From: Digestifier To: Subject: Dead-Flames Digest #361 Dead-Flames Digest #361, Volume #48 Wed, 21 Sep 05 15:00:01 PDT Contents: Re: ndc-two subjects not to discuss with folks you like ("Stephen St.") Re: The Dubious Jimmy Page ("volkfolk") ndc-Katrina, Rita, Bush, Rove..its all a conspiracy. ("Stephen St.") Re: The Dubious Jimmy Page ("volkfolk") Re: NYC advise needed (CC,NDC) (Spider Dawg) Re: Brave New World ("Stephen St.") Re: Brave New World ("Richard Morris") Re: Brave New World ("Richard Morris") Re: Brave New World ("Richard Morris") Re: Brave New World ("Stephen St.") Re: What's It Like in Atlantic City? ("Dave Kelly") Re: Farewell, Farewell olde No. 7 ("Stuknot") Re: ndc-Katrina, Rita, Bush, Rove..its all a conspiracy. ("Ray") Re: JGB (polasus@my-deja.com) Re: ndc-two subjects not to discuss with folks you like (JC Martin) Re: Brave New World ("Richard Morris") Re: Farewell, Farewell olde No. 7 (Spider Dawg) Re: Brave New World ("Richard Morris") testing 1 2 3 ("scarletbgonias@hotmail.com") Re: testing 1 2 3 ("Dave Kelly") ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Stephen St." Subject: Re: ndc-two subjects not to discuss with folks you like Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 20:45:10 GMT "JC Martin" wrote in message news:%djYe.181$u8.2891@typhoon.sonic.net... > Dylanstubs wrote: >> Sort of like trying to explain why the Spring '77 tour doesn't do much >> for you. :) > > > But see, I'm with Toad. These conversations/debates can lead to a lot of > useful information if people are willing to let their guard down, take a > little heat and respectfully disagree. I know it's hard, but damn, I > learn most of the good stuff in life out of conflict. We don't all admit > it at the time, but these debates dip into a great well of life experience > and fill our cups if we're thirsty enough. > I agree that debate/discussion is a great thing. But here on usenet RMGD, there sure is a lot of name calling, etc going on in these so-called discussions. ------------------------------ From: "volkfolk" Subject: Re: The Dubious Jimmy Page Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 16:49:39 -0400 "ck" wrote in message news:_NOdnU2OOrAWVK3eRVn-rw@adelphia.com... > > "Bzl." wrote in message > news:3pbvoaF9muahU1@individual.net... >> >> "Dave Kelly" wrote in message >> news:Gy%Xe.683$Ur.351@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net... >> > Really good article about the head led carpetbagger >> > >> > http://www.furious.com/perfect/jimmypage.html >> > >> It is up to you, gentle reader, to assess whether Jimmy Page and Led >> Zeppelin deserve the prestige they have been accorded. Now, this may > appear >> to be nothing but gratuitous Page-bashing. Far from it. To this day, >> Jimmy >> Page is unacknowledged as one of the two the greatest psychedelic guitar >> players ever. The other one is not Jimi Hendrix, but rather the >> aforementioned Syd Barrett. Page's criminally underrated work with the >> Yardbirds and on countless sessions (take note of his hypnotic work on >> Donovan's "Sunshine Superman") reveal him to have set the standard for >> lysergic discord par excellence. >> >> Another ridiculous statement, even if it is complimentary of Page. I can >> think of at least one other "great" psychedelic guitar players. >> >> > > john cippolina??? lol......... Cippolina was a fucking monster. NOBODY sounded like him Scot ------------------------------ From: "Stephen St." Subject: ndc-Katrina, Rita, Bush, Rove..its all a conspiracy. Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 20:52:14 GMT Hows this one for ya? Bush and Co. saw Katrina coming and said "lets not respond in a timely manner", that will enrage everyone! Big deal, we arent up for re election. Then knew it was early in the hurricane season and figured another one would hit somewhere else, maybe Texas. So, now with Rita projected to hit Texas, everyone on the Texas coast is being evacuated en masse. Nobody in local or state govt in Texas is gonna be the next politician to get caught with their collective pants down. The governor of Texas is all over this one and will probably come out looking like a genius. He did good helping Katrina victims too. The conspiracy is that Bush and Co. planned this all along because.....wait for it..... They want to put the Governor of Texas, Rick Perry, on the Republican ticket for the '08 presidential election! ------------------------------ From: "volkfolk" Subject: Re: The Dubious Jimmy Page Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 16:50:03 -0400 "Bzl." wrote in message news:3pc0d3F9ebt9U1@individual.net... > > "ck" wrote in message > news:_NOdnU2OOrAWVK3eRVn-rw@adelphia.com... >> >> "Bzl." wrote in message >> news:3pbvoaF9muahU1@individual.net... >> > >> > "Dave Kelly" wrote in message >> > news:Gy%Xe.683$Ur.351@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net... >> > > Really good article about the head led carpetbagger >> > > >> > > http://www.furious.com/perfect/jimmypage.html >> > > >> > It is up to you, gentle reader, to assess whether Jimmy Page and Led >> > Zeppelin deserve the prestige they have been accorded. Now, this may >> appear >> > to be nothing but gratuitous Page-bashing. Far from it. To this day, > Jimmy >> > Page is unacknowledged as one of the two the greatest psychedelic >> > guitar >> > players ever. The other one is not Jimi Hendrix, but rather the >> > aforementioned Syd Barrett. Page's criminally underrated work with the >> > Yardbirds and on countless sessions (take note of his hypnotic work on >> > Donovan's "Sunshine Superman") reveal him to have set the standard for >> > lysergic discord par excellence. >> > >> > Another ridiculous statement, even if it is complimentary of Page. I > can >> > think of at least one other "great" psychedelic guitar players. >> > >> > >> >> john cippolina??? lol......... >> >> > > Actually, I was thinking of Warren Haynes *heh* Scot ------------------------------ From: Spider Dawg Subject: Re: NYC advise needed (CC,NDC) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 16:00:53 -0500 On 2005-09-21, kpnnews@yahoo.com wrote: > > Spider Dawg wrote: >> >> Thanks for all the info, these are exactly the types of tips I was >> hoping for that Orbitz won't tell me about. Another friend mentioned >> Subterranean Records in the Village. > > Allright folks let's start the recommendations: > > 1) Ollie's Noodle Shop - get some dumplings, some roast duck, and > a noodle soup with roast pork, mai fun, and wontons. > 2) d.b.a. is probably the best beer bar I have ever visited. They > have stuff from around the world that is brewed specifically > for this bar: http://www.drinkgoodstuff.com/ny/default.asp > 3) Museum of Modern Art: If you are into museums, and you want to > see a lot of the big paintings from Renoir, Van Gogh, etc, > you should check it out. A visit will take a while, but you > can limit it to the paintings. If you are into this type of > thing, MoMA is a must-visit. > 4) Katz's Deli (reference the "faking it" scene from When Harry > Met Sally - it was filmed here FWIW): Carnegie Deli is where > the tourists go, and it is good, but this place is more homey. > Frickin' Awesome, plus you can get the much discussed Cel-Ray. > http://www.katzdeli.com/ > > C'mon everyone, let's help a brother out. > > Kurt Here's my plans so far: Leaving home on foot with just a small backpack, taking public transportation (which sucks around here) to the Amtrak station in Detroit, then a thruway bus to Toledo, then the train to Penn Station. $132 round trip. Got a hotel resevation within a mile of MSG for $85/night, private sink and vanity. Scheduled to arrive Tuesday afternoon, seeing the Wednesday night show, then leaving Penn Station Thursday afternoon. I need tips on *cheap*, but good, places to eat. I'm blowing a lot of dough for a working class guy in a struggling industry. I bought a 6-pack of Cel-Ray this summer, I'm good on that for another 20 years ;) Ollie's sounds great, as does Katz's and Geno's. Chinatown even better. I can't imagine any pizza being better than Loui's right here in my 'hood, but while in New York...... bagels too. We have what is called New York Bagel in Ferndale, I gotta try the real McCoy and see how authentic this stuff is. I love beer. Too much. I'm staying away from bars/brewpubs right now. Not that I won't go in one, but I'm not seeking them out. Museums are cool, especially famous paintings, but with limited time I probably won't see many. I'm interested in some of the dorky tourist stuff too like the view from the ESB and a view of Lady Liberty. I'd like to see a show or something Tuesday night but about the only thing on Ticketmaster that looked interesting is an Islanders/Thrashers game. There's so much to see in the area that I'm not planning anything in particular, just start off on foot and see how far I get before it's time to get back. I wish Indian Larry was still around :( I've printed a map of the subway system. Wow. I wish we had something like that around here, all we have are lousy busses. I guess you can get from the airport to Manhattan easily, but I got a thing for trains ;) Plus the local train station is much closer than the airport. So, how about places to *stay away* from? Jim ------------------------------ From: "Stephen St." Subject: Re: Brave New World Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 20:54:40 GMT "Richard Morris" wrote in message news:OK6dndtqW6MUWKzeRVn-hA@comcast.com... > > "Stephen St." wrote in message > news:LFdYe.760$G64.463@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com... >> >> "Richard Morris" wrote in message >> news:MqmdnbaiRKQe-KzeRVn-gg@comcast.com... >> >>> >>> Sherry, where are you getting the information about the brain scan as a >>> diagnostic tool? >> >>> The most definitive diagnostic tool is the administration of Ritalin. >>> If it helps, one has ADD/ADHD. If not, not! >> >> I don't have kids, so excuse me for asking a goofy question..but... >> >> are you serious about how they diagnose the syndrome? Give the kid a few >> doses of ritalin and if they react a certain way, they have ADD? Wow, >> that seems a bit absurd to me. Im sure the pharma companies that make it >> love that idea, almost like a dealer giving out samples of smack-your >> bound to get a few people hooked. >> >> Sorry if I mis understood your post RM > > No ... that is not how they diagnose the student. > > What I am saying is that for most kids there does not seem to be a > definitive way to diagnose. It is not like a broken arm, where you do an > xray, or do a blood test which shows some bacteria, or something like > that. They can only infer that ADD is what it might be by doing a case > study. That is why I am very interested in Sherry's information! > > If the docs have ruled out other possible causes or explanations for the > behavior, and nothing else is working, they may try medication to see if > it is helpful. If it is helpful, then they see it as confirming the > diagnosis. But no, they don't just pop pills into kids mouths as a > diagnostic tool. > Thanks RM. I dont have kids and was freaking out .... Whew! Back to the dog and his assorted maladies...hehe BTW-my solution to hyper kids, while simplistic and half serious, is get them playing hockey... ------------------------------ From: "Richard Morris" Subject: Re: Brave New World Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:55:57 -0700 "The Iron Muffin" wrote in message news:H6-dnXltP8rK6KzeRVn-iw@comcast.com... > Everybody's Gonna Be Happy wrote: > > (re: ADHD) > >> What these antsie kids need is some time with their family >> and a lot of chores to do, followed by some good physical >> exercise in the fresh air, be it a sport or just the freedom to >> run around and climb trees. Challenges, responsibilities, >> and a place to run around. This is what kids are supposed >> to do, but since most kids today live in cramped cities or >> walled in suburbs they don't have the chance. Throw in >> hundreds of hours on the game machine and in front of the >> quick cutting television, and this is what we get. Raise them >> as kids and all of a sudden there is no such thing as ADD. >> There wasn't when I was a kid. This is an environemtally >> caused problem, its not in their genes. > > HRYK. > > What they now call "ADHD" used to be called > "an adventurous spirit and a curious mind". Well. Let me first say that I don't approve of drugging kids indiscriminately! On the other hand, if you have ever worked with a true ADD kid, then you would have to reconsider your comments above. We are not talking about squirrely kids with an abundance of energy here ... we are talking about kids who seem not to have the ability to discrimate amongst all the sense data coming in to them, and who appear not to have a linear, sequential, logical bone in their bodies. They are incredibly abstract and highly disorganized and sort of random. They are like that at school, and they are like that at home. They seem to have no sense of internal order, and need to have order and structure imposed externally to accomplish complex tasks. So far the research has not been able to find a cause, although the current thinking is there is some neurochemical thing going on. Who knows. I do think that there are squirrely kids with an abundance of energy who are not ADD, and some of those kids get misdiagnosed. Not all get medicated. R. ------------------------------ From: "Richard Morris" Subject: Re: Brave New World Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:59:21 -0700 "Sherry" wrote in message news:BF56F6FB.54D2C%sherry13@together.net... >> are you serious about how they diagnose the syndrome? Give the kid a few >> doses of ritalin and if they react a certain way, they have ADD? Wow, >> that >> seems a bit absurd to me. Im sure the pharma companies that make it love > > No, that's not how it was done for us or any other people we know. In our > cases, our kids were *off the wall*, 24/7, and especially if we had other > kids - we going crazy trying to keep our kids from hurting themselves and > others. When my son was not yet 2, he opened his bedroom window (which was > locked, but no lock has ever been able to stop him), climbed out on the > porch roof and was attempting to jump into the tree about 2 feet away from > the edge of the roof. I was in the house nursing Kaz (newborn) when I > thought I heard squirrels on the roof. We fed the squirrels regularly, so > I > went out with some bread and peanuts... and there was Tristan, right on > the > edge of the roof! That's one such episode - there were thousands. He has > NO > impulse control. He thinks it, he does it. NO thought. At ALL. I know it's > normal for 2-yr old to be like this, but Tristan's behavior was over the > top. And as he got older, it got worse - he was able to get into anything > and everything (SMART kid). Finally after he was kicked out of preschool > at > 3.4, we were given a 10-page sheet of questions with a scale of "never > occasionally often always" type thing, that we had to have everyone in > Tristan's life in any way, fill out. Based on those answers and 4 separate > 3-hour evaluations (2 in our home, 1 at preschool, 1 at the doc office), > we > decided to try the ritalin. > > Despite media claims, responsible parents do not just wish to "zombie" > their > kids into good behavior. We tried literally everything we could before > turning to drugs in desperation. I do not know any parents who just leaped > at the chance to drug their kids. > > Even my mother and sisters felt it was "me", and not really a real > problem... up until they took each one of the kids for a week in summer, > starting when they were 5, 2 and 1. When Tristan went to live with my > mother > for a year, her blinders really fell off. It's been my response to those > who > feel he would be different/better/not need drugs if only they and their > wonderful parenting skills were doing the job... to them, I say, when can > he > come to live with you? We'll start packing now. :) Yep. I have observed that with ADD there are matters of degree ... and it sounds like you have had an extreme case. The research does not connect it with parenting behaviors at all. R. ------------------------------ From: "Richard Morris" Subject: Re: Brave New World Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:03:52 -0700 "band beyond description" <123@456.com> wrote in message news:3pddk4F9rt28U2@individual.net... > > and of course I don't mean to disparage or minimize the impact of > individual, specific cases, such as Sherry's experience; I'm just speaking > to the wider U.S. phenomenon of debatable drugging/diagnosing of kids who > may not need what is being pushed on them by "experts." Yes ... except that what I see happening out there in the world is more like what Sherry describes than what you describe. Why it is happening is the question. I woder about environmental chemicals ... early exposure to media .... parenting habits ... but so far researchers have not been able to find a correlation. R. ------------------------------ From: "Stephen St." Subject: Re: Brave New World Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 21:03:53 GMT "Richard Morris" wrote in message news:8-OdnZmKKKt9VazeRVn-oQ@comcast.com... > > Well. Let me first say that I don't approve of drugging kids > indiscriminately! > > On the other hand, if you have ever worked with a true ADD kid, then you > would have to reconsider your comments above. > > We are not talking about squirrely kids with an abundance of energy here > ... we are talking about kids who seem not to have the ability to > discrimate amongst all the sense data coming in to them, and who appear > not to have a linear, sequential, logical bone in their bodies. They are > incredibly abstract and highly disorganized and sort of random. With all respect to your post and information... The last paragraph sounds like me at Hampton 5/1/81 ------------------------------ From: "Dave Kelly" Subject: Re: What's It Like in Atlantic City? Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 21:07:40 GMT "pookietooth" wrote in message news:1127321594.480525.243220@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com... > It's like Vegas except that it's dirty, has no natural beauty > surrounding it, it smells, there's medical waste on the beaches, people > will quicker stab you than say hi to you, it's a vortex of evil, and > it's in Jersey. Other than that it's the same. * I would be more worried about Chris Robinson fucking up the jams ------------------------------ From: "Stuknot" Subject: Re: Farewell, Farewell olde No. 7 Date: 21 Sep 2005 14:09:15 -0700 Dave Kelly wrote: > Who knows how many times I slipped in the back door without > paying the fare?.... John H. ------------------------------ From: "Ray" Subject: Re: ndc-Katrina, Rita, Bush, Rove..its all a conspiracy. Date: 21 Sep 2005 14:06:12 -0700 Stephen St. wrote: > Hows this one for ya? > > Bush and Co. saw Katrina coming and said "lets not respond in a timely > manner", that will enrage everyone! Exactly! http://www.workingforchange.com/comic.cfm?itemid=19635 ------------------------------ From: polasus@my-deja.com Subject: Re: JGB Date: 21 Sep 2005 14:11:52 -0700 Shouldn't that be Frau Koons? ------------------------------ From: JC Martin Subject: Re: ndc-two subjects not to discuss with folks you like Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 21:14:31 GMT Stephen St. wrote: > "JC Martin" wrote in message > news:%djYe.181$u8.2891@typhoon.sonic.net... > >>Dylanstubs wrote: >> >>>Sort of like trying to explain why the Spring '77 tour doesn't do much >>>for you. :) >> >> >>But see, I'm with Toad. These conversations/debates can lead to a lot of >>useful information if people are willing to let their guard down, take a >>little heat and respectfully disagree. I know it's hard, but damn, I >>learn most of the good stuff in life out of conflict. We don't all admit >>it at the time, but these debates dip into a great well of life experience >>and fill our cups if we're thirsty enough. >> > > > I agree that debate/discussion is a great thing. > > But here on usenet RMGD, there sure is a lot of name calling, etc going on > in these so-called discussions. Such is life. That's where I pointed out you have to be able take the heat and step to the plate. We all THINK we KNOW, but there's many of us who only have part of a given story. You have to willing to accept that your own experience isn't definitive in the big scheme of things. Personally, I try to avoid the name calling, but I'm not going to get too offended if it's directed towards me. Been there, done that. I'm a Usenet veteran. Peas. JC ------------------------------ From: "Richard Morris" Subject: Re: Brave New World Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:14:58 -0700 "Sherry" wrote in message news:BF5706B0.54D59%sherry13@together.net... >> The media??? *LOL* >> >> You startin' to sound like a Republican. You think you know. But you >> really don't. Pacifying a kid with medication is no miracle. > > Okay. Upon reading my posts and yours, JC, me actually *knowing* the > amount > of research I've done and continue to do, I can come to only one > conclusion: > you're an asshole. I have to support Sherry. Everything she has said is consistent and credible with respect to what I have also experienced with a pretty good sample of kids. With extreme cases, you try all the other stuff and it doesn't work. You modify the hell out of diet, classroom and home environment, parenting practices, and so forth, and nothing makes a difference. To second-guess with very limited data what Sherry has experienced, and on that basis to make accusations about her judgment and parenting is really, really unfortunate and disrespectful. R. ------------------------------ From: Spider Dawg Subject: Re: Farewell, Farewell olde No. 7 Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 16:17:44 -0500 On 2005-09-21, Stuknot wrote: > > Dave Kelly wrote: > >> Who knows how many times I slipped in the back door without >> paying the fare?.... > > > John H. IAAHSWYPII? ------------------------------ From: "Richard Morris" Subject: Re: Brave New World Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:17:18 -0700 "JC Martin" wrote in message news:cngYe.135$u8.2529@typhoon.sonic.net... > Sherry wrote: >>>Sad that you truly believe in only the pharmaceutical methods. There >>>are other theories and solutions just as workable out there. >> >> >> They did not work for my kid. Sorry you can't seem to understand there's >> not >> a one-size-fits-all approach. > > > I do understand that. Ritalin and any medication used on a child with > developing brains should be a last resort...after nutrition, structure, > boundaries, exercise, therapy, etc. If none of those solutions work and > the child still can't learn or process information, then drugs could be > necessary, and even in that case I'd be reluctant. > > >>There are degrees off ADD and ADHD - obviously >> yours was/is not as advanced/serious as my son's. > > > > Chill out for a sec Sherry. I'm not judging your parenting skills. I'm > just responding to what seems like a blanket defense of the pharmaceutical > industry, which puts out theoretical propaganda disguised as hard science. > It's all over the net. Beyond that, we know more today about mental > illness than ever before. Parents are learning that other methods do > indeed work. Come on JC ... this is what you said: "You startin' to sound like a Republican. You think you know. But you really don't. Pacifying a kid with medication is no miracle." If that ain't questioning her parenting skills, what is? R. ------------------------------ From: "scarletbgonias@hotmail.com" Subject: testing 1 2 3 Date: 21 Sep 2005 14:20:07 -0700 move along, nothing to see here. Testing out a new laptop to purchase. Theresa ------------------------------ From: "Dave Kelly" Subject: Re: testing 1 2 3 Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 21:21:54 GMT wrote in message news:1127337607.767269.101080@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com... > move along, nothing to see here. Testing out a new laptop to purchase. > > Theresa * Scarlet...what is the saleswoman wearing right about now? ------------------------------ ** FOR YOUR REFERENCE ** The service addresses, to which questions about the list itself and requests to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, are as follows: Internet: dead-flames-request@gdead.berkeley.edu Bitnet: dead-flames-request%gdead.berkeley.edu@ucbcmsa Uucp: ...!{ucbvax,uunet}!gdead.berkeley.edu!dead-flames-request You can send mail to the entire list (and rec.music.gdead) via one of these addresses: Internet: dead-flames@gdead.berkeley.edu Bitnet: dead-flames%gdead.berkeley.edu@ucbcmsa Uucp: ...!{ucbvax,uunet}!gdead.berkeley.edu!dead-flames End of Dead-Flames Digest ****************************** .