From: Digestifier To: Subject: Dead-Flames Digest #358 Dead-Flames Digest #358, Volume #48 Wed, 21 Sep 05 12:00:02 PDT Contents: Re: heiney!!! ("RickNBarbInSD") Re: Brave New World (Sherry) Re: Brave New World (Sherry) Re: Brave New World ("Roxanne McDaniel") Re: rock star (ndc) ("pookietooth") Re: Brave New World (JC Martin) Re: Brave New World (Sherry) Re: Brave New World ("Roxanne McDaniel") Re: Rock and Roll HOF Nominees Announced ("neurodancer") Re: Brave New World ("Roxanne McDaniel") Re: heiney!!! ("scarletbgonias@hotmail.com") Re: Brave New World (Sherry) Re: Brave New World ("Stephen St.") Re: Brave New World ("Stephen St.") Re: heiney!!! ("RickNBarbInSD") ss with folks you like ("neurodancer") Re: What are all those tracks for? ("pookietooth") Re: Brave New World (Ken Fortenberry) Re: Brave New World (Brad Greer) Re: Brave New World ("Stephen St.") Re: Brave New World ("Stephen St.") Re: HERE is your REVIEW of From the Big Apple to the Big Easy at Radio City ("neurodancer") Re: Brave New World (Sherry) Re: What's It Like in Atlantic City? ("Stephen St.") Re: What's It Like in Atlantic City? ("walstib77") Re: ndc-two subjects not to discuss with folks you like ("Stephen St.") Re: ndc-two subjects not to discuss with folks you like ("Stephen St.") ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Stephen St." Subject: ndc-two subjects not to discuss with folks you like Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 18:40:05 GMT Their children and how they act Their spouses and how they act. Both subjects will eventually lead to someone getting pissed. IMHO.... :) ------------------------------ From: "Roxanne McDaniel" Subject: Re: Brave New World Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 18:25:17 GMT "Sherry" > wrote in message My Tristan is having a hell of time getting his license. He's been driving with a permit for 5 months now, and he drives fine. For a while he did the usual things new drivers do - hit the brake a little hard, take corners a little wide/short, go too slow... but the past 3 weeks especially (since he got his own car) he's been driving really well. He drives all of us everywhere in his car, all the time. (Except Andre, who drives his own self to work and back.) His driving no longer makes me at all nervous. He drives fine in the dark, on the highway, rural dirt roads, in traffic. Yet, he gets so bombarded by so many different things during the test - and the guy is really nice, and as Tristan says, fair - that he does things he does not normally do. Like drive thru a stop sign - automatic failure. :( Last time he nearly scraped another car taking a corner far too wide. His attention is so distracted from *the guy* giving the test, that it's preventing him from concentrating on driving. And that is *with* the meds he takes. This is really frustrating for him. He can't "clown" his way out of it, and all it seems he can do is keep taking it until he is relaxed enough to pay attention to the road while the test guy is in the car. Thankfully it's only $5 a pop to retake the test, but you have to wait a week in between. I have him drive new routes all over to familiarize him as much as possible with the roads in the town the DMV is in... anyone have any other ideas that might help him? He has to have someone over 25 in the front seat in order to drive with his permit. Sherry in Vermont ************************************************ I had an understanding once that the reason kids take drivers ed at 16, is because neurologically, the time is ripe. Exactly what you're describing about his driving abilities is typical stuff. He is putting perceptual vision together with gross motor. It takes a lot of coordination and concentration. And lots of practice! And it's all happening in the brain. Just like with any stage Sherry, we all go through it, just at our own speed. ------------------------------ From: "Stephen St." Subject: Re: Brave New World Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 18:43:37 GMT "JC Martin" wrote in message news:a8hYe.157$u8.2627@typhoon.sonic.net... > Sherry wrote: >>>Or, and I hate to say it, it may be that Sherry didn't attempt to try >>>other methods first, like taking her kid off of sugar, setting >>>boundaries, scheduling, exercise, etc. It's okay to have not known >>>about other options way back when, but it's a sin of the highest order >>>to push drugs on other children just because your kid is on the stuff >>>when there are other methods out there that actually work. >> >> >> Please try reading for comprehension, JC. That means "to understand what >> is >> written." Thanks. > > > Well, since you're gonna be a smart-ass, why don't tell us what methods > you used Ms. Know-It-All? Forget my last concession. > > -JC Can you take back a concession on usenet? Since this is the first one Ive seen, its an unknow... ------------------------------ Subject: Re: ndc-two subjects not to discuss with folks you like From: Sherry Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 18:26:22 GMT in article 9OhYe.732$9E2.422@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com, Stephen St. at stephen@nospam.net wrote on 9/21/05 14:40: > Their children and how they act > > Their spouses and how they act. > > Both subjects will eventually lead to someone getting pissed. > > IMHO.... :) YRYK. :) But I'm not so much pissed as frustrated with the lack of understanding. Sherry in Vermont ------------------------------ From: "scarletbgonias@hotmail.com" Subject: Re: ndc-two subjects not to discuss with folks you like Date: 21 Sep 2005 11:27:54 -0700 I've also noticed that these two cause problems as well: - Their views on repubican vs. democrat - Their religious beliefs Theresa ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Brave New World From: Sherry Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 18:28:55 GMT > I had an understanding once that the reason kids take drivers ed at 16, is > because neurologically, the time is ripe. Exactly what you're describing > about his driving abilities is typical stuff. He is putting perceptual > vision > together with gross motor. It takes a lot of coordination and > concentration. > And lots of practice! And it's all happening in the brain. > > Just like with any stage Sherry, we all go through it, just at our own > speed. > Only, he's 18, and frustrated that all the kids who are over 16 he knows, have their license. :( Makes him feel like the "hulking re-todd in the corner"... made worse because he is intelligent. Maybe I hurt more for him than he actually does. Dunno. Might be a mom thing. Thanks, though. :) Sherry in Vermont ------------------------------ From: "Stephen St." Subject: Re: Brave New World Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 18:45:14 GMT "JC Martin" wrote in message news:DweYe.108$u8.2192@typhoon.sonic.net... > Stephen St. wrote: >> "Richard Morris" wrote in message >> news:MqmdnbaiRKQe-KzeRVn-gg@comcast.com... >> >> >>>Sherry, where are you getting the information about the brain scan as a >>>diagnostic tool? >> >> >>> The most definitive diagnostic tool is the administration of Ritalin. >>> If it helps, one has ADD/ADHD. If not, not! > > > > There are no brain scans which determine that a kid has ADD or ADHD. Any > scanning technology of this sort is merely in the realm of theory. There's > no hard science backing it up. Maybe Tom Cruise was right after all..... ------------------------------ From: "bongo" Subject: Re: NYC advise needed (CC,NDC) Date: 21 Sep 2005 11:31:58 -0700 Highly recommend a Thai restaurant in the village -- The Lemongrass Grill. Near the 4th st subway station. cheers, --bongo ------------------------------ From: kpnnews@yahoo.com Subject: Re: ndc-two subjects not to discuss with folks you like Date: 21 Sep 2005 11:30:14 -0700 Stephen St. wrote: > Their children and how they act > > Their spouses and how they act. I would add religion to the list. We were hanging out with two friends this year when I opined on God answering prayers. My views did not jive at all with my friends wife. Subject would have been better left undiscussed. Politics can also be sketchy. I hate to say it, but education is the key with politics. The undereducated always spout the party lines and can never deviate from that (on both sides). I have had very good discussions with very liberal friends. We may have disagreed but we were able to see each others points. I have a liberal friend (from Chapel Hill no less) who used to spout the latest out-there rants against GWB and believe them. You know the charges snopes discredits in a couple of sentences. Kurt ------------------------------ From: "Roxanne McDaniel" Subject: Re: Brave New World Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 18:31:12 GMT "JC Martin" <> wrote in message George Bush Sr. admitted in his bio that he used psychiatric medication during his presidency. I personally believe Dubya uses them as well. All of those twitches and odd body movements seem involuntary. -JC *************************************** Is it nature or nurture? ------------------------------ From: "neurodancer" Subject: Re: ndc-two subjects not to discuss with folks you like Date: 21 Sep 2005 11:34:49 -0700 kpnn...@yahoo.com wrote: > Stephen St. wrote: > > Their children and how they act > > > > Their spouses and how they act. > > I would add religion to the list. We were hanging out with > two friends this year when I opined on God answering prayers. > My views did not jive at all with my friends wife. Subject > would have been better left undiscussed. Politics can also > be sketchy. I hate to say it, but education is the key with > politics. The undereducated always spout the party lines and > can never deviate from that (on both sides). I have had very > good discussions with very liberal friends. We may have > disagreed but we were able to see each others points. I > have a liberal friend (from Chapel Hill no less) who used to > spout the latest out-there rants against GWB and believe > them. You know the charges snopes discredits in a couple of > sentences. > > Kurt You've touched on the subjects that to my mind really aren't for discussion unless you know the persom more or less agrees with you because no one in history has ever had their mind changed by words: politcs, religion, abortion. I just leave it alone, haven't dicussed politics with my family (except in a very general way) for 20 years. ND ------------------------------ From: "pookietooth" Subject: Re: What are all those tracks for? Date: 21 Sep 2005 08:50:36 -0700 Kirk McElhearn wrote: > On jerrygarcia.com, talking about the 2/28/80 show: > > We dug into the vault and found pristine 24-track tapes of the Kean > College performance. > > Okay, 24-track sounds cool. But wait - it was a 4-member band. So Jerry > gets 4 tracks, two for guitar and two for vocals. Ozzie gets 4. Jahn > gets two. And De Foncesca, the drummer, gets, say, 8, because drum kits > are mixed multi-track. Add another 2 for Hunter's vocals, and that still > only comes to 22, and I'm being liberal for the drums. > > So what the heck do they do with 24 tracks in such a setup? > > Kirk I think they had Jerry's beard and ashtray mic'ed up during that performance too, or maybe it was just the beard in stereo. ------------------------------ From: Ken Fortenberry Subject: Re: Brave New World Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 18:33:12 GMT Sherry wrote: > > This is really frustrating for him. He can't "clown" his way out of it, and > all it seems he can do is keep taking it until he is relaxed enough to pay > attention to the road while the test guy is in the car. Thankfully it's only > $5 a pop to retake the test, but you have to wait a week in between. I have > him drive new routes all over to familiarize him as much as possible with > the roads in the town the DMV is in... anyone have any other ideas that > might help him? ... I flunked my first road test. I scraped a car while parking after the test in the parking lot, but Mr. Touchette told me I'd have flunked anyway because I stopped in an unmarked crosswalk at a stop sign. My Dad was livid and insisted I be tested again on the spot. I passed the second time. As for ideas to help your son, I'd say move to E. St. Louis, have your husband become involved in the patronage political scene and try the test again. Hey, worked for me. ;-) -- Ken Fortenberry ------------------------------ From: Brad Greer Subject: Re: Brave New World Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:37:04 -0400 On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 17:37:21 GMT, JC Martin wrote: >Everybody's Gonna Be Happy wrote: >> "Joe" wrote in message > >> >> The Bush administration actually proposed that all schoolkids be tested by >> shrinks for this phony ADD BS and then drugged appropriately. >> >> You're not all that far off on this one................ > > >George Bush Sr. admitted in his bio that he used psychiatric medication >during his presidency. I personally believe Dubya uses them as well. >All of those twitches and odd body movements seem involuntary. > I believe Bush Sr. was using halcion, or at least that was one of the drugs he was taking during his presidency. Halcion is supposed to be a short-term insomnia cure but Bush was taking it regularly. During my college days we had access to essentially as much halcion as we wanted, it was some pretty strong shit. Take a couple and you become a virtual zombie, you can walk around and hang out with people for hours and have no recollection the next day. ------------------------------ From: "Stephen St." Subject: Re: Brave New World Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 18:52:23 GMT "Sherry" wrote in message news:BF56F6FB.54D2C%sherry13@together.net... >> are you serious about how they diagnose the syndrome? Give the kid a few >> doses of ritalin and if they react a certain way, they have ADD? Wow, >> that >> seems a bit absurd to me. Im sure the pharma companies that make it love > > No, that's not how it was done for us or any other people we know. In our > cases, our kids were *off the wall*, 24/7, and especially if we had other > kids - we going crazy trying to keep our kids from hurting themselves and > others. When my son was not yet 2, he opened his bedroom window (which was > locked, but no lock has ever been able to stop him), climbed out on the > porch roof and was attempting to jump into the tree about 2 feet away from > the edge of the roof. I was in the house nursing Kaz (newborn) when I > thought I heard squirrels on the roof. We fed the squirrels regularly, so > I > went out with some bread and peanuts... and there was Tristan, right on > the > edge of the roof! That's one such episode - there were thousands. He has > NO > impulse control. He thinks it, he does it. NO thought. At ALL. I know it's > normal for 2-yr old to be like this, but Tristan's behavior was over the > top. And as he got older, it got worse - he was able to get into anything > and everything (SMART kid). Finally after he was kicked out of preschool > at > 3.4, we were given a 10-page sheet of questions with a scale of "never > occasionally often always" type thing, that we had to have everyone in > Tristan's life in any way, fill out. Based on those answers and 4 separate > 3-hour evaluations (2 in our home, 1 at preschool, 1 at the doc office), > we > decided to try the ritalin. > > Despite media claims, responsible parents do not just wish to "zombie" > their > kids into good behavior. We tried literally everything we could before > turning to drugs in desperation. I do not know any parents who just leaped > at the chance to drug their kids. > > Even my mother and sisters felt it was "me", and not really a real > problem... up until they took each one of the kids for a week in summer, > starting when they were 5, 2 and 1. When Tristan went to live with my > mother > for a year, her blinders really fell off. It's been my response to those > who > feel he would be different/better/not need drugs if only they and their > wonderful parenting skills were doing the job... to them, I say, when can > he > come to live with you? We'll start packing now. :) > Sherry, it sounds like you doing all you can. I dont have kids, so there is no way for me to really comment from a parents perspective... However, I was pretty hyper as a kid. Sports and the beach helped a lot to burn energy, but I was still pretty nuts until......wait for it......at 13 years old, my older brother took me to Englishtown for the GD show in 1977. I got dosed and my entire mindset was changed forever. Obviously, my parents had no idea we went because they thought we went camping. Funny thing was, from that day on my folks would let me go "camping" anytime I wanted. It turned into a code word for dead shows on the road. It was hard to explain the "camping" trips in the middle of winter, when I forgot the sleeping bag...hehe Obviously, this route is not the way for a kid to go. I guess my point is one day your kid will have a moment when all of it makes sense and he will slow down and take it all in. Thats my guess. Or, get a yellow labrador and it will occupy all his time and energy. ------------------------------ From: "Stephen St." Subject: Re: Brave New World Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 18:55:15 GMT "Joe" wrote in message news:3pddcgF9hlj8U1@individual.net... > >Campaigners believe that the increasing use of Ritalin follows > >the trend in America where it has been prescribed to children as > >young as 15 months. > > I can see the scenario now: > > Another American youth is approached by Doctor Mengele-Bush. "Your So from being a salient discussion about kids and adults with attention disorders, you turn it into a politcal discussion? This Joe guy needs some political Ritalin.... ------------------------------ From: "neurodancer" Crossposted-To: rec.music.phish,rec.music.dylan Subject: Re: HERE is your REVIEW of From the Big Apple to the Big Easy at Radio City Date: 21 Sep 2005 11:43:41 -0700 Schmoe wrote: > Bigmagnolia wrote: > > So I'm walking up 51st street about to enter Radio City and I see a > > guy who looks like Andy Hess (Black Crowes, Govt Mule) walking aroung > > looking like he's trying to find his way in. I says" Excuse me are you > > Andy Hess?" This rail thin man looks at me like he couldn't be > > bothered and says that he is. I ask if he is playing with anyone > > tonite and he says no. Yeah, it was a real pleasure to meet you too. > > Good review, appropriately cross-posted and well written. Andy Hess a > reluctant star? I think not. Maybe he had a headache. Hey Schmoe There's another review on rec.music.phish (not crossposted to rmgd) that I think you'll like even more. The guy goes on and on about how hoplessly boring and trite Trey is now. Not that I agree but it's pretty funny. ND ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Brave New World From: Sherry Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 18:22:20 GMT > Bingo, Bango! > > The average American does NOT want to believe that the immunizations > we so dutifully, give our babies, MIGHT be tainted with an ingredient > that could cause neurological problems. Yet we ARE discovering > otherwise... I agree. In hindsight, unfortunately. I did vaccinate all my kids, but not as young as they recommend, nor in regular multiples as I was as a kid (MMR, for example). I didn't vaccinate any of them for chicken pox. All got a fair case of chicken pox on their own, as I did as a kid. All my doc could give for an excuse was "it saves on work sick days" to give my kid the vaccine. I won't even get into how I feel about that! My doctor lets me read the labels on the vaccines - because "even though we don't use vaccines with mercury in them any more", some old stock is still being used. Not on my kids though... though maybe Thea and her baby sister, if the shots they got/were given in China had it. US tends to dump "illegal" and "unusable" stuff overseas, gotta make that profit at all costs! :( Sherry in Vermont ------------------------------ From: "Stephen St." Subject: Re: What's It Like in Atlantic City? Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 19:01:25 GMT "mjd" wrote in message news:1127322226.705744.197080@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > medical waste on beaches was better in the 70s So was getting stabbed.... ------------------------------ From: "walstib77" Subject: Re: What's It Like in Atlantic City? Date: 21 Sep 2005 11:52:19 -0700 It's like a "Monopoly" game board. ;^} ------------------------------ From: "Stephen St." Subject: Re: ndc-two subjects not to discuss with folks you like Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 19:06:19 GMT wrote in message news:1127327274.216566.121280@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com... > I've also noticed that these two cause problems as well: > > - Their views on repubican vs. democrat > > - Their religious beliefs > Agree with religious one..but... Ive found if you smoke a heap of good buds prior to politcal discussions, they can be managed somewhat. I get an unstoppable grin when I smoke, so its easy to keep folks from getting angry....that, or I just cave in and change the subject.... ------------------------------ From: "Stephen St." Subject: Re: ndc-two subjects not to discuss with folks you like Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 19:08:19 GMT "neurodancer" wrote in message news:1127327689.574042.160440@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com... > because no one in history has ever had their mind changed by words: > politcs, religion, abortion. > Chairman Mao and I had a good laugh over this post. (he did say diplomacy is the barrell of a gun, didnt he??) ------------------------------ ** FOR YOUR REFERENCE ** The service addresses, to which questions about the list itself and requests to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, are as follows: Internet: dead-flames-request@gdead.berkeley.edu Bitnet: dead-flames-request%gdead.berkeley.edu@ucbcmsa Uucp: ...!{ucbvax,uunet}!gdead.berkeley.edu!dead-flames-request You can send mail to the entire list (and rec.music.gdead) via one of these addresses: Internet: dead-flames@gdead.berkeley.edu Bitnet: dead-flames%gdead.berkeley.edu@ucbcmsa Uucp: ...!{ucbvax,uunet}!gdead.berkeley.edu!dead-flames End of Dead-Flames Digest ****************************** .