From: Digestifier To: Subject: Dead-Flames Digest #540 Dead-Flames Digest #540, Volume #48 Sun, 9 Oct 05 23:00:01 PDT Contents: Dead Can Dance at Radio City 10-8-05 ("seraphim") Re: Pigpen... ("Richard Morris") And this archive message means what? ("Richard Morris") Re: Pigpen... ("The Iron Muffin") Re: And this archive message means what? (Gary & Ellie) Re: Pigpen... ("Tim Ujin") Follow the sinking W...(NDC) (John Doherty) Re: Happy Birthday John ("Olompali4") Short Ends for Brothers In Law ("Dave Kelly") Re: Beer query ("Neil X.") Re: Short Ends for Brothers In Law ("Olompali4") Re: Off Topic: Now in paperback for the first time (Tim Donohoe) Re: Pigpen... (JimK) Here comes Vince! ("Steve Terry") Re: Short Ends for Brothers In Law ("Carlisle") Re: Here comes Vince! ("Rupert") Re: Here comes Vince! ("frndthdevl") Re: Short Ends for Brothers In Law (kpnnews@yahoo.com) Re: Short Ends for Brothers In Law ("frndthdevl") Re: Beer query (kpnnews@yahoo.com) Wow! (kpnnews@yahoo.com) Re: Beer query ("Dave") Re: Pigpen... ("Walter Karmazyn") Re: Phil NYE in San Francisco (band beyond description) From Ron Paul...... (Walter Karmazyn) Re: Watchya Listenin' To Lately? (band beyond description) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "seraphim" Subject: Dead Can Dance at Radio City 10-8-05 Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 01:40:15 GMT Wow what a fuckin great show............I am still buzzed ------------------------------ From: "Richard Morris" Subject: Re: Pigpen... Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 18:52:27 -0700 "Steve Terry" wrote in message news:diccf0$2qjo$1@news.iquest.net... > Maybe it's just me, but Pig's lengthy "raps" get rather boring pretty > fast. Thank god the band is cookin' behind him otherwise I'd be snoozin. > Don't get me wrong, I like his singing, Mr. Charlie, Hard to Handle, Easy > Wind, for example. It's just those mindless ramblings during Lovelight and > Good Lovin that lose me. Why do those songs have to be 20 minutes long? Am > I in the minority? Am I missing something? Please enlighten me. Jeez ... we hafta put up with alla this *conservativism* in the newsgroup, now heresy rears its ugly head. Steve, Steve, Steve. When you are playing four hour shows, what is a 20 minute song? It is *nothing*. Actually, at the time I was not a huge huge fan of the extended snake jams around Pig. I loved the Dark Star and Other One trips that the band was taking at the time, and to an extent the Pig Pen interludes seemed like pandering. "Gimme some ass-kinking improvisation, not the Brooklyn Bridge!" However, looking back, and listening back, I don't think I appreciated the Pig spots as much as I could have. Maybe I am regressing in my old age, but a good, long Lovelight is extraordinarily satsifying to me now. And the benign humor in Pig's rants is golden stuff. R. ------------------------------ From: "Richard Morris" Subject: And this archive message means what? Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 18:55:58 -0700 Got this message on the archive, 12-12-72: "This show is currently unavailable for download because it cannot be located on our servers. We apologize for the inconvenience and hope to have access to this show restored as soon as possible." Should this message be taken at face value, or is it a precursor to something else--like a disappearing show? R. -- Drop "trousers" to respond via email. ------------------------------ Reply-To: "The Iron Muffin" From: "The Iron Muffin" Subject: Re: Pigpen... Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 22:06:08 -0400 Richard Morris wrote: > Steve Terry wrote: > > Maybe it's just me, but Pig's lengthy "raps" get rather boring pretty > > fast. Thank god the band is cookin' behind him otherwise I'd be snoozin. > > Don't get me wrong, I like his singing, Mr. Charlie, Hard to Handle, Easy > > Wind, for example. It's just those mindless ramblings during Lovelight and > > Good Lovin that lose me. Why do those songs have to be 20 minutes long? Am > > I in the minority? Am I missing something? Please enlighten me. > > Jeez ... we hafta put up with alla this *conservativism* in the newsgroup, > now heresy rears its ugly head. > > Steve, Steve, Steve. When you are playing four hour shows, what is a 20 > minute song? It is *nothing*. HRYK. > Actually, at the time I was not a huge huge fan of the extended snake jams > around Pig. I loved the Dark Star and Other One trips that the band was > taking at the time, and to an extent the Pig Pen interludes seemed like > pandering. "Gimme some ass-kinking improvisation, not the Brooklyn Bridge!" HRYK. > However, looking back, and listening back, I don't think I appreciated the > Pig spots as much as I could have. Maybe I am regressing in my old age, but > a good, long Lovelight is extraordinarily satsifying to me now. And the > benign humor in Pig's rants is golden stuff. HRYK. -- The Iron Muffin DEAD FREAKS UNITE Who are you? Where are you? How are you? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 22:20:53 -0400 From: Gary & Ellie Reply-To: gary.and.ellie@gmail.com Subject: Re: And this archive message means what? Richard Morris wrote: > Got this message on the archive, 12-12-72: > > "This show is currently unavailable for download because it cannot be > located on our servers. We apologize for the inconvenience and hope to have > access to this show restored as soon as possible." > > Should this message be taken at face value, or is it a precursor to > something else--like a disappearing show? > > R. > > Take it at face value. ------------------------------ From: "Tim Ujin" Subject: Re: Pigpen... Date: 9 Oct 2005 19:35:19 -0700 "she's my little pony she's my sweet black mare I love my little pony I ride her everwhere" ------------------------------ From: John Doherty Subject: Follow the sinking W...(NDC) Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 22:56:28 -0400 for all you seeking a 'nother time wasting amusement on the Dubya dubya, dial up: http://www.planetdan.net/pics/misc/georgie.htm If the preznit gets stuck, or you just have the urge to toss him around a bit, use the cursor... ------------------------------ From: "Olompali4" Subject: Re: Happy Birthday John Date: 9 Oct 2005 20:05:38 -0700 My intentions are good, I use my intuition It takes me for a ride But I never understood other people's superstitions It seemed like suicide As I play the game of life I try to make it better each and every day And when I struggle in the night The magic of the music seems to light the way Ah, Intuition takes me there Intuition takes me everywhere Well my instincts are fine I had to learn to use them in order to survive And time after time confirmed an old suspicion It's good to be alive And when I'm deep down and out and lose communication With nothing left to say It's then I realize it's only a condition Of seeing things that way Intuition/John Lennon, NFA! Give Peace A Chance ------------------------------ From: "Dave Kelly" Subject: Short Ends for Brothers In Law Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 03:19:03 GMT Hadda a taste for some "Q" this evening... Took it down to "Brothers In Law" on Divisadero. Peeped the short ends/mixed sauce/BBQ beans/white bread ( Keeping it real with the white bread...Nahmeen?) Shit was POPPIN' Short ends was fallin' off the bone... Beans was off the chain! I kept it strickly old school with a grape soda...washed the leftovers down wit a Lagunitas copper ale...feel me... We roll like that. Where does other BBQ jump off? Sweet-Q ------------------------------ From: "Neil X." Subject: Re: Beer query Date: 9 Oct 2005 20:20:47 -0700 > Larry asked: > > The query is: Is it possible that a brewer would add > sugars to a beer to avoid bitterness? Well, that would not be common, but it could be deliberately done. Overly sweet beers are usually the result of incomplete fermentation--beer is cloyingingly sweet before the yeast is added. The yeast digests all that sugar and secretes ethanol, that's the process of fermentation. If there is too much sugar added, the yeast cannot ferment all of it before it toxifies itself on it's own waste (the alcohol is toxic to yeast.) Or if there is something wrong with the fermentation that prevents the yeast frome completely fermenting the beer, there also will be left over sugar. Either way, sweet beer is usually the result of a brewing mistake...... Peace, Neil X. ------------------------------ From: "Olompali4" Subject: Re: Short Ends for Brothers In Law Date: 9 Oct 2005 20:25:23 -0700 > Where does other BBQ jump off? It sure as hell ain't west of the Mississippi..... ------------------------------ From: Tim Donohoe Subject: Re: Off Topic: Now in paperback for the first time Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 03:32:52 GMT marc_catone@yahoo.com wrote: > Tim Donohoe wrote: > >>marc_catone@yahoo.com wrote: >> >>>Some of you may remember my book from the 1980s, "As I Write This >>>Letter: An American >>>Generation Remembers The Beatles", >> >>Sorry no, but I bet I can find any essay in your book for free on the >>web somewhere. Thanks for shilling your crap, but I'm not interested. > > > Well...OK...but this is fiction, there aren't any essays. > > Marc > Even worse. Poor bastard ------------------------------ From: JimK Subject: Re: Pigpen... Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 23:36:42 -0400 Reply-To: jkezwind@comcast.net On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 01:20:40 GMT, mrose101 wrote: >Steve Terry wrote: > >>Maybe it's just me, but Pig's lengthy "raps" get rather boring pretty fast. >>Thank god the band is cookin' behind him otherwise I'd be snoozin. Don't get >>me wrong, I like his singing, Mr. Charlie, Hard to Handle, Easy Wind, for >>example. It's just those mindless ramblings during Lovelight and Good Lovin >>that lose me. Why do those songs have to be 20 minutes long? Am I in the >>minority? Am I missing something? Please enlighten me. >> >> >> >> >like the old joke say...you hadda be there Not a joke, really. I'm sure Pig's raps were much better in person where his showmanship, which can only be imagined with recordings, had to be mesmerizing. Let's hear from the lucky souls out there who saw Pig do his thing. JimK ------------------------------ From: "Steve Terry" Subject: Here comes Vince! Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 22:29:02 -0500 Hurry, run and hide! http://www.hurricaneadvisories.com/ What happens when we run out of letters to name these storms? ------------------------------ From: "Carlisle" Subject: Re: Short Ends for Brothers In Law Date: 9 Oct 2005 20:37:20 -0700 Dave Kelly wrote: > Hadda a taste for some "Q" this evening... > Took it down to "Brothers In Law" on Divisadero. > Peeped the short ends/mixed sauce/BBQ beans/white bread > ( Keeping it real with the white bread...Nahmeen?) > Shit was POPPIN' > Short ends was fallin' off the bone... > Beans was off the chain! > I kept it strickly old school with a grape soda...washed the > leftovers down wit a Lagunitas copper ale...feel me... > We roll like that. > Where does other BBQ jump off? > > Sweet-Q Well since you mention it, this is a local favorite here in Lexington, KY~ http://www.famousdaves.com/ That Sweet-Q post made my mouth water! No kidding. I want a "samich" with slaw!! I'll just have to settle for some Doritos. ;( enjoy, CC ------------------------------ From: "Rupert" Subject: Re: Here comes Vince! Date: 9 Oct 2005 21:02:35 -0700 Oh fuck! Is it gonna sing "Samba In The Rain"? Don't ignore Vince, it will follow you wherever you go. ------------------------------ From: "frndthdevl" Subject: Re: Here comes Vince! Date: 9 Oct 2005 21:06:07 -0700 Vince Hermann and David gans? http://www.jamminjamaica.com/ ------------------------------ From: kpnnews@yahoo.com Subject: Re: Short Ends for Brothers In Law Date: 9 Oct 2005 21:17:16 -0700 Dave Kelly wrote: > Where does other BBQ jump off? http://www.arthurbryants.com/ For real. The best I have ever had period. Nothing else even comes close. Truly a religious experience. Now has anyone had any of that Memphis "hot chicken"? That's definitely next on my list. Kurt ------------------------------ From: "frndthdevl" Subject: Re: Short Ends for Brothers In Law Date: 9 Oct 2005 21:24:53 -0700 Olompali4 wrote: > > Where does other BBQ jump off? > > It sure as hell ain't west of the Mississippi..... if people can talk Rick bayless and "best" mexican food than there MAY be bbq wesdt of the mississip. ; ) Of course Brother's in Laws 1,2,3 or whatever is not even the best BBQ in the Bay Area. Everett and Jones in Berkleley blows that off. Taken to go to the Berkeley pier to snack on? mmmm peace jeff ------------------------------ From: kpnnews@yahoo.com Subject: Re: Beer query Date: 9 Oct 2005 21:27:48 -0700 Neil X. wrote: > > Larry asked: > > > > The query is: Is it possible that a brewer would add > > sugars to a beer to avoid bitterness? > > > Well, that would not be common, but it could be deliberately done. > Overly sweet beers are usually the result of incomplete > fermentation--beer is cloyingingly sweet before the yeast is added. > The yeast digests all that sugar and secretes ethanol, that's the > process of fermentation. If there is too much sugar added, the yeast > cannot ferment all of it before it toxifies itself on it's own waste > (the alcohol is toxic to yeast.) Or if there is something wrong with > the fermentation that prevents the yeast frome completely fermenting > the beer, there also will be left over sugar. Mmmm... not true. You made me go get my homebrewing manuals. Depending on the mash temperature, you can get more or less fermentable sugars. And I quote... "In general, the higher the mash temperatures will produce dextrinous (heavy bodied beer) worts in a very short, active period, while lower temperatures produce more fermentable (lighter bodied, more alcoholic beer) worts over a longer period." (Charlie Papazian). Hence it is entirely possible within German beer law to produce a sweet (yucky) beer. High temp mash with little grain + little hops = 3% malta (ever had it?). That being said, I bet they simply added some unfermentable sugars at bottling. Kurt ( ------------------------------ From: kpnnews@yahoo.com Subject: Wow! Date: 9 Oct 2005 21:30:50 -0700 Sean Baker wrote: > Kimock n' Crew blew the roof offa the Park Wes' las' NITE. I just felt like changing the subject line. This seemed like as good a time as any. Thanks for the review. I'll check it out :) Kurt ------------------------------ From: "Dave" Subject: Re: Beer query Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 18:00:43 +1300 wrote in message news:1128918468.774490.38300@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > > Neil X. wrote: > > > Larry asked: > > > > > > The query is: Is it possible that a brewer would add > > > sugars to a beer to avoid bitterness? > > > > > > Well, that would not be common, but it could be deliberately done. > > Overly sweet beers are usually the result of incomplete > > fermentation--beer is cloyingingly sweet before the yeast is added. > > The yeast digests all that sugar and secretes ethanol, that's the > > process of fermentation. If there is too much sugar added, the yeast > > cannot ferment all of it before it toxifies itself on it's own waste > > (the alcohol is toxic to yeast.) Or if there is something wrong with > > the fermentation that prevents the yeast frome completely fermenting > > the beer, there also will be left over sugar. > > Mmmm... not true. You made me go get my homebrewing manuals. > Depending on the mash temperature, you can get more or less > fermentable sugars. And I quote... "In general, the higher the mash > temperatures will produce dextrinous (heavy bodied beer) worts > in a very short, active period, while lower temperatures > produce more fermentable (lighter bodied, more alcoholic beer) > worts over a longer period." (Charlie Papazian). Hence it is > entirely possible within German beer law to produce a sweet > (yucky) beer. High temp mash with little grain + little hops = > 3% malta (ever had it?). That being said, I bet they simply added > some unfermentable sugars at bottling. > > Kurt A "milk stout" is one to which lactose has been added. Not especially sweet, but resists fermentation, and contributes a smoothness and richness to the finished product that borders on the sweet, depending on how much is used. Castle (South African) do a nice one, and I imagine there are a bunch of English breweries that produce one. You might also do anything your conscience allows once fermentation is complete, but home brewers typically bottle with live yeast still active, which puts a number of limits on. Dave Dave ------------------------------ From: "Walter Karmazyn" Subject: Re: Pigpen... Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 22:08:09 -0700 Steve Terry wrote in message ... >Maybe it's just me, but Pig's lengthy "raps" get rather boring pretty fast. >Thank god the band is cookin' behind him otherwise I'd be snoozin. Don't get >me wrong, I like his singing, Mr. Charlie, Hard to Handle, Easy Wind, for >example. It's just those mindless ramblings during Lovelight and Good Lovin > > You missed it, and the Memorex didn't help you catch it. From Bobby Petersen, about his friend Ron, something I post every year about the time he died...... (though the whole poem, not just this bit). shut my eyes & see him standing spread-legged on the stage of the world the boys prodding him egging him on he telling all he ever knew or cared to know mike hand cocked like a boxer's head throwed back stale whiskey blues many-peopled desolations neon rainy streets & wilderness of airports thousands maybe millions loved him were fired instantly into forty-five minutes of midnight hour. The boys prodding him egging him on...were fired instantly into forty-five minutes of midnight hour. Not to mention how many people just might've gotten laid (and in some cases with somebody they didn't know existed at the top of the evening) behind Mr. Pen's telling you it ain't so cool to be playing pocket pool so just get yer hands out of yer pockets and say hello to that sweetie next to ya... and there were those lines here to the women too...... But as somebody else said.... You really hadda be there. I guess. W ... ------------------------------ From: band beyond description <123@456.com> Subject: Re: Phil NYE in San Francisco Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 14:30:30 +0900 On 2005-10-10 08:49:08 +0900, "Steve Terry" said: > > "Dave Kelly" wrote in message: > >> * sure thing, Twinkle toes....just warn your friends about the mule... >> The last buncha wooks that were over here dint fare too well.... >> All we recovered were a dirty skirt & half a birkenstock..... > > Half a birkie...now that's funny. > >> Algebras droppings the next day revealed traces of butterfly wings.... >> AND he ended up with a nasty case of Hep C. >> THAT will teach me to invite String Cheese freaks back to da crib. >> Live & learn, I guess. > > String Cheese? From what bodily orifice? No matter, that ain't right. better than being under Dave Matthews' tour bus on the Chicago River run... -- Peace, Steve ------------------------------ From: Walter Karmazyn Subject: From Ron Paul...... Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 22:29:40 -0700 One of the few people in Congress I hold a bit of respect for, though I disagree with him a bit here and there...... October 8, 2005 Staying or Leaving by Rep. Ron Paul Supporters of the war in Iraq, as well as some non-supporters, warn of the dangers if we leave. But isn't it quite possible that these dangers are simply a consequence of having gone into Iraq in the first place, rather than a consequence of leaving? Isn't it possible that staying only makes the situation worse? If chaos results after our departure, it's because we occupied Iraq, not because we left. The original reasons for our preemptive strike are long forgotten, having been based on false assumptions. The justification given now is that we must persist in this war or else dishonor those who already have died or been wounded. We're also told civil strife likely will engulf all of Iraq. But what is the logic of perpetuating a flawed policy where more Americans die just because others have suffered? More Americans deaths cannot possibly help those who already have been injured or killed. Civil strife, if not civil war, already exists in Iraq – and despite the infighting, all factions oppose our occupation. The insistence on using our military to occupy and run Iraq provides convincing evidence to our detractors inside and outside Iraq that we have no intention of leaving. Building permanent military bases and a huge embassy confirms these fears. We deny the importance of oil and Israel's influence on our policy, yet we fail to convince the Arab/Muslim world that our intentions are purely humanitarian. In truth, our determined presence in Iraq actually increases the odds of regional chaos, inciting Iran and Syria while aiding Osama bin Laden in his recruiting efforts. Leaving Iraq would do the opposite – though not without some dangers that rightfully should be blamed on our unwise invasion rather than our exit. Many experts believe bin Laden welcomed our invasion and occupation of two Muslim countries. It bolsters his claim that the U.S. intended to occupy and control the Middle East all along. This has galvanized radical Muslim fundamentalists against us. Osama bin Laden's campaign surely would suffer if we left. We should remember that losing a war to China over control of North Korea ultimately did not enhance communism in China, as she now has accepted many capitalist principles. In fact, China today outproduces us in many ways – as reflected by our negative trade balance with her. We lost a war in Vietnam, and the domino theory that communism would spread throughout southeast Asia was proven wrong. Today, Vietnam accepts American investment dollars and technology. We maintain a trade relationship with Vietnam that the war never achieved. We contained the USSR and her thousands of nuclear warheads without military confrontation, leading to the collapse and disintegration of a powerful Soviet empire. Today we trade with Russia and her neighbors, as the market economy spreads throughout the world without the use of arms. We should heed the words of Ronald Reagan about his experience with a needless and mistaken military occupation of Lebanon. Sending troops into Lebanon seemed like a good idea in 1983, but in 1990 President Reagan said this in his memoirs: "…we did not appreciate fully enough the depth of the hatred and complexity of the problems that made the Middle East such a jungle…In the weeks immediately after the bombing, I believed the last thing we should do was turn tail and leave…yet, the irrationality of Middle Eastern politics forced us to rethink our policy there." During the occupation of Lebanon by American, French, and Israeli troops between 1982 and 1986, there were 41 suicide terrorist attacks in that country. One horrific attack killed 241 U.S. Marines. Yet once these foreign troops were removed, the suicide attacks literally stopped. Today we should once again rethink our policy in this region. It's amazing what ending military intervention in the affairs of others can achieve. Setting an example of how a free market economy works does wonders. We should have confidence in how well freedom works, rather than relying on blind faith in the use of military force to spread our message. Setting an example and using persuasion is always superior to military force in showing how others might live. Force and war are tools of authoritarians; they are never tools of champions of liberty and justice. Force and war inevitably lead to dangerous unintended consequences. ------------------------------ From: band beyond description <123@456.com> Subject: Re: Watchya Listenin' To Lately? Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 14:44:50 +0900 On 2005-10-10 06:06:27 +0900, Steve Lenier said: > a couple days ago I listened through Tommy (the album, not the soundtrack). > The songs are still in my head, I'm constantly amazed at how good it is, and > how much I love it. > > Yesterday I listened to all 4 vinyl sides of Stevie Wonder's Musiquarium. > > Derek and the Dominos Layla and other assorted love songs yesterday too > > currently in the stereo (but not actually currently playing) is the Dead > 9/5/85 Red Rocks, and in my car is 10/18/94 L.A. Sports Arena. > > caught a few seconds of Harry Belafonte on public TV last night > > and the only thing current that I've listened to lately, was yesterday's > ESPN broadcast of Iowa taking down Purdue handily. Woohoo! Go Hawks! > > Steve Listening to Master lay down the law on 5/19/01: http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=6003 and this cool GD rehearsal groovin' from 2/1/83: http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=15313 -- Peace, Steve ------------------------------ ** FOR YOUR REFERENCE ** The service addresses, to which questions about the list itself and requests to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, are as follows: Internet: dead-flames-request@gdead.berkeley.edu Bitnet: dead-flames-request%gdead.berkeley.edu@ucbcmsa Uucp: ...!{ucbvax,uunet}!gdead.berkeley.edu!dead-flames-request You can send mail to the entire list (and rec.music.gdead) via one of these addresses: Internet: dead-flames@gdead.berkeley.edu Bitnet: dead-flames%gdead.berkeley.edu@ucbcmsa Uucp: ...!{ucbvax,uunet}!gdead.berkeley.edu!dead-flames End of Dead-Flames Digest ****************************** .