embarrassed herself for going on 40 years now with > that movie magazine comment (which landed up in this film, can't I get > some $$$ kicked my way for THAT???) , I can testify that even in > person, it is difficult to understand what Dylan says. Unless you > listen. He is amazing. Always was, always will be. That moment was priceless! Your "movie magazine" reply fairly validated Dylan's contempt at the ridiculousness of the whole question/answer/mythology scene. That was one highlight of the movie! Matt ------------------------------ From: DB Subject: Re: Umphrey's in NYC -- Yesss! Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 14:46:01 -0400 Greg Sasso wrote: > These shows will sell out in advance. > > No question. > > I've seen a bunch of UM recently, all of it pretty awesome. > I went to the box office today and picked up a pair for each night. $22.50 each and no stupid TM charges. A true bargain price and Umphrey's is on fire these days. I can't wait. November is shaping up to be a busy concert month in the NYC area. The Derek Trucks Band is playing Saturday the 12th at Town Hall, then Umphrey's the following weekend at Irving Plaza, then Phil in Newark and to ice the proverbial cake, the Master will be returning to the Bowery Ballroom on 11/26. I'm going to need to spend some time in a rest home after all those shows. DB ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 11:53:41 -0700 Subject: Re: TRISTAN GOT HIS LICENSE!!!! From: Steve Lenier in article 1127921658.948726.247300@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, scarletbgonias@hotmail.com at scarletbgonias@hotmail.com wrote on 9/28/05 8:34 AM: > Whew, that was a close call Steve. Hope you didn't spill any beer? > > Theresa > of course not! gotta protect what's important :) And I would've hated to smash up that '67 Cougar I drove back then, I loved that car! ------------------------------ From: "Dave Kelly" Subject: Re: 3 Brazilian killed in Iraq, Bush inconsolable Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 18:54:12 GMT "Steve Lenier" wrote in message news:BF5F7C8B.319C2%slenier@comcast.net... > I liked it :) Teri thought it was weak. > > Steve Steve What is teri wearing right about now? ....and just so we're on the same page..uh...Teri is a chick, right?....I DONT wanna know what steve teri has on! ------------------------------ From: wyeknot Subject: Re: ndc-Dylan special on PBS tonite Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 14:54:54 -0400 Everybody's Gonna Be Happy wrote: > "JimK" wrote in message >>Joan Baez can sure be annoying at times (note her phony, intellectual >>speaking mannerisms and accents during one of those interviews from >>the early days), but she seems to have become a little more real and >>down to earth in her old age. I actually thought she was pretty cool >>in her latter day observations about Dylan. There's no doubt that she >>probably knows him as well as anyone. > > I'd bang her now. She has aged rather nicely. Matt ------------------------------ From: "Greg Sasso" Subject: Re: Umphrey's in NYC -- Yesss! Date: 28 Sep 2005 11:56:21 -0700 I HIGHTLY reccomend you listen to the recent Northampton, Boston, Hartford, and Providence shows. On the archive. All 4 were stellar. ------------------------------ From: "Mizshely" Subject: Re: ndc-Dylan special on PBS tonite Date: 28 Sep 2005 11:56:59 -0700 Well, just imagine being 15, wanting desperately to be cool, and having most of the school on your case for that comment. However, looking back, I was right on the money and a lof of those pretentious pseudo-intellectuals were NOT. David Nelson once told me that he and Jerry Garcia watched that conference together and they thought I was cool. So I guess looking back, even a teeny bopper has her moments!!! ------------------------------ From: "Ray" Subject: Re: Shut Down The War Machine Date: 28 Sep 2005 11:57:40 -0700 DGDevin wrote: > "Ray" wrote: > > Things have gotten so odious under this Adminstration that even some > > hardcore Repubs are finally getting disgusted. Funny how you'd never > > know that from the rhetoric of the hardcore see-no-evil, > > blame-anyyone-and-anything-else Bushies around here though. > > That's the nature of the beast, fanatics willfully blind themselves > regardless of which end of the spectrum they come from, for every > Bush-apologist there is a matching donation from some left-wingnut who > thinks 9/11 was planned in the Whitehouse basement. The number of people who think that 9/11 was a Bush conspiracy is far lower than the number of Bush apologists that are out there. Just look at the number of people who glom onto Rush's every Bush-apologist-word (regular audience, last time I checked: ~20M), and compare that to, well, there's nothing to compare that to. No comparatively large liberal organization or entity buys into or promotes the 9/11-was-a-Bush-conspiracy canard. > I read a bunch of > newsgroups, and in some suggesting that the invasion of Iraq was anything > less than a brilliant and vital strategic move results in a blowtorch > reaction, meanwhile, in r.m.gd the counter-wingnuts are trying to figure out > how BushCo was able to intentionally *aim* Katrina at an area administered > by Dem politicians who might have a teensy tiny bit of a problem with > corruption and incompetence but not really enough to be worth mentioning. 2 points: 1) I've read only one person who even so much as suggested in this newsgroup that BushCo may have intentionally aimed Katrina at New Orleans, and that was in response to the posting of an equally ludicrous theory that Katrina was a Russian plot. (Said ludicrous Russian plot theory was not incidentaly covered by Fox News.com - your 'Fair and Balanced' source of ludicrous right-wingnut theories) 2) Many people here who are not on the right have freely acknowledged that Dem politicians at the local and state level are, in addition to the Repub politicians at the federal level, responsible for the inexusably poor government response to Katrina. In fact, I haven't read one person who is not on the right here that has asserted otherwise. Some on the right here, however, have repeatedly excoriated the Dem politicians at the local and state level while at the same time doing all they can to keep any and all blame and heat away from the Repub politicians at the Fed level - a lack of objectivity and balance that is beyond absurd. Ray ------------------------------ From: Seth Jackson Subject: We're Excited (NDC) Reply-To: hitmeister .at. mindspring .dot. com Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 18:59:13 GMT We just learned that our kids' elementary school was officially named a Blue Ribbon School by the U.S. Dept. of Education under the No Child Left Behind Program. According to the Dept. of Education website, "The No Child Left Behind Blue Ribbon Schools Program honors public and private K-12 schools that are either academically superior in their states or that demonstrate dramatic gains in student achievement." http://www.ed.gov/programs/nclbbrs/index.html ------------------------------ From: "David Gans" Subject: Download Series Vol. 6 Date: 28 Sep 2005 12:00:22 -0700 David Lemieux sent me the October download and I'm going to sneak-preview some of it tonight at 8pm pdt on KPFA. You can listen online at http://www.kpfa.org or http://www.kfcf.org ------------------------------ From: Ken Fortenberry Subject: Re: TRISTAN GOT HIS LICENSE!!!! Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 19:01:31 GMT Sherry wrote: > WaHOOOOOOOO! My son got his license today! > > I am SO happy for him! :) I was reluctant to ask, but my curiosity is getting the better of me. Why is TRISTAN GOT HIS LICENSE!!!! a sub-thread of Subject: For the sick ones in this group ? -- Ken Fortenberry- operating under the theory that the only dumb question is the one you don't ask. ------------------------------ From: wyeknot Subject: Re: ndc-Dylan special on PBS tonite Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:01:16 -0400 Mizshely wrote: > Well, just imagine being 15, wanting desperately to be cool, and having > most of the school on your case for that comment. However, looking > back, I was right on the money and a lof of those pretentious > pseudo-intellectuals were NOT. David Nelson once told me that he and > Jerry Garcia watched that conference together and they thought I was > cool. Hence, a highlight of the movie. You were cool! Whether you meant to or not, you were right on the money. Matt ------------------------------ From: "DGDevin" Subject: Re: Shut Down The War Machine Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 19:03:48 GMT "JimK" wrote in message news:o45lj1d61rdjtus8ld8h1ddg0de1bpo3ak@4ax.com... > On 27 Sep 2005 23:01:04 -0700, "Ray" wrote: > While agreeing that violent protestors don't help the cause, I'm not > exactly sure what the nonviolent protestors are supposed to do about > them, other than to loudly and clearly condemn their actions. After > all, it is a free country and there's no way to prevent them from > showing up. Once they do, unfortunately, it's up to the police to > control them. > > JimK I suggested assigning crowd marshalls to follow the guys in black with the backbacks full of ballistic objects, the marshalls have video cameras and cellphones, when they see someone winging lug-nuts at the cops or smashing a window or chaining together newspaper vending boxes to block a street, they shoot video and call the police. This is not without risk, the anarchist types are clearly more than willing to see blood spilled, so you'd need some big, ugly crowd marshalls to handle this. But in many cases I suspect just contronting the violence-vampires would be enough, if the bandanas were yanked from their faces and they realized they were surrounded by people who weren't going to tolerate their bullshit I bet many of them would go home to brood and plot rather than risk being identified and locked up. Beyond that the non-violent organizers need to be more forceful in condemning the violent factions and in cooperating with the authorities to help see the trouble-makers behind bars, and that's not something I see happening, the "us vs. them" mentality is too entrenched in the anti-war movement, the idea of helping the cops just wouldn't digest too well. How many people here, finding themselves marching beside someone wearing a mask, would ask that person why they need to conceal their identity, much less stop that person from smashing a shop window? Let's not kid ourselves, a lot of the people marching are actually sympathetic to the idea of a Starbucks being trashed or even an Army recruiting office being burned. So long as they listen to the Dead and have some good dope to share they get a pass, so long as they're against Bush they can get away with being cafe revolutionaries or even violent thugs. Talk about a deal with the devil. I watched this several decades ago up close and I'm seeing it again today, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend," it was bullshit then and its bullshit now. But it won't change, as Ray points out, the non-violent groups are too afraid of splitting the movement and I believe of losing their progressive cred, so they won't lift a finger when the Stalinist/fascist/anarchist mobsters show up, masked, packs full of wrenches and frozen cans of soda, and afterwards when the city is cleaning up the mess the whole damn movement looks like a bunch of apes and the clowns in the Whitehouse get to smile and go on with fucking up something else, just lovely. ------------------------------ From: "Andrew Murawa" Subject: Re: Flying Spaghetti Monster Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 12:04:39 -0700 "brew ziggins" wrote in message news:MPG.1da49bea51fd4e1d9897ed@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu... > Thus spake hayman@nospam.duke.edu... >> I thought this was moderately funny; the comments from the Kansas >> board >> of ed are the best part, >> N >> >> http://www.venganza.org/ > > Ah, yes, the pastafarians... > > Apparently there's a theological schism as to whether the FSM is made > of > linguine or fettucini. Um, since he is the Flying Spaghetti Monster (praise be to him), wouldn't he logically be made of spaghetti? Although I'm quite sure logic and religion have no business being in bed together... ------------------------------ From: "DGDevin" Subject: Re: Shut Down The War Machine Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 19:08:03 GMT "Ray" wrote in message news:1127921570.328005.265570@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com... > I think DG brings up a good point in that non-violent protestors could, > in addition to loudly and clearly condemn the actions of violent > protestors, also use video cameras and the like to document the actions > of violent protestors and turn such records over to law enforcement > officials. Then again, perhaps law enforcement officials discourage > such actions as too dangerous and the work of law enforcement > officials, dunno. I don't think they would encourage actual butt-kicking, but every cop I know believes Citizens Getting Involved is holy writ, there is nothing they like better than someome dropping a dime so they can grab somebody who needs grabbing, and I think somebody who brings a pipe-wrench and a mask and a bag of big nuts and bolts to an anti-war protest march needs grabbing. > At minimum, I would ideally like to see non-violent/non-ideologically > fascist protest organizers denounce not work with fascist groups like > ANSWER. I'm guessing that the non-fascist groups are concerned that > doing so would split the portest movement, and it would - ANSWER is > very well organized and most people who go to protests organized by > them have no idea that they are knee-jerk anti-American fascists. But > IMO by not distancing themselves from ANSWER the non-fascist organizers > are leaving themselves open to attacks from the right, who have and > will continue to characterize the entire movement as > communist/fascist/anti-American and point to ANSWER as 'proof'. Sad, > really. ANSWER is a cancer on the movement. > > Ray Well said. ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Shut Down The War Machine From: Sherry Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 19:13:14 GMT >> Reminds me of a tee shirt "Join the marines, travel to exotic places, >> meet interesting people ..... and kill them" > > Don't forget...we used to screw their cute women too... And leave their kids and women to be shunned by their communities, tossed aside like so much garbage - by both "sides." Sherry in Vermont ------------------------------ From: John Doherty Subject: Re: (NDC) Bug Man goin' down? Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:22:11 -0400 In article <1127927086.398443.253310@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "scarletbgonias@hotmail.com" wrote: > There'll be swinging, swaying and music playing > And dancing in the street > > Next........ .....will it be Frist indictment over the "blind" trust insider stock sale? ....or maybe the rumored Rove indictment in October? I read recently that the GOP government corruption is likely unprecedented. Can you recall a similar scenario when the Dems (or any other party in history) controlled the Presidency, the Senate & House, and there were criminal investigations into all three branches (or their leaders, in the case of congress)? Bringing honor & dignity back! Yow! JD ------------------------------ From: "Stephen St." Subject: Re: ndc-Dylan special on PBS tonite Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 19:24:15 GMT "Everybody's Gonna Be Happy" wrote in message news:MGz_e.686$aB1.5000@eagle.america.net... > > That folkie crowd was one stuck-up and snobby bunch. Any deviation from > the accepted norm of acoustic folk perfection, any lyrics that spoke to > anything other than civil rights and world peace and labor organizing was > automatically assumed to be a threat to the genre. > Ive seen that right here on usenet! Imagine that! ------------------------------ From: joker4153@comcast.net Subject: Re: Flying Spaghetti Monster Date: 28 Sep 2005 12:27:16 -0700 brew ziggins wrote: > Thus spake scarletbgonias@hotmail.com... > > Brew wrote: > > > > "Apparently there's a theological schism as to whether the FSM is made > > of > > linguine or fettucini. " > > > > What, not Angel Hair? > > I only follow these things so closely. I'm sure if you looked hard > enough you could find an Angel Hair sect. > > -- > Wait a sec...I thought it was all about heiney sects! Damn, I never get the memos... But, as they say down Rio Grande way, hasta la rasta pasta! ------------------------------ From: "scarletbgonias@hotmail.com" Subject: Re: TRISTAN GOT HIS LICENSE!!!! Date: 28 Sep 2005 12:28:54 -0700 Nice car! I just love those muscle cars from the 60s. Give me a '67 Shelby GT500 anyday. Yeah baby. Muscle cars were better in the 60s (and 70s) Theresa ------------------------------ From: "Sean Baker" Subject: Re: Broadcasting the Download Series Vol. 6 Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 14:31:33 -0500 Thanks for sharing. Peace, Sean -- "Every now and then when your life gets complicated and the weasels start closing in, the only real cure is to load up on heinous chemicals and then drive like a bastard from Hollywood to Las Vegas." Hunter S. Thompson My music list for trades: http://db.etree.org/FionaRCB ------------------------------ From: "DGDevin" Subject: Re: Shut Down The War Machine Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 19:33:43 GMT "Ray" wrote in message news:1127933860.382303.221710@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > The number of people who think that 9/11 was a Bush conspiracy is far > lower than the number of Bush apologists that are out there. Just look > at the number of people who glom onto Rush's every Bush-apologist-word > (regular audience, last time I checked: ~20M), and compare that to, > well, there's nothing to compare that to. No comparatively large > liberal organization or entity buys into or promotes the > 9/11-was-a-Bush-conspiracy canard. I suppose it's my fault for using that as an example, maybe I should have said that the Rush-listeners are matched by people who will instincively blame Bush and his party while giving a pass to anyone with a "D" after their name. So if the local schools suck, it's because the NCLB program is flawed, the notion of asking why the local school board is such a mess is glossed over. > 1) I've read only one person who even so much as suggested in this > newsgroup that BushCo may have intentionally aimed Katrina at New > Orleans, and that was in response to the posting of an equally > ludicrous theory that Katrina was a Russian plot. My fault again, it was meant as humorous hyperbole, I am astonished to learn that someone advanced it as a serious theory. > (Said ludicrous > Russian plot theory was not incidentaly covered by Fox News.com - your > 'Fair and Balanced' source of ludicrous right-wingnut theories) Not *my* source of anything, rarely watch Fox, about the only time I might see their news is waiting for The Simpsons to start or something.... > 2) Many people here who are not on the right have freely acknowledged > that Dem politicians at the local and state level are, in addition to > the Repub politicians at the federal level, responsible for the > inexusably poor government response to Katrina. In fact, I haven't > read one person who is not on the right here that has asserted > otherwise. Some on the right here, however, have repeatedly excoriated > the Dem politicians at the local and state level while at the same time > doing all they can to keep any and all blame and heat away from the > Repub politicians at the Fed level - a lack of objectivity and balance > that is beyond absurd. > > Ray Yup, but like I said, extremists do that. Still, Katrina excepted, you're not suggesting that the overall tone of this group isn't heavily leftward, a few persistent rightward-spiraling gadflies being the exception, are you? ;--) ------------------------------ From: "Sean Baker" Subject: Re: Theresa and the Turtle WAX Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 14:42:08 -0500 wrote in message news:1127935734.014010.199300@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > Nice car! I just love those muscle cars from the 60s. Give me a '67 > Shelby GT500 anyday. Yeah baby. > > Muscle cars were better in the 60s (and 70s) > > Theresa Scarlet, Why... WHY Can't I get the image of you in some cut-off 501's a gavanized bucket of suds and a sea sponge outta my head now? NO, do not DO NOT show me those! I'll never be able to finish my chores today. Thank you, Peace, Sean -- "Every now and then when your life gets complicated and the weasels start closing in, the only real cure is to load up on heinous chemicals and then drive like a bastard from Hollywood to Las Vegas." Hunter S. Thompson My music list for trades: http://db.etree.org/FionaRCB ------------------------------ From: "Stuknot" Subject: Re: TRISTAN GOT HIS LICENSE!!!! Date: 28 Sep 2005 12:43:11 -0700 Steve Lenier wrote: >> > I'm sure we all have stories where we were more stupid than we deserved to > live through... At the time I was growing up on LI, NY, the drinking age was 18, and we could get into bars at 16 or so. My buddy Charlie had a 1967 Lincoln Continental with suicide doors that we had to start with a screwdriver. The thing weighed several tons. Just to show how times have changed, we'd go to my buddy Tim's house to pick him up and before he'd let us go Tim's father would ask, "You guys going out?" "Yes." "You going to be drinking?" "Yes." "You going to be driving?" "Yes" .... "Just make sure you take the Conti." John H. ------------------------------ ** FOR YOUR REFERENCE ** The service addresses, to which questions about the list itself and requests to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, are as follows: Internet: dead-flames-request@gdead.berkeley.edu Bitnet: dead-flames-request%gdead.berkeley.edu@ucbcmsa Uucp: ...!{ucbvax,uunet}!gdead.berkeley.edu!dead-flames-request You can send mail to the entire list (and rec.music.gdead) via one of these addresses: Internet: dead-flames@gdead.berkeley.edu Bitnet: dead-flames%gdead.berkeley.edu@ucbcmsa Uucp: ...!{ucbvax,uunet}!gdead.berkeley.edu!dead-flames End of Dead-Flames Digest ****************************** .