From: Digestifier To: Subject: Dead-Flames Digest #359 Dead-Flames Digest #359, Volume #48 Wed, 21 Sep 05 13:00:02 PDT Contents: Re: Rock and Roll HOF Nominees Announced ("walstib77") ndc-Gambians love their soccer ("Stephen St.") Re: Brave New World (JC Martin) Re: Rock and Roll HOF Nominees Announced ("walstib77") Re: Brave New World (JC Martin) Re: Brave New World (JC Martin) Re: Rock and Roll HOF Nominees Announced ("walstib77") Re: Brave New World ("Everybody's Gonna Be Happy") Re: NYC advise needed (CC,NDC) ("dyrewlf") Dutch reporter to use heroin, pot on TV (NDC) ("Dylanstubs") Re: Brave New World ("Everybody's Gonna Be Happy") Re: Brave New World ("Everybody's Gonna Be Happy") Re: Laurie Anderson??? ("RickNBarbInSD") Re: ndc-two subjects not to discuss with folks you like (JC Martin) Re: ndc-two subjects not to discuss with folks you like ("Everybody's Gonna Be Happy") Re: ndc-two subjects not to discuss with folks you like (JC Martin) Re: ndc-two subjects not to discuss with folks you like ("Everybody's Gonna Be Happy") Re: ndc-two subjects not to discuss with folks you like (Ken Fortenberry) Re: Brave New World (JC Martin) Re: Brave New World (kpnnews@yahoo.com) Re: ndc-two subjects not to discuss with folks you like (The Lord of Eltingville) Re: ndc-two subjects not to discuss with folks you like (JC Martin) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "walstib77" Subject: Re: Rock and Roll HOF Nominees Announced Date: 21 Sep 2005 11:56:55 -0700 Miles Davis Sex Pistols Lynyrd Skynyrd Black Sabbath Dave Clark Five When is/are Gram Parsons/Flying Burrito Bros. gonna get their due? They're worth a nomination, certainly, given their impact on the countrification of the genre and lookiing at some of the other nominees... ------------------------------ From: "Stephen St." Subject: ndc-Gambians love their soccer Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 19:10:21 GMT Check the name of the airline....lmao LIMA, Peru (AP) -- A chartered jet carrying 289 Gambian soccer fans pretended it needed to make an emergency landing so they could watch their team compete in the FIFA Under 17 World Championships, officials said Wednesday.The plane, claiming to be low on fuel, landed Tuesday near the stadium in Peru's northern coast city of Piura."It truly was a scam," said Betty Maldonado, a spokeswoman for Peru's aviation authority, CORPAC. "They tricked the control tower, saying they were low on fuel."Emergency crews were scrambled ahead of the unscheduled landing by the Lockhead L1011 Tri-Star, owned by Air Rum Ltd., Maldonado said.The Air Rum plane, which she said was chartered by Gambian President Yahya Jammeh, should have made its approach to the capital, Lima, but instead flew directly to Piura, entering Peruvian air space "without permission."The passengers were permitted to attend African team's 3-1 victory over Qatar on Tuesday night, she added, but the plane remained in Piura on Wednesday while authorities determined what penalty, if any, to levy against the airline. ------------------------------ From: JC Martin Subject: Re: Brave New World Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 19:04:30 GMT Roxanne McDaniel wrote: > "JC Martin" Hey Kurt, Hanna Boys Center (a Catholic boarding school here in Sonoma) > gave me the best education I ever had. I was there 3 plus years. They > set boundaries, had strict schedules to follow, lots of exercise, etc. > It's the place I learned how to manage myself. Unfortunately I didn't > learn many of those lessons until later in life. No, I'm not Catholic. > > ******************************** > So according to Toad logic, your parents didn't know how to > control you, but the school did. So your hyper-ness was > because you're parents didn't know how to do their job. Exactly. They really didn't. -JC ------------------------------ From: "walstib77" Subject: Re: Rock and Roll HOF Nominees Announced Date: 21 Sep 2005 12:03:42 -0700 Also--Dire Straights...? I bet Dan Healy agrees... ------------------------------ From: JC Martin Subject: Re: Brave New World Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 19:06:48 GMT Stephen St. wrote: > "JC Martin" wrote in message > news:DweYe.108$u8.2192@typhoon.sonic.net... > >>Stephen St. wrote: >> >>>"Richard Morris" wrote in message >>>news:MqmdnbaiRKQe-KzeRVn-gg@comcast.com... >>> >>> >>> >>>>Sherry, where are you getting the information about the brain scan as a >>>>diagnostic tool? >>> >>> >>>> The most definitive diagnostic tool is the administration of Ritalin. >>>>If it helps, one has ADD/ADHD. If not, not! >> >> >> >>There are no brain scans which determine that a kid has ADD or ADHD. Any >>scanning technology of this sort is merely in the realm of theory. There's >>no hard science backing it up. > > > Maybe Tom Cruise was right after all..... If Tom Cruise is ever right, it's for the wrong reasons. -JC ------------------------------ From: JC Martin Subject: Re: Brave New World Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 19:10:50 GMT Sherry wrote: >>I had an understanding once that the reason kids take drivers ed at 16, is >>because neurologically, the time is ripe. Exactly what you're describing >>about his driving abilities is typical stuff. He is putting perceptual >>vision >>together with gross motor. It takes a lot of coordination and >>concentration. >>And lots of practice! And it's all happening in the brain. >> >>Just like with any stage Sherry, we all go through it, just at our own >>speed. >> > > > Only, he's 18, and frustrated that all the kids who are over 16 he knows, > have their license. :( Makes him feel like the "hulking re-todd in the > corner"... made worse because he is intelligent. Maybe I hurt more for him > than he actually does. Dunno. Might be a mom thing. Try getting him off sugar. Try getting him to a therapist who specializes in time management and goal setting. Oh, I forgot, you know best. And I'm an asshole! ;-) But really, there's no reason he can't get his license at 18. I didn't pass the first two times. -JC ------------------------------ From: "walstib77" Subject: Re: Rock and Roll HOF Nominees Announced Date: 21 Sep 2005 12:08:15 -0700 Oh, and, how about Carol Kaye uder "Sidemen?" If Carol Kaye is not a Hall of Fame sider, who is? Besides, they need to mix the genders a tad. ------------------------------ From: "Everybody's Gonna Be Happy" Subject: Re: Brave New World Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 12:11:33 -0700 "Sherry" wrote in message news:BF5714EB.54D87%sherry13@together.net... >> The Bush administration actually proposed that all schoolkids be tested >> by >> shrinks for this phony ADD BS and then drugged appropriately. > Now that's sheer bullshit. Believe me, if a kid has ADHD serious enough to > need help, his parents are going to know already. Not sure if you mean I'm full of shit for claiming this is true or if you mean the proposal is bullshit. The article below doesn't mention Ritalin, probably because so many kids are already on it uneccessarily. Looks like a whole bunch may need to graduate to anti-depressants though. I'm sure you have done everything you could do in your situation. I'm sure you're a great mom, far better than most of the lazy slugs who drug up their kids so they don't annoy the dinner guests. But this situation, this idea, that every kid that doesn't conform to the norm is somehow mentally ill and needs drugging, is waaay out of control. It truly has become nothng more than a way to sell chemicals and make money. Here's the proposal, albeit with a viewpoint: Plans to screen whole US population for mental illness According to a recent article in the British Medical Journal, US president George Bush is to announce a major "mental health" initiative in this coming month of July. The proposal will extend screening and psychiatric medication to kids and grown-ups all over the US, following a pilot scheme of recommended medication practice developed in Texas and already exported to several other states. The Texas Medication Algorithm Project (TMAP) will serve, according to the President's New Freedom Commission on Mental Health, as a model for the upcoming initiative. The TMAP medication guidelines were established in 1995 as an "expert consensus" based on the opinions of prescribers, rather than an analysis of scientific studies. The pharmaceutical companies who funded the scheme include Janssen Pharmaceutica, Johnson & Johnson, Eli Lilly, Astrazeneca, Pfizer, Novartis, Janssen-Ortho-McNeil, GlaxoSmithKline, Abbott, Bristol Myers Squibb, Wyeth-Ayerst and Forrest Laboratories. The drugs recommended as "first line treatment", many of them with potentially deadly side effects, are patented expensive drugs produced by the sponsors of the guidelines: Risperdal, Zyprexa, Seroqual, Geodone, Depakote, Paxil, Zoloft, Celexa, Wellbutron, Zyban, Remeron, Serzone, Effexor, Buspar, Adderall and Prozac. TMAP was extended to cover children, again by "expert consensus", and no doubt the Bush program for widespread testing in schools all over the US will find hundreds of thousands if not millions of new "customers" for the dangerous psychiatric drugs the scheme promotes. A recent article in the New York Times about "the use of juvenile detention facilities to warehouse children with mental disorders" might give us an idea of how many future patients are already waiting in the sidelines. But more importantly it shows that the problem that fits the TMAP solution is now being promoted by the media - go figure. A similar "patient recruitment" move for psychiatry is the re-definition of environmental illness - a debilitating condition with varying symptoms due to environmental causes such as chemical poisons and electromagnetic pollution - as a purely psychological phenomenon. "It's all in your head, stupid!" seems to be the rationale. Diana Buckland, the Brisbane representative of the Australian Chemical Trauma Alliance calls for world wide submissions in a Global Recognition Campaign for sufferers of multiple chemical sensitivity or chemically induced illnesses. Investigative author Martin Walker in his most recent book SKEWED, discusses how the recognition of biological causes of a whole variety of environmentally induced illnesses has been blocked by a small interest group of "experts" linked to the polluters - the multinational agro-petro-chemical industries. Those suffering from the debilitating effects of environmental illnesses are told that they are just imagining their symptoms and all they need is psychiatric help, perhaps some forced exercise, called "graded exercise therapy", re-education of "how to deal with" their illness, psychological counselling or maybe just antidepressants - for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Bush's Texas Medication Algorithm Project has recently run into a problem in Pennsylvania, one of several states it was exported to. Allen Jones, an investigator for the Pennsylvania Office of the Inspector General, found heavy pharmaceutical corruption of State officials and medical experts involved in the original elaboration and the "selling" to Pennsylvania of the TMAP giudelines. Instead of receiving a citation and help in his investigation, Jones was told to shut up and look the other way. After he went to the press with his findings, Jones was escorted out of his workplace on 28 April 2004 and told not to come back. On 7 May, Jones filed a whistleblower suit against his superiors charging that the Office of the Inspector General's policy of barring employees from talking with the media is unconstitutional. Jones' report is highly interesting - no wonder he is being told to shut up. I have summarised the document and linked it here following: ------------------------------ From: "dyrewlf" Subject: Re: NYC advise needed (CC,NDC) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 17:59:56 GMT wrote in message news:1127316321.017183.156410@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > > Spider Dawg wrote: >> >> Thanks for all the info, these are exactly the types of tips I was >> hoping for that Orbitz won't tell me about. Another friend mentioned >> Subterranean Records in the Village. > > Allright folks let's start the recommendations: > > 1) Ollie's Noodle Shop - get some dumplings, some roast duck, and > a noodle soup with roast pork, mai fun, and wontons. > 2) d.b.a. is probably the best beer bar I have ever visited. They > have stuff from around the world that is brewed specifically > for this bar: http://www.drinkgoodstuff.com/ny/default.asp Don't know about that one, but the Peculier Pub on Bleeker in the village has the most extensive beer menu I have ever seen somewhere around 500 types from all over the world. Steve ------------------------------ From: "Dylanstubs" Subject: Dutch reporter to use heroin, pot on TV (NDC) Date: 21 Sep 2005 12:13:41 -0700 now here's a reality show i can get behind! http://www.boston.com/news/odd/articles/2005/09/21/dutch_reporter_to_use_heroin_pot_on_tv/ By Toby Sterling, Associated Press Writer | September 21, 2005 AMSTERDAM, Netherlands --A field reporter for a new Dutch television talk show plans to use heroin and other illegal drugs on the air during the weekly program on issues that concern young people, producers said Wednesday. The announcement of "Shoot Up and Swallow," scheduled to premiere as a late-night show Oct. 10, sparked an outcry. Even in the liberal Netherlands, where marijuana is sold and used openly, the proposed drug use by reporter Filemon Wesselink is illegal. "This is dangerous and it sets a bad example," said Pieter Heerma, spokesman for the governing center-right Christian Democrat party. "We're going to ask the justice minister for his view on what the law says about this, and his view on the dangers and risks involved." Justice Ministry spokesman Ivo Hommes said it was not immediately clear whether Wesselink could be prosecuted. Possession of any amount of heroin is illegal, but in practice police usually do not arrest anyone with less than a half gram of the highly addictive narcotic. "The actual taking of drugs is a health problem, not a criminal act, though it's obviously hard to take drugs without possessing them first," Hommes said. "In any case, it's not something we endorse, and doing it on television is undesirable." The show's in-studio host, Sophie Hilbrand, will interview guests about drug use and abuse, while Wesselink appears in segments taped in the field as he experiments with drugs and liquor. Another reporter, Ties Van Westing, will do segments about engaging in sex acts, but not on camera. For one episode, Wesselink, 26, plans to smoke heroin, said Ingrid Timmer, spokeswoman for the show's producer, BNN. For others, he plans to go on a drinking binge in a series of pubs and to take the hallucinogenic drug LSD -- on his couch under the supervision of his mother. "It's not our intention to create an outcry. We just want to talk about subjects that are part of young people's lives," Timmer said. The Netherlands is known for its lenient marijuana policy, under which the sale and use of the drug in small quantities are not prosecuted even though technically illegal. Other drugs, including heroin, LSD, cocaine and Ecstasy, are outlawed, and dealers are prosecuted. The legal age for consumption of alcohol and tobacco is 16. According to the Trimbos Institute, a Dutch group that monitors international drug use, the Dutch are about average among industrial nations. It says 6 percent of Dutch have used marijuana recently, compared with 8 percent in the United States, 8 percent in Britain and 9 percent in France. For cocaine, it was 1.1 percent in Holland -- and rising quickly -- compared to 1.3 percent in the United States, 1.5. percent in Britain and 0.3 percent in France. Comparable data for heroin were not available. BNN has drawn viewer complaints for previous shows, including one that included a segment on how to have sex in a nightclub. ------------------------------ From: "Everybody's Gonna Be Happy" Subject: Re: Brave New World Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 12:16:06 -0700 "Roxanne McDaniel" wrote in message news:ekhYe.530$4u4.409@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com... > > "JC Martin" Hey Kurt, Hanna Boys Center (a Catholic boarding school here in Sonoma) > gave me the best education I ever had. I was there 3 plus years. They > set boundaries, had strict schedules to follow, lots of exercise, etc. > It's the place I learned how to manage myself. Unfortunately I didn't > learn many of those lessons until later in life. No, I'm not Catholic. > > ******************************** > So according to Toad logic, your parents didn't know how to > control you, but the school did. So your hyper-ness was > because you're parents didn't know how to do their job. Yeah, that pretty much sums it up. Considering that he grew up in a cult (not a revelation, he's posted about it here several times), I think its a safe assumption. EGBH ------------------------------ From: "Everybody's Gonna Be Happy" Subject: Re: Brave New World Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 12:18:03 -0700 "Stephen St." wrote in message news:dIhYe.729$9E2.14@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com... > > "Everybody's Gonna Be Happy" wrote in message > news:pceYe.268$aB1.2759@eagle.america.net... > >> >> >> It blows my mind that any parent would seriously consider drugging up >> their kid with some freaky chemical just because some nitwit doctor gets >> kickbacks from some giant drug conglomerate. >> > Yeah, Im drugged myself up just because some guy named jerry played some > great tunes. But the only people profiting are old Cody up in the woods and a guy named Owsley. Their lobby is significantly less powerful than that of the major pharmaceutical companies. EGBH ------------------------------ From: "RickNBarbInSD" Subject: Re: Laurie Anderson??? Date: 21 Sep 2005 12:14:11 -0700 Dave Kelly wrote: > * Absolutely NOT. > unless you crave an utterly pretentious ego fueled > self congradulating pseudo downtown homosexual > mafia driven evening of tortuous slide show psycho > babble......is THAT what you consider entertainment? > You DISGUST me, sir. So, that would be a no then?? ------------------------------ From: JC Martin Subject: Re: ndc-two subjects not to discuss with folks you like Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 19:22:17 GMT Sherry wrote: > in article 9OhYe.732$9E2.422@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com, Stephen St. at > stephen@nospam.net wrote on 9/21/05 14:40: > > >>Their children and how they act >> >>Their spouses and how they act. >> >>Both subjects will eventually lead to someone getting pissed. >> >>IMHO.... :) > > > YRYK. :) But I'm not so much pissed as frustrated with the lack of > understanding. Your own? Seriously, did you try taking your kid off sugar? Did you set immovable boundaries and provide an intense structured environment? Did you enroll him in some type of assertiveness training and/or seek out one who specializes in cognitive therapy? If you didn't do all the above, then you put your kid on medications which could hinder the development of a growing child's brain. You also put tons of carcinogens in yours kid's body. Your experience and your group's experience is not the only experience or necessarily the best course to take. The fact that you said brain scans are what's used to determine ADHD/ADD shows how misinformed you are. Brain scans are highly questionable in the scientific field. Questionnaires are in fact the #1 diagnostic tool for diagnosing ADD, not brain scans. Nuff said. -JC ------------------------------ From: "Everybody's Gonna Be Happy" Subject: Re: ndc-two subjects not to discuss with folks you like Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 12:21:11 -0700 "Stephen St." wrote in message news:9OhYe.732$9E2.422@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com... > Their children and how they act > > Their spouses and how they act. > > Both subjects will eventually lead to someone getting pissed. > > IMHO.... :) Dunno 'bout you, but I learn more when there is back and forth conflict. Nothing wrong with getting pissed either. Its all part of life. Maybe there's a pill you could take if it disturbs you. EGBH ------------------------------ From: JC Martin Subject: Re: ndc-two subjects not to discuss with folks you like Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 19:23:29 GMT Everybody's Gonna Be Happy wrote: > "Stephen St." wrote in message > news:9OhYe.732$9E2.422@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com... > >>Their children and how they act >> >>Their spouses and how they act. >> >>Both subjects will eventually lead to someone getting pissed. >> >>IMHO.... :) > > > Dunno 'bout you, but I learn more when there is back and forth conflict. > > Nothing wrong with getting pissed either. Its all part of life. > > Maybe there's a pill you could take if it disturbs you. LOL -JC ------------------------------ From: "Everybody's Gonna Be Happy" Subject: Re: ndc-two subjects not to discuss with folks you like Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 12:24:27 -0700 wrote in message news:1127327414.785499.200860@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > > Stephen St. wrote: >> Their children and how they act >> >> Their spouses and how they act. > > I would add religion to the list. We were hanging out with > two friends this year when I opined on God answering prayers. > My views did not jive at all with my friends wife. Subject > would have been better left undiscussed. Politics can also > be sketchy. I hate to say it, but education is the key with > politics. The undereducated always spout the party lines and > can never deviate from that (on both sides). I have had very > good discussions with very liberal friends. We may have > disagreed but we were able to see each others points. I > have a liberal friend (from Chapel Hill no less) who used to > spout the latest out-there rants against GWB and believe > them. You know the charges snopes discredits in a couple of > sentences. > > Kurt I find people who don't want to argue about important topics and defend their views on said topics to be rather dull. Everyone wants to avoid anything that disturbs their little world view or their idea of what their world should be like. Like a rambunctious kid. EGBH ------------------------------ From: Ken Fortenberry Subject: Re: ndc-two subjects not to discuss with folks you like Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 19:28:16 GMT JC Martin wrote: > Sherry wrote: > >> in article 9OhYe.732$9E2.422@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com, Stephen St. at >> stephen@nospam.net wrote on 9/21/05 14:40: >> >> >>> Their children and how they act >>> >>> Their spouses and how they act. >>> >>> Both subjects will eventually lead to someone getting pissed. >>> >>> IMHO.... :) >> >> >> >> YRYK. :) But I'm not so much pissed as frustrated with the lack of >> understanding. > > > > Your own? Seriously, did you try taking your kid off sugar? ... You know JC, you are *WAY* out of line here. When a mother shares information about her child with friends she shouldn't be subjected to lectures from armchair "experts". Even if you do know something about the subject and even if you knew the child personally, the polite thing to do is trust the mother's judgment. And STFU, don't forget STFU. -- Ken Fortenberry ------------------------------ From: JC Martin Subject: Re: Brave New World Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 19:29:13 GMT Everybody's Gonna Be Happy wrote: > "Roxanne McDaniel" wrote in message > news:ekhYe.530$4u4.409@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com... > >>"JC Martin" >Hey Kurt, Hanna Boys Center (a Catholic boarding school here in Sonoma) >>gave me the best education I ever had. I was there 3 plus years. They >>set boundaries, had strict schedules to follow, lots of exercise, etc. >>It's the place I learned how to manage myself. Unfortunately I didn't >>learn many of those lessons until later in life. No, I'm not Catholic. >> >>******************************** > > >>So according to Toad logic, your parents didn't know how to >>control you, but the school did. So your hyper-ness was >>because you're parents didn't know how to do their job. > > > Yeah, that pretty much sums it up. > > Considering that he grew up in a cult (not a revelation, he's posted about > it here several times), I think its a safe assumption. BTW, I have a good relationship with my parents today. Given that I was the type to stew and hold grudges early in life, forgiving my parents and moving on has had an immense therapeutic effect on my life, and also how much slack I cut for myself and others. But yeah, I can still be an asshole. But that's only one side of me. ;-) Peas, -JC ------------------------------ From: kpnnews@yahoo.com Subject: Re: Brave New World Date: 21 Sep 2005 12:33:51 -0700 JC Martin wrote: > No, I'm not Catholic. Neither am I; in fact, I consider myself the anti-Catholic. Don't get me started. However, those Brothers get all my respect for what they did and do. Mine wasn't a boarding school. It was where challenging kids went. Kurt ------------------------------ From: The Lord of Eltingville Subject: Re: ndc-two subjects not to discuss with folks you like Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:14:31 -0400 "Stephen St." wrote: > > Their children and how they act My friends know that I don't particularly like kids (my neices being the exception), so they make sure to remind their own kids about manners before bringing them over to my place. > Their spouses and how they act. Thankfully, all but one of my friends have made good choices when it comes to spouses, so it's never an issue. We all get along and have a great time together. The one exception is someone I've been friends with since we were kids, and he understands why I can't stand his wife. He also realizes that none of his other friends (or even his family) can put up with her for too long. > Both subjects will eventually lead to someone getting pissed. As will religion and politics... > IMHO.... :) ------------------------------ From: JC Martin Subject: Re: ndc-two subjects not to discuss with folks you like Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 19:36:54 GMT Ken Fortenberry wrote: > JC Martin wrote: > >> Sherry wrote: >> >>> in article 9OhYe.732$9E2.422@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com, Stephen St. at >>> stephen@nospam.net wrote on 9/21/05 14:40: >>> >>> >>>> Their children and how they act >>>> >>>> Their spouses and how they act. >>>> >>>> Both subjects will eventually lead to someone getting pissed. >>>> >>>> IMHO.... :) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> YRYK. :) But I'm not so much pissed as frustrated with the lack of >>> understanding. >> >> >> >> >> Your own? Seriously, did you try taking your kid off sugar? ... > > > > You know JC, you are *WAY* out of line here. When a mother > shares information about her child with friends she shouldn't > be subjected to lectures from armchair "experts". Ummm...she started the lecture. I have a completely different view and she made the assumption that those with differing view merely got those views from the media. Sorry, I crossed no line. Just tellin' it like it should be told. I have no idea whether she tried other legitimate methods first because she refuses to disclose what she tried before putting her kid on meds. Unless I know for sure, I'm not gonna take her word for it. If you have an opinion which you present as scientific fact, you better have the goods to back it up and or at least be able to stand the heat for it. >Even if you > do know something about the subject and even if you knew the > child personally, the polite thing to do is trust the mother's > judgment. Seriously, I wanted to do that and I did, but you know, my ADD kicked as soon as she got smart with me. :-) Trying to insinuate that I don't know what "comprehension" means and that all my viewpoints are media inspired doesn't sit too well. If you want to act like your life experience is superior to everyone else's, step to the plate. Just because she put her kid on meds and has a support group doesn't make her views ivory tower material. Peas, JC ------------------------------ ** FOR YOUR REFERENCE ** The service addresses, to which questions about the list itself and requests to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, are as follows: Internet: dead-flames-request@gdead.berkeley.edu Bitnet: dead-flames-request%gdead.berkeley.edu@ucbcmsa Uucp: ...!{ucbvax,uunet}!gdead.berkeley.edu!dead-flames-request You can send mail to the entire list (and rec.music.gdead) via one of these addresses: Internet: dead-flames@gdead.berkeley.edu Bitnet: dead-flames%gdead.berkeley.edu@ucbcmsa Uucp: ...!{ucbvax,uunet}!gdead.berkeley.edu!dead-flames End of Dead-Flames Digest ****************************** .