From: Digestifier To: Subject: Dead-Flames Digest #328 Dead-Flames Digest #328, Volume #48 Mon, 19 Sep 05 07:00:02 PDT Contents: Re: I love a good Franklin's Tower ... ("Nick's Picks") Re: The REAL Disaster (NDC) ("volkfolk") 10 years ago today ("Rogues Island's finest") Re: Michael Moore Letter of 9-14-05 (NDC) ("volkfolk") Re: I love a good Franklin's Tower ... ("Dylanstubs") Re: Republican Criminals ("Schmoe") Re: The Bush clan are a bunch of criminals! ("Schmoe") Re: The Bush clan are a bunch of criminals! (Brad Greer) Re: Michael Moore Letter of 9-14-05 (NDC) (Brad Greer) Re: The REAL Disaster (NDC) ("Everybody's Gonna Be Happy") Re: The REAL Disaster (NDC) ("Everybody's Gonna Be Happy") Re: I love a good Franklin's Tower ... ("tim_ratdog") Re: I love a good Franklins (brew ziggins) Re: Oh, By the Way...... ("Everybody's Gonna Be Happy") Re: 10 years ago today ("Everybody's Gonna Be Happy") ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Nick's Picks" Subject: Re: I love a good Franklin's Tower ... Date: 19 Sep 2005 04:31:34 -0700 I dont think any of these are the best, but I like them. 10-1-94 you have to admit, this one is pretty damn tight! 9-10-91 I love Bobby'd MIDI percussion...Branford, Bruce and Jerry are obviously having a good time playing off of each other. It makes for a very fun version. 3-29-95 despite the pathetic band on stage...Jerry seems to muster up some real emotion in his delivery on this version. Both vocally and through his guitar. And the rest of the band seems to melt around him on those stronger parts. The painfully long intro and crowd responce is great. We were all hanging on every note...and some of them were splended. Its the last good version, imo. the AUD sources are very nice. ------------------------------ From: "volkfolk" Subject: Re: The REAL Disaster (NDC) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 07:53:46 -0400 "Richard Morris" wrote in message news:C_2dnShcWPSlQ7DeRVn-pQ@comcast.com... > > "volkfolk" wrote in message > news:TridnXkmB7uKSrDeRVn-qw@comcast.com... > > snip > >> I don't disagree with this premise, but I think most successful people, >> no matter what their race, don't spend a whole lot of time dwelling on >> obstacles or feeling sorry for themselves. While I agree that >> historically Black people's opportunities were limited by their skin >> color, I don't believe that is true today. Economics are the biggest >> factor in anyones success, not race. > > It is not a matter of dwelling on obstacles or feeling sorry for > themselves. It is a matter of fact that they get daily reminders, some > very trivial, some very profound, not to take anything for granted and > assume that they have, "made it". > A couple of examples. > > My colleague that I work with ... B.A. from Cal Berkeley, graduate degree > in education. His wife is a medical doctor. By every stretch of the > imagination, these are successful folks, with a six-figure income. We > were talking about looking for a new car the other day. He mentioned that > when he goes car shopping, he has to wear a shirt and tie, preferably > jacket. Not wise for him to go in shorts and a t shirt like me. Why? > Because car salesman make all kinds of assumptions about him as a black > male that they don't make about me with respect to honesty, ability to > pay, and so forth. A big deal? Not in isolation maybe. But when you > encounter this shit on a regular basis, you understand that there is > something out there that you have to watch out for, and that society might > hold back on you at any time. Unfortunately some (most?) people still base their perceptions and opinions on stereotypes. I have seen it with my own eyes. Prejudices are every where,. and it is very unfortunate, but ANYONE can be successful in this country if they want to work hard. I live one town over from one of the most racially diverse cities in Massachusetts, (Lowell, MA) There are at least 20 distinct ethnic communities. There is a sizable group of Africans within that group (Liberian, Sierra Leone, Kenyan mostly with a few other countris mixed in) The Africans who I know are of the opinion that American blacks spend (waste) a lot of time feeling sorry for themselves and dwelling on how the got screwed by white people. Their opinion is that there is more opportunity here than there is anywhere else in the world, and they don't care about whatever prejudices some people might harbor > Another one: My friend Dr. Tom Williams, PhD in education loves to tell > the story of him driving down Interstate 5 by himself one afternoon. He > needs to pass a slower-moving car so he does, but as he gets up next to > the car he sees that it is being driven by a woman by herself. She looks > to her left as he passes her, and sees him in his car ... and she reaches > over and locks her door! Going 70 miles an hour on the freeway! I have had the same experience that your friend had. (although I was stopped at a traffic light) I have a ponytail and sometimes have a beard. I don't think that I am the least bit intimidating, but obviously this woman thought that I was threatening looking based on my appearence. Many woman who are alone are afraid of men. > I could tell you many stories like this. Most of them sort of trivial ... > some involve people losing their jobs. Some involve people not being able > to get jobs. In every case, it is *not* something that white people > experience regularly, and most simply are not aware that it happens. They > think everyone else experiences the world just like they do, and that > racism passed away in our society decades ago. Racism will never go away. It is part of human nature to be suspicious and afraid of people who are different than they are. It has been happening throughout recorded history. What makes any of us think that it will ever stop being an issue? > Some black folks teach their kids that they have to be "better than" in > order to make it ... That is good advice to give any child of any race. >others teach their kids that the deck is stacked against them in the white >man's world so they just have to get over any way that they can ... That is bad advice IMO, because in this day and age, I don't believe it to be true. Life is never an equal playing field, no matter how much we wish it was. >others teach their kids that in order to make it you have to be successful >in the areas where black folks can compete on equal terms: sports and >entertainment (or the kids soak it up from society). How many white people >feel compelled to give messages like that to their kids in order to help >them to cope with the world? >> If this is going to change, it has to change from within the black >>> community, with the support of white folks. And Cosby's recent >>> experience demonstrates how tough that is going to be. >> >> Absolutely, but unless the Jesse Jackson's and the Louis Farrakan's stop >> playing the race card everytime that something happens to poor Black >> people it won't happen. > > Farrakan I have little use for. Hate isn't the answer, although the > Nation of Islam historically preaches the self-determination that you > desire everyone to practice. Jackson as a younger man worked well with > young people, pushing messages of responsibility, education, > self-determination, and so forth. I think he saw that maybe it wasn't > enough, I don't know. I don't necessarily agree with either of them, but > I am not nearly as afraid of them as I am of Bush. > By the way ... the time to talk to someone about responsibility and > self-determination is generally not right after they have lost everything > that they own! There is never a wrong time to talk to someone about self determination IMO.. Especially since many of these folks are going to have an opportunity to start with a clean slate. One of the things that Bush proposed is an idea that I really like, which is giving many of these folks a plot of land and low interest loan so that they can own their own homes. I think that is one of the best ways to attack poverty. Many of these people lived in ghettos their whole life and never owned anything of any value. Owning their own home will allow them to get a real leg up the economic ladder. YMMV, Scot ------------------------------ From: "Rogues Island's finest" Subject: 10 years ago today Date: 19 Sep 2005 05:15:13 -0700 The tickets I have framed over my desk would have been used to see the Grateful Dead play their last show at the Boston Garden. sigh. Mark ------------------------------ From: "volkfolk" Subject: Re: Michael Moore Letter of 9-14-05 (NDC) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 08:18:50 -0400 "Richard Morris" wrote in message news:2cSdnSyTfNiUPLDeRVn-rw@comcast.com... > > "volkfolk" wrote in message > news:e-Gdnad3UsrOArDeRVn-gw@comcast.com... >> >> "imsjry" wrote in message >> news:1126789756.988016.210290@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com... >>> >>> Jethro Q. Walrustitty wrote: >>>> Fuck him and eveyone who looks like him... >>> >>> Yeah, how dare he try to help those poor people? Isn't that what the >>> government is for? And that whole stopping the war bullshit? What a >>> dick.. >> >> Michael Moore is a publicity hound. He is an arrogant, self centered >> moron who is all about marketing Michael Moore > > Do you know him, then? Based on his behavior in his movies, and his public appearances, I see him as sanctimonious, arrogant, conceited and smug. Since he makes himself the center of every movie that he makes, I feel comfortable with my opinion of Mr Moore. Every time I have ever watched one of his movies, I have come away from them with the impression that his really isn't very sincere, or a very nice person FTM. As I stated earlier YMMV, Scot ------------------------------ From: "Dylanstubs" Subject: Re: I love a good Franklin's Tower ... Date: 19 Sep 2005 05:31:23 -0700 5/15/83 Franklin's didn't suck. Neither did the Help>Slip. :D ------------------------------ Reply-To: "Schmoe" From: "Schmoe" Subject: Re: Republican Criminals Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 08:33:27 -0400 Joe wrote: > > > So, what do YOU do besides get all uppity on Usenet and pass > judgement on those you've never met? I don't cut & paste articles from the AP on a music newsgroup. What exactly do you hope to accomplish by doing this? It appears that you are so full of yourself that you think you're offering an education on political events to us morons without the ability to read online news. Duh. > Do you offer free CDs or DVDs to your rmgd brethren? Well, I do, so > STFU. Well, I have done that once but my collection of music, while plentiful IMO, is filled with either purchased CD's or openly available BT & archived music. You argument, if I understand the post above, is that since you offer CD's or DVD's to RMGD brethren, it provides you with the holier than thou basic right to post AP articles. Here's how you prefaced this thread: "Republicans hate you, hate your children, and they especially hate anyone who questions their illegal, insane, genocidal ways". In that fit of eloquence, you told me my father-in-law, brother and quite a few friends hate me and my children. Nice! ------------------------------ Reply-To: "Schmoe" From: "Schmoe" Subject: Re: The Bush clan are a bunch of criminals! Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 08:36:31 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. =======_NextPart_000_00AD_01C5BCF5.3C515620 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Richard Morris wrote: > ">=20 > Yes, Joe ... you have simply *got* to stop exercising your right to > protected speech. >=20 Joe wrote "I just love ths smell of dead Iraqi babies first thing in the = morning.". That's not free speech, that's just disgusting stupidity. =======_NextPart_000_00AD_01C5BCF5.3C515620 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Richard Morris wrote:
> "> =
> Yes,=20 Joe ... you have simply *got* to stop exercising your right to
> = protected=20 speech.
>
 
Joe wrote "I just love ths smell of dead Iraqi babies first thing in the = morning.".=20 That's not free speech, that's just disgusting=20 stupidity.
=======_NextPart_000_00AD_01C5BCF5.3C515620== ------------------------------ From: Brad Greer Subject: Re: The Bush clan are a bunch of criminals! Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 09:14:38 -0400 On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 15:07:30 -0400, JimK wrote: >On 17 Sep 2005 10:18:34 -0700, "pv34pv3p" wrote: > >>Oh...and none of us has ever been guilty of public intoxication??? >>Or...not declaring something upon entering or exiting somewhere where >>the items are prohibited??? >> >>I see how it is...Ain't often right, but you've never been wrong... >> >>pv34pv3p(Seldom turns out like it does in this song....) > >This is one of those rare occasions when I can't quibble with a RWNW. >The families of politicians are no different than anyone else. >Excepting those rare perfect people, we've all done things that could >have landed us in jail, and I'm sure some of us have been arrested for >one thing or another. The only problem I have is when the politicians >are hypocrites and expect more lenient treatment for their own than >they're willing to give others in the same circumstances. > I agree with this - so what, Jeb's kids like to get a little fucked up now and then. Most of us went through a phase like that (some never left that phase, others have left it behind and some have found a way to moderate their desire to get fucked up in a socially acceptable fashion). His kid got busted for public intoxication? So what, who cares. And he's right - this is a private family matter that shouldn't be dealt with in the press. On the other hand, if Jeb expects his kid to be treated differently because of who he is then he's wrong. If he advocates harsh penalties for public intoxication but wants his kid to be left off then he's wrong. GWB's twin daughers liked to drink before they were of legal age? Big deal, I'm sure most of the people on this ng did a little drinking (or perhaps a lot) before they were of legal age. The Bush daughters got caught, that's all (of course, considering who they are you could argue they were pretty stupid to be drinking in public on fake IDs, but last time I checked being young and stupid wasn't a crime). Booie wants to take Jeb and GWB to task for not controlling their kids - I don't think they're doing all that much differently from most other parents. Kids like to get fucked up, it's just part of the deal for most of them. Parents can try to limit it, but most of our parents didn't stop us from using drugs and/or alcohol and most of us probably don't think we had bad, irresponsible parents. I can't stand the Bush clan as much as anyone, but I'm not going to blame them or condemn them because their kids like to catch a buzz and at least occasionally do stupid things. ------------------------------ From: Brad Greer Subject: Re: Michael Moore Letter of 9-14-05 (NDC) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 09:20:38 -0400 On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 08:18:50 -0400, "volkfolk" wrote: > >"Richard Morris" wrote in message >news:2cSdnSyTfNiUPLDeRVn-rw@comcast.com... >> >> "volkfolk" wrote in message >> news:e-Gdnad3UsrOArDeRVn-gw@comcast.com... >>> >>> "imsjry" wrote in message >>> news:1126789756.988016.210290@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com... >>>> >>>> Jethro Q. Walrustitty wrote: >>>>> Fuck him and eveyone who looks like him... >>>> >>>> Yeah, how dare he try to help those poor people? Isn't that what the >>>> government is for? And that whole stopping the war bullshit? What a >>>> dick.. >>> >>> Michael Moore is a publicity hound. He is an arrogant, self centered >>> moron who is all about marketing Michael Moore >> >> Do you know him, then? > >Based on his behavior in his movies, and his public appearances, I see him >as sanctimonious, arrogant, conceited and smug. >Since he makes himself the center of every movie that he makes, I feel >comfortable with my opinion of Mr Moore. Every time I have ever watched one >of his movies, I have come away from them with the impression that his >really isn't very sincere, or a very nice person FTM. > I like some of Moore's work, but I can't argue that he comes across as pretty smug and self-centered. That said, if he's raising money and taking action for Katrina relief than he's doing some good. ------------------------------ From: "Everybody's Gonna Be Happy" Subject: Re: The REAL Disaster (NDC) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 06:29:17 -0700 "Roxanne McDaniel" wrote in message news:YmhXe.54$rx5.49@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net... > > "Everybody's Gonna Be Happy" > wrote in message > "volkfolk" > wrote in message > ... >> >> "Roxanne McDaniel" wrote in message >>> "Stuknot" <> wrote in message ... >>> >>> I found it offensive. >>> >>> John H. >>> **************** >>> I did too. >> >> Unfortunately, I think that there is way more than a grain of truth. >> Forty >> years of "giving" people handouts instead of a hand up, has resulted in >> innercity poor that have no skills, no future and no hope. Why is that >> Asian immigrants come to this country and within a generation have >> children who are valedictorians in their High School and at the same time >> three or more generations of African American's where the men are in jail >> or just plain missing and the girls are pregnant at 14? >> >> I will tell you why, culture. The welfare state has created the problem, >> It is the old cliche' "Give a man a fish he eats for a day, teach a man >> to >> fish, he eats for life:" >> >> So while you may find it offensive, I think it hits on some essential >> truths >> >> Scot > > > Another thing no one wants to talk about is that almost 70% of the black > babies in this country are born to unwed women, mostly teenagers. > > Bill Cosby dares to discuss the anti-education and anti-intellectual > culture > American blacks have created and are perpetuating; a culture that is > openly > opposed to personal growth and success. Black kids who do well in school > are mocked and ostracized because they act "white". > > This is all connected to the welfare system and the entitlement mentality; > but these things can change if the black community, led by prominent, > successful, and popular black figures, puts their collective mind to it. > > There isn't much evidence this is happening or will ever happen. > > The Asians you mention base their lives on two things: family and > education. This is what they value, along with a tremendous work ethic. > Popular and successful black figures provide ostentatious displays of > material things obtained through overnight athletic or entertainment > success. Bling bling. > > Big difference. > > EGBH > ***************************** > I agree. And the dominant culture needs to make room for change as well. Definitely. I didn't bother to mention that since in this group it sorta goes without saying. EGBH ------------------------------ From: "Everybody's Gonna Be Happy" Subject: Re: The REAL Disaster (NDC) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 06:43:41 -0700 "JimK" wrote in message news:hi8si1ddpp3i0pp6g3ftpco473ptdr66fv@4ax.com... > On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 09:29:36 -0700, "Everybody's Gonna Be Happy" > wrote: > >> >>"volkfolk" wrote in message >>news:qrydnQg1YZCC6bDeRVn-jg@comcast.com... >>> >>> "Roxanne McDaniel" wrote in message >>> news:1mHWe.922$gK.322@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net... >>>> >>>> "Stuknot" <> wrote in message ... >>>> >>>> I found it offensive. >>>> >>>> John H. >>>> **************** >>>> I did too. >>> >>> Unfortunately, I think that there is way more than a grain of truth. >>> Forty >>> years of "giving" people handouts instead of a hand up, has resulted in >>> innercity poor that have no skills, no future and no hope. Why is that >>> Asian immigrants come to this country and within a generation have >>> children who are valedictorians in their High School and at the same >>> time >>> three or more generations of African American's where the men are in >>> jail >>> or just plain missing and the girls are pregnant at 14? >>> >>> I will tell you why, culture. The welfare state has created the problem, >>> It is the old cliche' "Give a man a fish he eats for a day, teach a man >>> to >>> fish, he eats for life:" >>> >>> So while you may find it offensive, I think it hits on some essential >>> truths >>> >>> Scot >> >> >>Another thing no one wants to talk about is that almost 70% of the black >>babies in this country are born to unwed women, mostly teenagers. >> >>Bill Cosby dares to discuss the anti-education and anti-intellectual >>culture >>American blacks have created and are perpetuating; a culture that is >>openly >>opposed to personal growth and success. Black kids who do well in school >>are mocked and ostracized because they act "white". >> >>This is all connected to the welfare system and the entitlement mentality; >>but these things can change if the black community, led by prominent, >>successful, and popular black figures, puts their collective mind to it. >> >>There isn't much evidence this is happening or will ever happen. >> >>The Asians you mention base their lives on two things: family and >>education. This is what they value, along with a tremendous work ethic. >>Popular and successful black figures provide ostentatious displays of >>material things obtained through overnight athletic or entertainment >>success. Bling bling. >> >>Big difference. >> >>EGBH >> >> > This is a subject that's way too complex for a usenet discussion, but > I think you have to start by acknowledging that there are deepseated > cultural factors that have led to poor blacks being in the position > they're in today. Lots of people complain about the "entitlement > mentality" without recognizing that white America is just as > responsible as black America for fostering that mentality. It's always > been easier to just throw money at the problem and hope it will go > away instead of doing the tough job of truly integrating blacks into > American society. At this point it shouldn't be that tough for the black community to integrate themselves. The questions isn't does racism still exist: of course it does. The question is how does the black community overcome it? I think a lot of the current racism is based on the current state of the black community. It isn't fair, but that "new" racism will continue until the black community makes more progress on their own. Family stability is part of that neccesary progress. EGBH ------------------------------ From: "tim_ratdog" Subject: Re: I love a good Franklin's Tower ... Date: 19 Sep 2005 06:45:21 -0700 Richard Morris wrote: > What's yer favorite Franklin? > I'd go with the 11/2/79 monster that I listened to all summer. After 20 minutes or so you really think, how can these guys take such a simple song and make it last this long and be so incredibly fantastic? -tim ------------------------------ From: brew ziggins Subject: Re: I love a good Franklins Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 09:53:39 -0400 Favorite In Person Franklins - 4/12/83 It was one of those moments where everybody in the hall (Broome County Arena, Binghamton NY) was on EXACTLY the same wavelength, and a very happy one it was. Preceded by a very deep, incisive Slipknot! Favorite On Tape Franklins....uh...all of them? If I have to pick, I'll go with 2/26/77. -- bruce higgins ithaca ny most of the day, we were at the machinery ------------------------------ From: "Everybody's Gonna Be Happy" Subject: Re: Oh, By the Way...... Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 06:55:02 -0700 "grtflmark" wrote in message news:1127106739.520984.22020@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > >the disaster struck. Glad that's settled. Guess Bush can >retract all > >those apologies now and rehire Brownie. > > ....have never implied, nor do I believe that such an action would be > appropriate - but it SURE as hell would be appropriate to put a few > heads from the State of Louisiana and City of New Orleans organizations > and governments on spikes! Serious question: what do you think of Bush's New Deal for the Gulf Coast, his plan to "end poverty as we know it" by spending hundreds of billions of dollars on welfare and public works programs in the area? The plan features the largest transfer of federal dollars to state and local governments in history. In Louisiana, that means the most corrupt local and state officials in the country. Do you still defend Bush as if he were a conservative god, or are you disappointed and angry that he is now the most liberal Democrat president of the last 100 years? What would you have thought if Clinton had proposed this boondoggle of a program? I remain amazed that any conservative would still support Bush, considering the war of aggression, the wastage of our military capabilities, the massive budget deficits he's already run up, and now this unbelievable expansion of federal involvement and alleged responsibility. BTW, anyone donating to the "BushClintonKatrinaFund" should be aware that most of that money will go directly to the local and state governments to spend as they please. That means much of the money will be spent on things that have nothing to do with the hurricane. EGBH ------------------------------ From: "Everybody's Gonna Be Happy" Subject: Re: 10 years ago today Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 06:56:38 -0700 "Rogues Island's finest" wrote in message news:1127132112.975484.216200@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > The tickets I have framed over my desk would have been used to see the > Grateful Dead play their last show at the Boston Garden. > > sigh. Yeah, it saddens me that the old Garden is no more.................. We've hashed and rehashed why there is no Jerry or GD anymore, but what about that Garden???? WHY??? EGBH ------------------------------ ** FOR YOUR REFERENCE ** The service addresses, to which questions about the list itself and requests to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, are as follows: Internet: dead-flames-request@gdead.berkeley.edu Bitnet: dead-flames-request%gdead.berkeley.edu@ucbcmsa Uucp: ...!{ucbvax,uunet}!gdead.berkeley.edu!dead-flames-request You can send mail to the entire list (and rec.music.gdead) via one of these addresses: Internet: dead-flames@gdead.berkeley.edu Bitnet: dead-flames%gdead.berkeley.edu@ucbcmsa Uucp: ...!{ucbvax,uunet}!gdead.berkeley.edu!dead-flames End of Dead-Flames Digest ****************************** .