From: Digestifier To: Subject: Dead-Flames Digest #373 Dead-Flames Digest #373, Volume #48 Thu, 22 Sep 05 11:00:01 PDT Contents: Re: Brave New World ("Everybody's Gonna Be Happy") Re: ndc-two subjects not to discuss with folks you like (jizzlobber@intergate.com) Re: ndc-two subjects not to discuss with folks you like (Sherry) Re: ndc-two subjects not to discuss with folks you like (Sherry) Re: ndc-two subjects not to discuss with folks you like ("Everybody's Gonna Be Happy") Re: ndc-just saw some lady on CNN, shes not evacuation galveston ("Richard Morris") Re: ndc-two subjects not to discuss with folks you like ("Everybody's Gonna Be Happy") Re: ndc-two subjects not to discuss with folks you like (jizzlobber@intergate.com) Re: ndc-two subjects not to discuss with folks you like (Sherry) Sweetbac on the street! ("Rogues Island's finest") Re: ndc-two subjects not to discuss with folks you like ("peggo") Re: ndc-just saw some lady on CNN, shes not evacuation galveston ("RickNBarbInSD") Re: Brave New World (Brad Greer) Re: 1972 ("Bill") Re: ndc-two subjects not to discuss with folks you like (Ken Fortenberry) Re: The REAL Disaster (NDC) (Sherry) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Everybody's Gonna Be Happy" Subject: Re: Brave New World Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:28:37 -0700 "Richard Morris" wrote in message news:WuCdnRf8Qpa4fa_eRVn- >> Part of the problem too is that suggesting a child might be "bored" in >> school is considered a major insult by teachers. > That has not been my observation. Your mileage obsviously varies, but I > would point out that you base your generalization on one anecdotal > situation that you describe below, and apply it to all teachers. Well, Brad could have used your hundreds of posts on the subject as another example......... Every time someone says that kids are bored in schools you go into some big explanation. Fact: some kids are bored in dull, unchallenging public schools. > K-12 schools in California are required to operate what are usually called > "student study teams". I think most states operate in a similar fashion. > Any time a student is evidencing adjustment or learning issues, the kid > can be referred for a study team review. The team consists usually of the > parent(s), kid (if old enough to participate meaningfully), at least one > teacher, and other folks as needed, which can include a school nurse for > doing a developmental history, psychologist for review or conducting > learning assessments, and so forth. > > The team typically looks at the presenting concern, and tries to develop > enough information about the student to see what might be done with > existing resources at the school to correct the concern. The overhwelming > majority of teachers that I have worked with are generally the first to > see the concern, and the first to bring the concern forward for review. > They understand that they are not being successful with the student, and > are looking for assistance. > > Does it work this way everywhere? Nope. Got that right. In Nevada they cram 40 kids (20 of them bored) into a classroom with one teacher. If a kid acts up he's either kicked out or told to go see a doctor so he can be drugged up. That's it. They don't have time for all that coddling. > Private schools and preschools can do whatever they want, up to and > including asking you to leave. There are more than a few bummer public > schools that don't do things the right way. Am I posting this out of > defensiveness, Toad? Nope ... trying to persuade Brad to ignore his > mother in law, who sounds like she is about 30 years behind the times, and > give him information so that he knows how to work the system. Because it > is a fair bet that similar issues may arise when the kid gets to public > school, and parents may need to weigh whether or not to accelerate him. Most teachers are very sensitive to criticism. EGBH ------------------------------ From: jizzlobber@intergate.com Subject: Re: ndc-two subjects not to discuss with folks you like Date: 22 Sep 2005 10:29:05 -0700 JC Martin wrote: > Sherry wrote: > > in article 9OhYe.732$9E2.422@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com, Stephen St. at > > stephen@nospam.net wrote on 9/21/05 14:40: > > > > > >>Their children and how they act > >> > >>Their spouses and how they act. > >> > >>Both subjects will eventually lead to someone getting pissed. > >> > >>IMHO.... :) > > > > > > YRYK. :) But I'm not so much pissed as frustrated with the lack of > > understanding. > > > Your own? Seriously, did you try taking your kid off sugar? Did you > set immovable boundaries and provide an intense structured environment? > Did you enroll him in some type of assertiveness training and/or seek > out one who specializes in cognitive therapy? If you didn't do all the > above, then you put your kid on medications which could hinder the > development of a growing child's brain. You also put tons of > carcinogens in yours kid's body. Your experience and your group's > experience is not the only experience or necessarily the best course to > take. The fact that you said brain scans are what's used to determine > ADHD/ADD shows how misinformed you are. Brain scans are highly > questionable in the scientific field. Questionnaires are in fact the #1 > diagnostic tool for diagnosing ADD, not brain scans. > > Nuff said. > > -JC Wow, brain scans huh? I wish it were only that easy. Here is my rather limited experience in my own quest to find answers. http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.attn-deficit/browse_thread/thread/f1cf11c6e0c2e57f/e42215ccd0a8406b?lnk=st&q=jizzlobber+add+adhd&rnum=1#e42215ccd0a8406b ------------------------------ Subject: Re: ndc-two subjects not to discuss with folks you like From: Sherry Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:30:46 GMT in article iAxYe.324$aB1.2582@eagle.america.net, Everybody's Gonna Be Happy at Davko58@crestviewcable.com wrote on 9/22/05 8:37: >>> I find people who don't want to argue about important topics and defend >>> their views on said topics to be rather dull. >>> >>> Everyone wants to avoid anything that disturbs their little world view or >>> their idea of what their world should be like. Like a rambunctious kid. > >> Your address, Toad? >> >> Obviously, I enjoy conversation, as I do many things in life. Like >> rambunctious kids. ;P > > But I'm a foot loose and fancy free unmarried man, with a house full of > eager young strippers, drugs galore, cases of Wild Turkey in the pantry, and > more porn than anyone should be entitled to possess. > > You don't want your boy to stay here.............. time with me would be > far worse for him than his medication. ;-) > > EGBH If I showed him this email (I won't, you can breathe now), he'd be on his way! I mean, he's 18 and despairing he'll be a virgin all his life. Your life sounds like JUST his cup of tea. Errr, Wild Turkey. Sherry in Vermont ------------------------------ Subject: Re: ndc-two subjects not to discuss with folks you like From: Sherry Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:32:46 GMT >> See Richard. There's that media thing again. It's in her head, not mine. > > JC, I think she is referring to how the original thread started, with > reference to media reports that there is an epidemic of drugging kids. Exactly. Sherry in Vermont ------------------------------ From: "Everybody's Gonna Be Happy" Subject: Re: ndc-two subjects not to discuss with folks you like Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:34:55 -0700 "Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message news:QaBYe.815$i31.612@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com... > It is more than just a little bit presumptuous for a > couple of Usenet know-it-alls to lecture a Mom about > her own child's medical history and when the Usenet > tag team is as contentious as you and Toad 'Scuse me, Mr. I Want To Buy Your Toddler For Sex. Sherry and I aren't at odds, we're discussing. I said I had no reason to believe she was anything but a good mother. > I'd say > Sherry is entitled to some umbrage. She lives in the > situation, all you do is sit behind a keyboard and > pontificate about how much more you know about the > situation than she does. If I were in her shoes I'd > take umbrage too. If you were in her shoes your feet would hurt and no mom would allow her kid to come close enough to you for you to know if you wanted to bop her 3 year old. Although one might still be within earshot of your wildly humorous moms with cancer jokes. EGBH ------------------------------ From: "Richard Morris" Subject: Re: ndc-just saw some lady on CNN, shes not evacuation galveston Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:36:52 -0700 "imsjry" wrote in message news:1127406276.018772.145080@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > > Stephen St. wrote: >> Talk about stupid and selfish. This 50 something lady was being asked if >> she >> was gonna evac, and she said no. She also said a lot of her friends arent >> gonna leave. When asked why(I yelled my answer for her- "because Im >> stoooooooopid"), she said that she and her friends didnt believe it was >> going to hit directly or very hard. >> >> I mean WTF? Not only is she stupid, but she went on TV to brag on her >> stupidity. People never, ever cease to amaze me. >> >> Question to left coasters...if somehow they could forcast a 8.0 magnatude >> quake was gonna hit near you, would you evacuate? > > > Why do you give a shit if people want to stay with their homes or not? > Are you sure she's "stupid"? > Because large amounts of public resources (translation: my tax dollars and yours) are required to rescue people who put themselves in danger like this. R. ------------------------------ From: "Everybody's Gonna Be Happy" Subject: Re: ndc-two subjects not to discuss with folks you like Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:36:53 -0700 "Sherry" wrote in message news:BF586287.55019%sherry13@together.net... > in article iAxYe.324$aB1.2582@eagle.america.net, Everybody's Gonna Be > Happy > at Davko58@crestviewcable.com wrote on 9/22/05 8:37: > >>>> I find people who don't want to argue about important topics and defend >>>> their views on said topics to be rather dull. >>>> >>>> Everyone wants to avoid anything that disturbs their little world view >>>> or >>>> their idea of what their world should be like. Like a rambunctious >>>> kid. >> >>> Your address, Toad? >>> >>> Obviously, I enjoy conversation, as I do many things in life. Like >>> rambunctious kids. ;P >> >> But I'm a foot loose and fancy free unmarried man, with a house full of >> eager young strippers, drugs galore, cases of Wild Turkey in the pantry, >> and >> more porn than anyone should be entitled to possess. >> >> You don't want your boy to stay here.............. time with me would be >> far worse for him than his medication. ;-) >> >> EGBH > If I showed him this email (I won't, you can breathe now), he'd be on his > way! I mean, he's 18 and despairing he'll be a virgin all his life. Your > life sounds like JUST his cup of tea. Errr, Wild Turkey. Ah yes, but I made it all up. EGBH ------------------------------ From: jizzlobber@intergate.com Subject: Re: ndc-two subjects not to discuss with folks you like Date: 22 Sep 2005 10:37:34 -0700 Stephen St. wrote: > Their children and how they act > Children aren't allowed at my place. Otherwise its irrelevent as long as they are kept out of my way. > Their spouses and how they act. > I don't have many married friends but don't really have a problem with anyone's spouse. > Both subjects will eventually lead to someone getting pissed. > > IMHO.... :) ------------------------------ Subject: Re: ndc-two subjects not to discuss with folks you like From: Sherry Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:38:25 GMT in article y4KdnTBSkfurf6_eRVn-rg@comcast.com, Richard Morris at jrmorris@trouserscomcast.net wrote on 9/22/05 12:56: >>>> I find people who don't want to argue about important topics and defend >>>> their views on said topics to be rather dull. >>>> >>>> Everyone wants to avoid anything that disturbs their little world view >>>> or >>>> their idea of what their world should be like. Like a rambunctious kid. >>>> >>>> EGBH >> >>> That's the whole point though. A kid isn't a 'topic', and someone >>> talking about the kid to the parent that way may raise a little anger. >> >> That's my whole point. Nothing wrong with a little anger. >> >> I'm not saying I go around criticizing parents to their faces, or enjoy >> blasting them on Usenet. But the topic of how best to raise kids is one >> that needs a lot more debate than it gets in this country. If sometimes >> some folks get angry, good. > > Now *that* is something I can definitely agree with ... in fact I would go > so far as to say the greatest problem kids face is not the over-use of > medications, it is the fact that their parents (if they have two) don't know > shit about child rearing, ignore the kids, are uninvolved, are letting the > kids raise themselves. The results are predictable and observable. I completely agree. It's why I am part of many specific lists and other parent support groups online and in real life. Life is about learning, to me. Currently one of my most interesting groups is one where adult interracial adoptees share their life experiences growing up in white America. I hope I never stop learning and growing. I think the best things parents can do is spend time with their kids. Sherry in Vermont ------------------------------ From: "Rogues Island's finest" Subject: Sweetbac on the street! Date: 22 Sep 2005 10:42:14 -0700 Dude's got game! (dig the little girl trying to join in the fun) http://www.hairofthedogviral.co.uk/ ------------------------------ From: "peggo" Subject: Re: ndc-two subjects not to discuss with folks you like Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:43:44 -0500 "Sherry" wrote in message news:BF586287.55019%sherry13@together.net... > in article iAxYe.324$aB1.2582@eagle.america.net, Everybody's Gonna Be > Happy > at Davko58@crestviewcable.com wrote on 9/22/05 8:37: > >>>> I find people who don't want to argue about important topics and defend >>>> their views on said topics to be rather dull. >>>> >>>> Everyone wants to avoid anything that disturbs their little world view >>>> or >>>> their idea of what their world should be like. Like a rambunctious >>>> kid. >> >>> Your address, Toad? >>> >>> Obviously, I enjoy conversation, as I do many things in life. Like >>> rambunctious kids. ;P >> >> But I'm a foot loose and fancy free unmarried man, with a house full of >> eager young strippers, drugs galore, cases of Wild Turkey in the pantry, >> and >> more porn than anyone should be entitled to possess. >> >> You don't want your boy to stay here.............. time with me would be >> far worse for him than his medication. ;-) >> >> EGBH > > If I showed him this email (I won't, you can breathe now), he'd be on his > way! I mean, he's 18 and despairing he'll be a virgin all his life. Your > life sounds like JUST his cup of tea. Errr, Wild Turkey. > > Sherry in Vermont > Okay. So is he aware that first you posted his medical information, and now you've posted that he's a virgin? Poor kid. He's a 'topic'. peggo ------------------------------ From: "RickNBarbInSD" Subject: Re: ndc-just saw some lady on CNN, shes not evacuation galveston Date: 22 Sep 2005 10:47:38 -0700 Jeff wrote: > Because my tax money is going to be used to hoist her dumb ass off her roof when the place > floods. > ~Jeff I gotta go with Jeff on this. They oughtta giv'er a florescent pink bathing cap she has to wear designating her as one who was properly warned and refused to evacuate, so later when the helicopters are flying overhead and spots her floundering in the flood and waving frantically for help, the pilot knows not to waste one second or one penny pickin' her brainless ass up and can go help someone else who has at least done their best and failed to get out vs deliberately putting themselves in danger needlessly. Rick ------------------------------ From: Brad Greer Subject: Re: Brave New World Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:53:52 -0400 On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:47:25 -0700, "Richard Morris" wrote: > >"Brad Greer" wrote in message >news:5pj5j1t1nh5k1n9monba7r5log4m8tiblh@4ax.com... >> On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 03:21:24 GMT, Tim Donohoe >> wrote: >> >>>Everybody's Gonna Be Happy wrote: >>>> >>>> It blows my mind that any parent would seriously consider drugging up >>>> their >>>> kid with some freaky chemical just because some nitwit doctor gets >>>> kickbacks >>>> from some giant drug conglomerate. >>>> >>> >>>THank god there was no ritalin when I was a kid. >>> >>>> Kids are naturally impatient and bouncy. Since most of them have no >>>> parents >>>> around to guide or raise them during most of their day, and since the >>>> schools they leave them at are often dull and incredibly boring, it >>>> shouldn't surprise anyone that kids get antsie. >>>> >>> >>>It seems to me that intelligent kids show signs of ADD more often than >>>average ones, even when the parent and teacher thinks they are >>>challenging them, the kids are still bored. Activities that involve a >>>physical and mental workout might calm the kids down a bit. >>> >> Part of the problem too is that suggesting a child might be "bored" in >> school is considered a major insult by teachers. > >That has not been my observation. Your mileage obsviously varies, but I >would point out that you base your generalization on one anecdotal situation >that you describe below, and apply it to all teachers. > >K-12 schools in California are required to operate what are usually called >"student study teams". I think most states operate in a similar fashion. >Any time a student is evidencing adjustment or learning issues, the kid can >be referred for a study team review. The team consists usually of the >parent(s), kid (if old enough to participate meaningfully), at least one >teacher, and other folks as needed, which can include a school nurse for >doing a developmental history, psychologist for review or conducting >learning assessments, and so forth. > >The team typically looks at the presenting concern, and tries to develop >enough information about the student to see what might be done with existing >resources at the school to correct the concern. The overhwelming majority >of teachers that I have worked with are generally the first to see the >concern, and the first to bring the concern forward for review. They >understand that they are not being successful with the student, and are >looking for assistance. > >Does it work this way everywhere? Nope. Private schools and preschools can >do whatever they want, up to and including asking you to leave. There are >more than a few bummer public schools that don't do things the right way. >Am I posting this out of defensiveness, Toad? Nope ... trying to persuade >Brad to ignore his mother in law, who sounds like she is about 30 years >behind the times, and give him information so that he knows how to work the >system. Because it is a fair bet that similar issues may arise when the kid >gets to public school, and parents may need to weigh whether or not to >accelerate him. > You didn't need to persuade me - I ignored my mother-in-law and told the center my son was bored. And it had no negative consequences. Of course, the way we approached the director of the day care probably factored in as well. We explained the behavior going on, we explained how we felt our son was at a different developmental stage then the other kids in his room and we explained we thought moving him to a room with kids at a similar level would help solve the behavior problem. We made it clear we didn't think the teacher had done anything wrong - she has to cope with six other kids in the classroom, the other kids weren't acting out because she had geared the daily activities to their level. Our son was just in the wrong room and group of kids. My mother-in-law retires from teaching at the end of this month - so saying she's "behind the times" is certainly a possibility. However, I think the issues she has with the word "bored" is a cultural thing. My sister-in-law, also a teacher in MA (and much younger), had major problems with the word "bored." Somewhere in the teacher meetings for MA teachers they must treat "bored" as a bad word that reflects negatively on the teacher. We never felt the teacher was to blame and made sure that nobody at the day care center thought we were blaming her. He still loves taking his weekly music session with the teacher from his old room and we've had her babysit since then. ------------------------------ From: "Bill" Subject: Re: 1972 Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:09:44 GMT "brew ziggins" wrote in message news:MPG.1d9c90802d2ac7ac9897e3@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu... > Thus spake hayman@nospam.duke.edu... > > OK, so I have always held that '72 was a tad overhyped because it was > > the first of the 3 "exploration" years, and so for people who were there > > (not me) it outshines '73 and '74, and in the recordings it has a > > certain something. I tend to argue that '74, and June, '74 in particular > > is the peak year for that era. > > 72-74 is the Himalaya's of GD History. Many, many peaks, and the valleys > you can find are still 15,000 feet above sea level. I think early '69 are also the Himalaya's of GD History. A lot of it had to do with the halls they were playing in (smaller halls in themselves added a different quality to their sound and it was definitely for the better) and the sound of Weir's guitar and Constanten (see my other post). > > But last night I was listening to a show in september of '72 (can't > > recall the exact date), and between the playin', the China-Rider, .... > > I just really think I need to get back to some '72 shows. > > Yes. Yes you do. Grab as much September, October and November as you > can. Then get ahold of a copy of that DVD with shns (or flacs?) of most > or all of the Euro '72 shows. Don't forget December, 1972, especially all the Winterland shows (Dec 10 - 12, and 31st). I haven't heard the 12th, but Dec 10, 11, and 31 are definite musthaves. Bill > > -- > bruce higgins ithaca ny > most of the day, we were at the machinery ------------------------------ From: Ken Fortenberry Subject: Re: ndc-two subjects not to discuss with folks you like Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:50:45 GMT Everybody's Gonna Be Happy wrote: > "Ken Fortenberry" wrote: >>It is more than just a little bit presumptuous for a >>couple of Usenet know-it-alls to lecture a Mom about >>her own child's medical history and when the Usenet >>tag team is as contentious as you and Toad > > 'Scuse me, Mr. ... Yo, Mr. Stick Up His Ass Usenet Know-It-All, I was talkin' to JC. > Sherry and I aren't at odds, we're discussing. I didn't say anyone was at odds with anyone else. I said you and JC are being contentious Usenet know-it-alls and Sherry has every reason to take umbrage at that. Not that she should or even would, just that if she did she'd have every right. -- Ken Fortenberry ------------------------------ Subject: Re: The REAL Disaster (NDC) From: Sherry Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:50:27 GMT in article 1127366026.847104.4610@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com, Carlisle at carrie-cox@insightbb.com wrote on 9/22/05 1:13: > > frndthdevl wrote: >> RickNBarbInSD wrote: >>> volkfolk wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Life is NEVER a level playing field. >>> >>>> Scot >>> >>> >>> The Way It Is >>> >>> Bruce Hornsby >> >> Tupac >>> >>> >>> Standing in line marking time, waiting for the welfare dime >>> 'Cause they can't buy a job >>> The man in the silk suit hurries by as he catches the poor ladies' eyes >>> Just for fun he says "get a job" >>> >>> >>> That's just the way it is >>> Some things will never change >>> That's just the way it is >>> Ah, but don't you believe them >> >> Come on come on >> I see no changes. Wake up in the morning and I ask myself, >> "Is life worth living? Should I blast myself?" >> I'm tired of bein' poor and even worse I'm black. >> My stomach hurts, so I'm lookin' for a purse to snatch. >> Cops give a damn about a negro? Pull the trigger, kill a nigga, he's a >> hero. >> Give the crack to the kids who the hell cares? One less hungry mouth on >> the welfare. >> First ship 'em dope & let 'em deal the brothers. >> Give 'em guns, step back, and watch 'em kill each other. >> "It's time to fight back", that's what Huey said. >> 2 shots in the dark now Huey's dead. >> I got love for my brother, but we can never go nowhere >> unless we share with each other. We gotta start makin' changes. >> Learn to see me as a brother 'stead of 2 distant strangers. >> And that's how it's supposed to be. >> How can the Devil take a brother if he's close to me? >> I'd love to go back to when we played as kids, >> but things change, and that's the way it is. >> >> >>> >>> They say hey little boy you can't go where the others go >>> 'Cause you don't look like they do >>> Said hey old man how can you stand to think that way >>> Did you really think about it before you made the rules >>> He said, Son >>> >>> >>> That's just the way it is >>> Some things will never change >>> That's just the way it is >>> Ah, but don't you believe them >> I see no changes. All I see is racist faces. >> Misplaced hate makes disgrace for races we under. >> I wonder what it takes to make this one better place... >> let's erase the wasted. >> Take the evil out the people, they'll be acting right. >> 'Cause mo' black than white is smokin' crack tonight. >> And only time we chill is when we kill each other. >> It takes skill to be real, time to heal each other. >> And although it seems heaven sent, >> we ain't ready to see a black President, uhh. >> It ain't a secret don't conceal the fact... >> the penitentiary's packed, and it's filled with blacks. >> But some things will never change. >> Try to show another way, but they stayin' in the dope game. >> Now tell me what's a mother to do? >> Bein' real don't appeal to the brother in you. >> You gotta operate the easy way. >> "I made a G today" But you made it in a sleazy way. >> Sellin' crack to the kids. "I gotta get paid," >> Well hey, well that's the way it is. >> >> >> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> Well they passed a law in '64 to give those who ain't got a little more >>> But it only goes so far >>> Because the law don't change another's mind when all it sees at the >>> hiring time >>> Is the line on the color bar >>> >>> >>> That's just the way it is >>> Some things will never change >>> That's just the way it is >>> Ah, but don't you believe them >> We gotta make a change... >> It's time for us as a people to start makin' some changes. >> Let's change the way we eat, let's change the way we live >> and let's change the way we treat each other. >> You see the old way wasn't working so it's on us to do >> what we gotta do, to survive. >> >> And still I see no changes. Can't a brother get a little peace? >> There's war on the streets & the war in the Middle East. >> Instead of war on poverty, >> they got a war on drugs so the police can bother me. >> And I ain't never did a crime I ain't have to do. >> But now I'm back with the facts givin' 'em back to you. >> Don't let 'em jack you up, back you up, crack you up and pimp smack you >> up. >> You gotta learn to hold ya own. >> They get jealous when they see ya with ya mobile phone. >> But tell the cops they can't touch this. >> I don't trust this, when they try to rush I bust this. >> That's the sound of my tune. You say it ain't cool, but mama didn't >> raise no fool. >> And as long as I stay black, I gotta stay strapped & I never get to lay >> back. >> 'Cause I always got to worry 'bout the pay backs. >> Some buck that I roughed up way back... comin' back after all these >> years. >> Rat-a-tat-tat-tat-tat. That's the way it is. uhh > > Funny. Funny? I think it's.... unbearably sad. Sherry in Vermont ------------------------------ ** FOR YOUR REFERENCE ** The service addresses, to which questions about the list itself and requests to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, are as follows: Internet: dead-flames-request@gdead.berkeley.edu Bitnet: dead-flames-request%gdead.berkeley.edu@ucbcmsa Uucp: ...!{ucbvax,uunet}!gdead.berkeley.edu!dead-flames-request You can send mail to the entire list (and rec.music.gdead) via one of these addresses: Internet: dead-flames@gdead.berkeley.edu Bitnet: dead-flames%gdead.berkeley.edu@ucbcmsa Uucp: ...!{ucbvax,uunet}!gdead.berkeley.edu!dead-flames End of Dead-Flames Digest ****************************** .