From: Digestifier To: Subject: Dead-Flames Digest #339 Dead-Flames Digest #339, Volume #48 Tue, 20 Sep 05 08:00:01 PDT Contents: Re: NYC advise needed (CC,NDC) ("Greg Sasso") Extra Shn Sets of 12/28/88 and 6/24/91 for b/p (Jeff Fishman) Re: The REAL Disaster (NDC) ("volkfolk") Re: 7/7/81 and 7/4/81 FLAC vine, No B No P. ("Steve Terry") Owsley on Tapers Back Then ("Olompali4") Re: 10 years ago today ("Rogues Island's finest") Re: NYC advise needed (CC,NDC) (DB) Re: The REAL Disaster (NDC) ("Richard Morris") Re: Owsley on Tapers Back Then ("Olompali4") Re: North Carolinians love their ganja! (bill.robinette@gmail.com) Re: The REAL Disaster (NDC) ("Richard Morris") Re: Global Warming!...President fails to act! ("pv34pv3p") Re: thank me later (wyeknot) Re: Clinton interviews.. (bigamps) Re: thank me later ("Carlisle") Re: 10 years ago today ("R") Re: Louisiana Officials Indicted Before Katrina Hit ("pv34pv3p") Re: 10 years ago today ("Rupert") Re: 10 years ago today ("Rogues Island's finest") Re: thank me later (wyeknot) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Greg Sasso" Subject: Re: NYC advise needed (CC,NDC) Date: 20 Sep 2005 05:05:48 -0700 If this is your first time to the city, I HIGHLY reccomend you take some more time off and take a few days to enjoy it. Just about anything is easily accessible in Manhattan by subway. Depending on how cheap you want to go, there's a hostel right around Times Square that's pretty cheap. ------------------------------ Subject: Extra Shn Sets of 12/28/88 and 6/24/91 for b/p From: Jeff Fishman Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 12:05:10 GMT I have extra sets of the Healy matrix of 12/28/88 and the AKG 460 Digital Audience of 6/24/91 Please e-mail if interested Jeff ------------------------------ From: "volkfolk" Subject: Re: The REAL Disaster (NDC) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:21:38 -0400 "Richard Morris" wrote in message news:w92dnZGecOIzybLeRVn-3Q@comcast.com... > > "volkfolk" wrote in message > news:UPidnUzR-Y0uO7PeRVn-oA@comcast.com... >> Unfortunately some (most?) people still base their perceptions and >> opinions on stereotypes. I have seen it with my own eyes. > > Indeed they do ... some have even suggested that we are genetically > hardwired to stereotype. I beleive thisis true. I catch myself basing my perceptions of people based on appearance quite often. I KNOW that I am not alone in that. I am aware of it so I dismiss it and often find that my perception is incorrect when I get to know them >> Prejudices are every where,. and it is very unfortunate, but ANYONE can >> be successful in this country if they want to work hard. I live one town >> over from one of the most racially diverse cities in Massachusetts, >> (Lowell, MA) There are at least 20 distinct ethnic communities. There is >> a sizable group of Africans within that group (Liberian, Sierra Leone, >> Kenyan mostly with a few other countris mixed in) The Africans who I >> know are of the opinion that American blacks spend (waste) a lot of time >> feeling sorry for themselves and dwelling on how the got screwed by white >> people. Their opinion is that there is more opportunity here than there >> is anywhere else in the world, and they don't care about whatever >> prejudices some people might harbor > > Certainly ... but the point of all of this wasn't to dispute that the > issue of bias is on the minds of black folks all the time. The point was > to demonstrate that there is a reason why that is so. Outsiders can see > it as an over-reaction ... white people can see it that way if they want > to. But to not understand that it is there, and that the feelings are > reinforced in the experiences of black people continually is to simply not > understand the totality of the situation. Why is that my African friends don't have the same reaction to prejudice and racism (real or percieved) that African Americans do? Why is it that Bill Cosby's message was so roundly criticsized by the black community? My take on it is that the "leaders" of the Black community like Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton et al. have spent all of their time convincing their base of their status as victims. If Martin Luther King were alive today, I doubt that would be his message. I believe that he would fall into the Cosby camp. The ONLY way that Blacks will ever diminish the effects of racism on their community is when they stop buying into the message that all white people are out to get them. >>> Another one: My friend Dr. Tom Williams, PhD in education loves to tell >>> the story of him driving down Interstate 5 by himself one afternoon. He >>> needs to pass a slower-moving car so he does, but as he gets up next to >>> the car he sees that it is being driven by a woman by herself. She >>> looks to her left as he passes her, and sees him in his car ... and she >>> reaches over and locks her door! Going 70 miles an hour on the freeway! >> >> I have had the same experience that your friend had. (although I was >> stopped at a traffic light) I have a ponytail and sometimes have a beard. >> I don't think that I am the least bit intimidating, but obviously this >> woman thought that I was threatening looking based on my appearence. Many >> woman who are alone are afraid of men. > > Yes. But don't you dig the absurdity of feeling threatened by someone to > the extent that you lock your door while driving down the freeway at 70 > mph? Tom is a very sharp dresser, and was driving a Lexus. Yet, the woman > perceived him as threatening because he is black. > And do you understand that you can go home, shave, get a haircut, and > dress up? But a black man can't go home and change his skin color. That is true >> Racism will never go away. It is part of human nature to be suspicious >> and afraid of people who are different than they are. It has been >> happening throughout recorded history. What makes any of us think that it >> will ever stop being an issue? > > Sounds like a good reason for black people to give up and go on welfare, > then. You admit that they are right, I guess. ### I thnk you are misunderstanding my basic point, which is, who cares what anyone thinks? It reminds me of the story that was in the news last year about the black woman who was completely traumatized by the Southwest Airlines flight attendent who said over the plane's PA "Ene, meeni, minei, moe, grab a seat, it's time to go" because of the racial basis of the original rhyme. Get over it and move on, the world is filled with insensitive people, and with people who base their world on stereotypes. >>> Some black folks teach their kids that they have to be "better than" in >>> order to make it ... >> >> That is good advice to give any child of any race. > > That may sound good to you in a general sense, but in the context of skin > color, I can't agree with you. What your are telling the kid, then, is > that because they are black, they have to work harder than white kids to > achieve the same level of success. You are telling them that the world is > unfair, that the playing field is not level because they are black. Life is NEVER a level playing field. > How long would it take you, if you were a black kid, to hate white people > under those circumstances? I think it would depend on my parents, my environment, the white people I did know etc. Certainly if I were a black kid raised by a unwed teenage girl Roxbury, Watts or Bedford Sty, not very long. If I were raised in a middle class community by two parents, I doubt I would. >>>others teach their kids that the deck is stacked against them in the >>>white man's world so they just have to get over any way that they can ... >> >> That is bad advice IMO, because in this day and age, I don't believe it >> to be true. Life is never an equal playing field, no matter how much we >> wish it was. > > Scot, I definitely believe that shit happens. Life offers no guarantees. > But we are not talking about some abstraction here ... we are talking > about racism happening. We are talking about both unintentional and > intentional conduct on the part of one group, directed at another group, > which denies them the same privileges that the majority group takes for > granted. From where I sit (Northeastern Massachusetts) I don't see a whole lot of opportunities being denied to anyone based on race alone. I see opportunities denied based on education and socio economic factors, but not race. Which isn't to say that it doesn't happen. I don't know about the south, or California or the mid west, because I have never lived in those places, I suspect that economics are a far larger factor than race in most places > I don't think that you understand that fully, but it is a key to > understanding why black people react the way that they do within the > American culture. I understand, but I don't think all of the blame lies within the white community, I think that the current black leadership has done a huge diservice to their constituency by allowing them to be victims instead of empowering them as Martin Luther King did YMMV, Scot ------------------------------ From: "Steve Terry" Subject: Re: 7/7/81 and 7/4/81 FLAC vine, No B No P. Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 07:41:53 -0500 We have a taker. Look for Bill to reoffer soon. Ciao. ------------------------------ From: "Olompali4" Subject: Owsley on Tapers Back Then Date: 20 Sep 2005 06:06:34 -0700 >From some cat named cream_puff_war in the archive reviews for 2/2/70 I emailed Owsley, Bear to find out more about circulating tapes missing moments from the Fillmore West 1970 shows. Owsley replied: "No the truth is, all the tapes you refer to are bogus- fakes, as are 90% of all 'rare' shows and virtually all early shows supposed to be 'soundboards'. The thing is, the Dead played thousands of shows, and mostly in halls which sounded a lot alike. They had a wide but repetitive repertoire, and it is child's play to assemble virtually any kind of 'set list' from any taper's extensive and varied collection of tapes. If you, personally, did not actually, on your own machine- record a given show, there is literally no way it can ever be proven to you to be from any particualar show. Thus all that huge taper scene is generally of interest only so far as the tape is listenable, and had zero historic significance- that falls only to the archival tapes recorded by the band's successive soundmen and kept in the GD vault. Trust me, I NEVER have given any copies of my sonic journals to anyone and no one else recorded the shows, from my board OR in the audience- we did in fact from time to time confiscate tapes and machines. Cassette recorders, especially stereo ones, were very rare, reel to reel machines bulky, and also expensive- live taping in the audience simply did not happen back then, however there are tapes floating around which even claim to be of shows which were cancelled and never happened..." Quote -unquote... ------------------------------ From: "Rogues Island's finest" Subject: Re: 10 years ago today Date: 20 Sep 2005 06:19:27 -0700 Dave Kelly wrote: > "Rogues Island's finest" wrote in message > news:1127132112.975484.216200@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > > The tickets I have framed over my desk would have been used to see the > > Grateful Dead play their last show at the Boston Garden. > > > > sigh. > > > > Mark > > * Stop playing, Nantucket...you have NO desk! Well, by "desk", I mean "glass topped lobster pot". Mark ------------------------------ From: DB Subject: Re: NYC advise needed (CC,NDC) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 09:22:09 -0400 kpnnews@yahoo.com wrote: > Spider Dawg wrote: > >>Now I've got to figure out how to get there and where I'm gonna stay. >>I've never been to "the" city and am not too crazy about the idea of >>trying to drive there, or find my way around via public transportation, >>so I'm thinking of taking Amtrak right to Penn Station. > > > I did a quick search on kayak.com, and the rates aren't bad, but I > can't > say if they are decent. You can do your own search and see. The results > are given in distance from Grand Central, but you can then sort on > price. > > However, the main reason I responded was to say that the subway is > your friend in NYC. Just pick up a subway map at one of the stations, > and you are good to go. > > Also, go to Ollie's Noodle Shop for excellent Chinese roast meats > and noodle soups and dumplings. > > Kurt > > PS - Once you get your hotel, I am sure that the folks here will give > you good advice so your time in the city will be very well spent. > MMmmmmmmmm. Ollie's is good. I have only eaten that the two on the Upper West Side (Lincoln Square and B'way and 85th) and I know that there is one in the Times Square area now. It's about as close as you can get to eating in Chinatown without going to Chinatown. By the way, Chinatown is not that hard to get to by subway. db ------------------------------ From: "Richard Morris" Subject: Re: The REAL Disaster (NDC) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 06:25:30 -0700 "Tim Donohoe" wrote in message news:MwMXe.35862$%w.34151@twister.nyc.rr.com... > Richard Morris wrote: >> "Tim Donohoe" wrote in message >> news:YRKXe.13416$x43.2774278@twister.nyc.rr.com... >> >>>Sherry wrote: >>> >>> >>>>>I contend that black people can be plenty racist regardless of their >>>>>"position" >>>> >>>> >>>>They can be prejudiced, but racism is about who has power. >>>> >>>>Go here, learn: >>>> >>>>http://www.learntoquestion.com/class/log/archives/print/000442.html >>>> >>>>Sherry in Vermont >>>> >>> >>>When you are in the south bronx, you don't have "the power" >>> >>>The store owner in Harlem didn't have "the power" >>> >>>The business owners in LA didn't have much power either. Many of whom >>>were >>>doing business in LA because they couldn't afford to open their shops on >>>Rodeo drive, some who could barely speak english and ended up in that >>>neighborhood because they couldn't afford to go anywhere else. When the >>>shit hit the fan though there were people who immediatly targeted the non >>>black businesses. That is a pure form of racism. >>> >>>1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or >>>ability and that a particular race is superior to others. >>>2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race. >>> >>>No matter how you twist the meaning of the word to avoid hurting people's >>>feelings, it is still racism by both definitions of the word. >>> >>>If you want to get into generational or institutionalized racism that >>>might be a different story, but when you look at any of the examples I >>>provided and the definition of racism you can see that black people can >>>be >>>racists. >>> >>>I would post a link to a Farrakhan speech but that might start a whole >>>week of racism posts. >> >> >> What the fuck is your point? That black people know how to hate? Duh. >> Thanks for pointing that out. Any other revelations that you care to >> share? >> >> R. >> >> >> > > Rather than respond like an asshole maybe you should read the short > discussion between Roxanne and me. SOP for you to change the subject in > the middle of a conversation though, but you are extending that tactic to > discussions you aren't involved in now. Oh, I read ... and once again ask you to state what point it is that you are trying to make, and why. > here is the jist of it: > > Me: I contend that black people can be plenty racist regardless of their > "position" > > Roxanne: They can be prejudiced, but racism is about who has power. Richard: So ... okay. What is the point? What purpose do you have in stating that black people can be plenty racist, prejudiced, bigoted, or whatever term and definition you wish to apply? What leads you to make that observation? ------------------------------ From: "Olompali4" Subject: Re: Owsley on Tapers Back Then Date: 20 Sep 2005 06:34:28 -0700 >From some cat named cream_puff_war in the archive reviews for 2/2/70 That should read 6/6/70 ------------------------------ From: bill.robinette@gmail.com Subject: Re: North Carolinians love their ganja! Date: 20 Sep 2005 06:37:45 -0700 Mookie wrote: > ba ba booie wrote: > > North Carolinians love their ganja! > > Believe it or not, (and I have nothing to back this up except my foggy > memory reading it somewhere, that THAT is the number one cash crop in > ole' NC. Not according to Norml http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=3906 ------------------------------ From: "Richard Morris" Subject: Re: The REAL Disaster (NDC) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 06:39:14 -0700 "volkfolk" wrote in message news:HJCdnRWzMsskY7LeRVn-qg@comcast.com... > > "Richard Morris" wrote in message > news:w92dnZGecOIzybLeRVn-3Q@comcast.com... snip > Life is NEVER a level playing field. But listen to the corollary to that: "life is never a level playing field", therefore, "accept racism and get over it". Isn't that where your assertion leads when applied to the problem of racism? > From where I sit (Northeastern Massachusetts) I don't see a whole lot of > opportunities being denied to anyone based on race alone. I see > opportunities denied based on education and socio economic factors, but > not race. Which isn't to say that it doesn't happen. I don't know about > the south, or California or the mid west, because I have never lived in > those places, I suspect that economics are a far larger factor than race > in most places What you can't see are the feelings that people have. Justified or not ... the conclusions that people have drawn as a result of their life experiences and the experiences of others. Part of why the Africans you know don't share those feelings of anger, frustration, rage, dependence, hopelessness, and so forth, is that they have not had the same set of experiences, I suspect. But after one of them is denied housing because they are black ... pulled over for a routine traffic stop and handcuffed while a warrant check is done because they are black ... had "nigger" grafitied on their house ..... had their kids placed in remedial classes in school because they are black ... watched someone with less seniority and skills get a promotion ... and on an on, they might just see things differently. > I understand, but I don't think all of the blame lies within the white > community, I think that the current black leadership has done a huge > diservice to their constituency by allowing them to be victims instead of > empowering them as Martin Luther King did It is not about blame ... it is about awareness, bro. It is about not practicing denial that this stuff is still happening, and about understanding why black people feel the way they do. You didn't cause it, I didn't cause it ... yet it happens. The question is simply what to do about it, not to try to figure out who is at fault. R. ------------------------------ From: "pv34pv3p" Subject: Re: Global Warming!...President fails to act! Date: 20 Sep 2005 07:01:57 -0700 Ray hijacks the topic, then renames it...Jumps up and down like a bitch with a pogo stick up his ass, and has the nerve to spout Troll... Round 2....Ding... >Hey troll boy: Care to actually engage in real conversation instead of >throwing mud and running away when called on it? If so, please >directly and honestly answer these questions instead of continuing to >throw mud at and/or run away from them: >* Do you acknowledge that the Bush Adminstration's response during the >first several days of the Katrina disaster was inexcusably poor? What part of: >Poor??? How 'bout less than ideal...'Bout as far as I'm gonna go being >there was NO FUCKING RESPONSE from the local potato heads other than >sittin' round shittin' their pants and pointing fingers... Did you not understand? >(Sorry troll boy - anything less than a "yes" to this question from >someone like you who has repeatedly lambasted local and state >authorities while leaving the feds of the hook will still leave you as >a troll boy, and/or continue to demonstrate that you are such a >partisan ideologue that your brain is warped beyond any reasonable >understanding of reality.) Damn Ray...Now your the final arbitor of who's what, and why??? All I did was post a factual title...and a factual article that just happened to display the differences in reaction to the death of over 700 marginalized people...Your the one who wants to roll around in the minutia...I never had one disparaging remark for Clinton.Your spastic knee-jerk everything's W's fault blinds you to this...and make it abundantly apparent who the partisan ideologue/troll really is... The only other thing that could adequately explain your drivel is if perhaps your last name is Nagin.... pv34pv3p(Winner by TKO...) ------------------------------ From: wyeknot Subject: Re: thank me later Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 10:10:18 -0400 Joe wrote: > In your hatred, you mistook me for Chris Heresy, a guy who does indeed > type to himself. It's OK dummy Joe, I forgive ya. Feeble and old is something you can't help at this point. Matt ------------------------------ From: bigamps Subject: Re: Clinton interviews.. Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 13:34:32 GMT wyeknot wrote: > wyeknot wrote: > >> Roxanne McDaniel wrote: >> >>> "wyeknot" < wrote in message ... >>> brew ziggins wrote: >>> >>>> Personally, I didn't mind his philandering so much as the bimbos he >>>> philandered with. He could have been boffing supermodels and Hollywood >>>> royalty, but he couldn't get past the trailer trash. >>> >>> >>> >>> Supermodels, Hollywood Royalty, and Trailer Trash all rate about the >>> same in my book. >> >> >> ***** >> >>> The sad part is you need to examine your own biases. >>> You are lumping people into a category based on where >>> they live and how "back-ass" you assume them to be. >>> Pretty similar to the evacuees, eh? >> >> >> >> Roxanne, you are a funny one. So my statement that I find >> "Supermodels, Hollywood Royalty, and Trailer Trash" equally >> unattractive was interpretted by you as a massive anti-Clinton, >> anti-evacuee rant?!?! >> >> Are you on drugs? >> >> If not, your reading comprehension skills are seriously lacking today. > > > > > Matt Looks like Rox has the same opinion all those Supermodels, Hollywood Royalty, and Trailer Trash have, but at least she's just ignoring you instead of telling you to get lost, maybe you can consider that a victory, eh? ------------------------------ From: "Carlisle" Subject: Re: thank me later Date: 20 Sep 2005 07:19:19 -0700 wyeknot wrote: > Joe wrote: > > In your hatred, you mistook me for Chris Heresy, a guy who does indeed > > type to himself. > > It's OK dummy Joe, I forgive ya. Feeble and old is something you can't > help at this point. > > Matt Hey Matt- According to Joe, you are supposed to be paying me attention. Yeah I know, I'm not spicy and interesting like Joe. But it's all you got now, dude. I paid $10.00 . . . ;} peazzz, carrie ------------------------------ From: "R" Subject: Re: 10 years ago today Date: 20 Sep 2005 07:15:05 -0700 I liked the Garden as well, but let's face it it had to go, it was an old rat infested building where the AC didn't work right (that why there were seldom events held in the Garden during the summer months. anyone remember Celtic/Lakers in June when it was 90+ degrees on the court, or the Bruins playoff game that needed to be paused because of the fog on the ice. Not only was there problem with the accoustics (how many times did the Dead play Sampson and Deliah there with it's chorus "If I had my way I would tears this whole building down"), but they also had those great obstructed view seats. I miss the Gardens character and don't really like the new one because of it's lack of character, but the new one is a. more comfortable and b. sounds better. ------------------------------ From: "pv34pv3p" Subject: Re: Louisiana Officials Indicted Before Katrina Hit Date: 20 Sep 2005 07:18:07 -0700 The real beauty in all this is the proven liar, and shameless skunk Aaron Broussard who subjected America to quite possibly the worst acting in history, on Russert a while back, is one of those originally indicted... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9368952 pv34pv3p(That boy's got some splainin' to do....) ------------------------------ From: "Rupert" Subject: Re: 10 years ago today Date: 20 Sep 2005 07:25:49 -0700 Speaking of...the other day we went past the apartment building where Winterland used to stand, and the restaurant on the corner is now the Winterland Restaurant! The fucking nerve. ------------------------------ From: "Rogues Island's finest" Subject: Re: 10 years ago today Date: 20 Sep 2005 07:23:46 -0700 R wrote: > I liked the Garden as well, but let's face it it had to go, it was an > old rat infested building where the AC didn't work right (that why > there were seldom events held in the Garden during the summer months. > anyone remember Celtic/Lakers in June when it was 90+ degrees on the > court, or the Bruins playoff game that needed to be paused because of > the fog on the ice. Not only was there problem with the accoustics > (how many times did the Dead play Sampson and Deliah there with it's > chorus "If I had my way I would tears this whole building down") I'm looking at that very phrase printed on my framed tickets.... >, but > they also had those great obstructed view seats. I miss the Gardens > character and don't really like the new one because of it's lack of > character, but the new one is a. more comfortable and b. sounds better. The old Gahhhhden was indeed a dump, but it had *soul*. The FleetBankofAmericaFirstNationalBankofNigeriaTDBanknorth Center has no soul....and very little of any significance, sporting or musical, has ever occurred there. TOO was pretty good a few years ago, with Susan Tedeschi doing the guitar reach around on Jimmy Herring. Mark ------------------------------ From: wyeknot Subject: Re: thank me later Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 10:36:49 -0400 Carlisle wrote: > wyeknot wrote: >>Joe wrote: >> >>>In your hatred, you mistook me for Chris Heresy, a guy who does indeed >>>type to himself. >> >>It's OK dummy Joe, I forgive ya. Feeble and old is something you can't >>help at this point. > > According to Joe, you are supposed to be paying me attention. Yeah I > know, I'm not spicy and interesting like Joe. But it's all you got now, > dude. I paid $10.00 . . . ;} Joe's been following me around the newsgroup for well over a year now. It's like I stepped in another dog's shit and Joe just can't get enough of sniffing at my shoes, the sick bastard :-) But I'm betting you're spicy and interesting. Matt ------------------------------ ** FOR YOUR REFERENCE ** The service addresses, to which questions about the list itself and requests to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, are as follows: Internet: dead-flames-request@gdead.berkeley.edu Bitnet: dead-flames-request%gdead.berkeley.edu@ucbcmsa Uucp: ...!{ucbvax,uunet}!gdead.berkeley.edu!dead-flames-request You can send mail to the entire list (and rec.music.gdead) via one of these addresses: Internet: dead-flames@gdead.berkeley.edu Bitnet: dead-flames%gdead.berkeley.edu@ucbcmsa Uucp: ...!{ucbvax,uunet}!gdead.berkeley.edu!dead-flames End of Dead-Flames Digest ****************************** .