From: Digestifier To: Subject: Dead-Flames Digest #327 Dead-Flames Digest #327, Volume #48 Mon, 19 Sep 05 05:00:02 PDT Contents: Re: Speaking of horns... (Orlando Enrique Fiol) Re: Clinton interviews.. (DG) Re: Why do mangers & players wear the same uniform? (Kelly Humphries) Re: Oh, By the Way...... ("grtflmark") Re: Oh, By the Way...... (DG) Re: Republican Criminals ("grtflmark") Re: Clinton interviews.. ("Richard Morris") Re: 700 Dead in Chicago!...President/FEMA fail to act! ("Ray") Re: The REAL Disaster (NDC) ("Ray") Wyoming Sex... ("seraphim") Re: Clinton interviews.. ("band beyond description") Re: The ultimate hippy vacation! (The Lord of Eltingville) Re: I love a good Franklin's Tower ... ("Nick's Picks") Re: The REAL Disaster (NDC) ("volkfolk") ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Orlando Enrique Fiol Subject: Re: Speaking of horns... Reply-To: ofiol@verizon.net Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 04:01:04 GMT the.stugots@gmail.com wrote: >Can anyone name a traditional 'rock' band where a horn section does >work? Steely Dan, Chicago, No Doubt (in their early days), Frank Zappa. Orlando ------------------------------ From: DG Subject: Re: Clinton interviews.. Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 21:16:36 -0700 Richard Morris wrote: > >Tim Donohoe wrote > >> DG wrote: >>> >>> I wish Clinton had done more after the WTC bombing the first time. >>> >>> >> >> I remember when that happened, in fact one of the 3 people who died used >> to work for me. I also remember that the investigation turned up a rented >> van immediately and the 2 scumbags responsible for the bombing (plus their >> leader a few months later) were rounded up and thrown in jail before they >> could celebrate their bombing. I was amazed by the FBIs tentacles back >> then, I never considered for one minute that there would be a need to go >> to war with another country over it. Right, we needed to fight an ideology. >>Maybe I was wrong, but back then it >> was the most amazing investigation and roundup I had ever seen, less than >> 2 weeks and the suspects were identified caught and rounded up. All this >> hindsight is pretty stupid IMO. I went through the path station less than three hours before it blew up. At the time, I wanted him to go at them. >> Another somewhat related point: Before the WTC bombing Clinton asked to >> expand the FBI's powers for wiretapping and phone tapping, every right >> winger I heard was up in arms over his suggestion that the FBI have more >> power to wiretap and spy on suspected terrorists. These same right >> wingers will bend over for an FBI rectal exam now since the Patriot Act, a >> right wing invention. Yet the Democrats who wanted to allow the FBI this >> additional power back in 93 are against it now. Is it any wonder nothing >> got fixed? >> >> I remember being against Clinton's wiretap idea the same way I am against >> the provisions of the Patriot Act. I thought it was too great an invasion >> of privacy and an unnecessary one considering the time it took the FBI to >> catch Timothy McVeigh and later the 3 WTC bombers. The people who agreed >> with me in 93 are the same people who disagree with me now. The ones who >> disagreed with me in 93 are the ones ranting and raving about the Patriot >> act nowadays. What a difference 10 years made. > >Good post ... people forget that for the most part, what Clinton was able to >accomplish occured during a time when he had the right wingers up in his >face hot and heavy the whole time. Hounded by a special prosecutor who >spent years and millions of dollars looking for something to pin on him. >Right wing think tanks figuring out how to spin and pin. > >Clinton made mistakes. NAFTA was one. NAFTA was signed by Bush Sr. and then Clinton picked it up. What are the problems with NAFTA? I searched the web but didn't find much good information. >Giving enemies something to go after >was another. But we were all so much better off under his >administration--personally, financially and nationally--that it simply >amazes me that anyone can think otherwise. I guess it is the "shit on the >upper lip" syndrome all over again. I agree that we were better off "personally, financially and nationally" under Clinton but that doesn't mean I won't be critical of him in other areas. ------------------------------ From: Kelly Humphries Subject: Re: Why do mangers & players wear the same uniform? Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 21:32:46 -0700 Also sprach Mookie : > ba ba booie wrote: > > Why is baseball the only sport where the manger dresses like the > > players? > > It looks kinda weird??? > > > > Just wondering? > > Connie Mack always wore a suit when he managed. > > http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers_and_honorees/hofer_bios/mack_connie.htm And look where he is today. ------------------------------ From: "grtflmark" Subject: Re: Oh, By the Way...... Date: 18 Sep 2005 22:12:19 -0700 >the disaster struck. Glad that's settled. Guess Bush can >retract all those apologies now and rehire Brownie. .....have never implied, nor do I believe that such an action would be appropriate - but it SURE as hell would be appropriate to put a few heads from the State of Louisiana and City of New Orleans organizations and governments on spikes! ------------------------------ From: DG Subject: Re: Oh, By the Way...... Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 22:16:05 -0700 grtflmark wrote: > >>the disaster struck. Glad that's settled. Guess Bush can >retract all those apologies now and rehire Brownie. > >....have never implied, nor do I believe that such an action would be >appropriate - but it SURE as hell would be appropriate to put a few >heads from the State of Louisiana and City of New Orleans organizations >and governments on spikes! So the feds don't get the spikes? Why? ------------------------------ From: "grtflmark" Subject: Re: Republican Criminals Date: 18 Sep 2005 22:16:45 -0700 >What do you propose I do to rid our government of Nazis, and >to rid rmgd of Nazi-sympathizers? >Joe ...... move to Manhattan and become a diamond-selling, Hassidic Jew........THAT'LL hold 'em! ------------------------------ From: "Richard Morris" Subject: Re: Clinton interviews.. Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 22:22:03 -0700 "DG" wrote in message news:35esi1hnd6b5o5u5mi3hf9klstdmgq51nv@4ax.com... snip > What are the problems with NAFTA? I searched the web but didn't find > much good information. I think from a broader view, NAFTA got folks into the mood for outsourcing--it became acceptable. Wages dropped here as well. R. ------------------------------ From: "Ray" Subject: Re: 700 Dead in Chicago!...President/FEMA fail to act! Date: 18 Sep 2005 22:55:42 -0700 pv34pv3p wrote: > Gotta go.... This, from a guy who had characterized those who had disagreed with him in this thread as "retreating" - LOL. > But just so things don't get stale before I get back.... < Deluge of cut-and-paste thrown out during PV's retreat & evading actual discussion the issues snipped > Hey PV: while you are away you might want to bone up on "that global warming shit" so that you can actually discuss the issue, as opposed to rhetorically discounting it and then retreating and running away when someone calls you on it. To get you started I recommend the 2003 Pentagon report on the subject that concluded, amongst other things: "There is substantial evidence to indicate that significant global warming will occur during the 21st century... because of the potentially dire consequences, the risk of abrupt climate change, although uncertain and quite possibly small, should be elevated beyond a scientific debate to a U.S. national security concern." http://www.ems.org/climate/pentagon_climate_change.html I've appended the report's executive summary at the end of this post. [1] And if you have a scientific background, I recommend Seinfeld & Pandis' "Atmospheric Chemistry and Physics: From Air Pollution to Climate Change" - as anyone with an atmospheric science background will tell you, it's the bible on the subject. Here's an excerpt from the introduction: "Evidence is mounting [that] 'greenhouse gases' [have] the potential to lead to an increase in the earth's temperature by several degrees Celsius... [which] could create dramatic changes in climatic extremes." This highly authoritive textbook then goes into complete detail about the atmospheric chemistry and physics involved - which is undisputed by the vast majority of the atmospheric science community. (However many conservative and libertarian ideologues without an atmospheric science background discount as much as possible this scientific consensus re- global warming - #gee I wonder why#.) HTH, Ray _______________________ "[Global warming is] the greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the American people," - Senator James Inhofe (R-Oklahoma) [1] _______________________ An Abrupt Climate Change Scenario and Its Implications for United States National Security October 2003 By Peter Schwartz and Doug Randall Imagining the Unthinkable The purpose of this report is to imagine the unthinkable - to push the boundaries of current research on climate change so we may better understand the potential implications on United States national security. We have interviewed leading climate change scientists, conducted additional research, and reviewed several iterations of the scenario with these experts. The scientists support this project, but caution that the scenario depicted is extreme in two fundamental ways. First, they suggest the occurrences we outline would most likely happen in a few regions, rather than on globally. Second, they say the magnitude of the event may be considerably smaller. We have created a climate change scenario that although not the most likely, is plausible, and would challenge United States national security in ways that should be considered immediately. Executive Summary There is substantial evidence to indicate that significant global warming will occur during the 21st century. Because changes have been gradual so far, and are projected to be similarly gradual in the future, the effects of global warming have the potential to be manageable for most nations. Recent research, however, suggests that there is a possibility that this gradual global warming could lead to a relatively abrupt slowing of the ocean's thermohaline conveyor, which could lead to harsher winter weather conditions, sharply reduced soil moisture, and more intense winds in certain regions that currently provide a significant fraction of the world's food production. With inadequate preparation, the result could be a significant drop in the human carrying capacity of the Earth's environment. The research suggests that once temperature rises above some threshold, adverse weather conditions could develop relatively abruptly, with persistent changes in the atmospheric circulation causing drops in some regions of 5-10 degrees Fahrenheit in a single decade. Paleoclimatic evidence suggests that altered climatic patterns could last for as much as a century, as they did when the ocean conveyor collapsed 8,200 years ago, or, at the extreme, could last as long as 1,000 years as they did during the Younger Dryas, which began about 12,700 years ago. In this report, as an alternative to the scenarios of gradual climatic warming that are so common, we outline an abrupt climate change scenario patterned after the 100-year event that occurred about 8,200 years ago. This abrupt change scenario is characterized by the following conditions: =B7 Annual average temperatures drop by up to 5 degrees Fahrenheit over Asia and North America and 6 degrees Fahrenheit in northern Europe =B7 Annual average temperatures increase by up to 4 degrees Fahrenheit in key areas throughout Australia, South America, and southern Africa. =B7 Drought persists for most of the decade in critical agricultural regions and in the water resource regions for major population centers in Europe and eastern North America. =B7 Winter storms and winds intensify, amplifying the impacts of the changes. Western Europe and the North Pacific experience enhanced winds. The report explores how such an abrupt climate change scenario could potentially de-stabilize the geo-political environment, leading to skirmishes, battles, and even war due to resource constraints such as: 1) Food shortages due to decreases in net global agricultural production 2) Decreased availability and quality of fresh water in key regions due to shifted precipitation patters, causing more frequent floods and droughts 3) Disrupted access to energy supplies due to extensive sea ice and storminess As global and local carrying capacities are reduced, tensions could mount around the world, leading to two fundamental strategies: defensive and offensive. Nations with the resources to do so may build virtual fortresses around their countries, preserving esources for themselves. Less fortunate nations especially those with ancient enmities with their neighbors, may initiate in struggles for access to food, clean water, or energy. Unlikely alliances could be formed as defense priorities shift and the goal is resources for survival rather than religion, ideology, or national honor. This scenario poses new challenges for the United States, and suggests several steps to be taken: =B7 Improve predictive climate models to allow investigation of a wider range of scenarios and to anticipate how and where changes could occur =B7 Assemble comprehensive predictive models of the potential impacts of abrupt climate change to improve projections of how climate could influence food, water, and energy =B7 Create vulnerability metrics to anticipate which countries are most vulnerable to climate change and therefore, could contribute materially to an increasingly disorderly and potentially violent world. Abrupt Climate Change 3 =B7 Identify no-regrets strategies such as enhancing capabilities for water management =B7 Rehearse adaptive responses =B7 Explore local implications =B7 Explore geo-engineering options that control the climate. There are some indications today that global warming has reached the threshold where the thermohaline circulation could start to be significantly impacted. These indications include observations documenting that the North Atlantic is increasingly being freshened by melting glaciers, increased precipitation, and fresh water runoff making it substantially less salty over the past 40 years. This report suggests that, because of the potentially dire consequences, the risk of abrupt climate change, although uncertain and quite possibly small, should be elevated beyond a scientific debate to a U.S. national security concern. --- http://www.ems.org/climate/exec_pentagon_climatechange.pdf ------------------------------ From: "Ray" Subject: Re: The REAL Disaster (NDC) Date: 18 Sep 2005 23:39:39 -0700 volkfolk wrote: > So while you may find it offensive, I think it hits on some essential > truths It hits on *some* essential truths, but it basically blames the victims (and the local authorities) while trying to absolve the Bush Administration of their failure to carry out their official duties. Which is to say, it's a highly-biased, ideological screed - yet another example of exploitation of a horrific national tragedy for political gain. And in my book that is offensive. Ray ------------------------------ From: "seraphim" Subject: Wyoming Sex... Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 08:30:51 GMT yet another joke sent to me and well, I felt I just had to share it with ya'll......... Wyoming Sex... Two cowboys from Wyoming were out on the range talking about their favorite sex positions. One said, "I think I enjoy the rodeo position the best." "I don't think I have ever heard of that one," said the other cowboy. "What is it?" "Well, it's where you get your wife down on all fours and you mount her from behind. Then you reach around and cup each one of her breasts in your hands and whisper in her ear, 'Boy, these feel just like your sister's.' Then you try and stay on for 8 seconds." ------------------------------ From: "band beyond description" <123@456.com> Subject: Re: Clinton interviews.. Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 18:50:58 +0900 Clinton doesn't need that little weenie GWB's shadow to stay in the limelight; he's in it regardless by definition as a former (and more importantly, RESPECTED) president. HTH. -- Peace, ~ Steve ------------------------------ From: The Lord of Eltingville Subject: Re: The ultimate hippy vacation! Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 05:51:22 -0400 Joe wrote: > > The Lord of Eltingville wrote: > > > Maybe Joe and his chickie could bid on it and have Cody drive them down > > to Mt Chimichanga. The bus would use a lot less fuel and emit less > > pollution than a jet. Plus...he could smoke himself silly the whole way > > there. > > > What more could a fake hippy want? > > Yo. It's spelled hippie. > > But hey, what's reality have to do with anything? Which reality would that be? Are you referring to the reality that you constantly post about how corporations are evil and that people who drive SUVs are bad because they waste fuel, or do you mean the reality that when you want to go on vacation, you abandon your "ethics" and buy tickets from a corporate-owned airline so you can fly on a jet that burns more fuel than a fleet of SUV-driving soccermoms could ever hope to? > So pop another Prozac, drink another genetically modified beer, and get > back to watching football on TV. Wrong again, Joe. I don't take antidepressants, I don't drink alcohol, and I don't watch pro sports -- but hey, what's reality have to do with anything? ------------------------------ From: "Nick's Picks" Subject: Re: I love a good Franklin's Tower ... Date: 19 Sep 2005 04:31:34 -0700 I dont think any of these are the best, but I like them. 10-1-94 you have to admit, this one is pretty damn tight! 9-10-91 I love Bobby'd MIDI percussion...Branford, Bruce and Jerry are obviously having a good time playing off of each other. It makes for a very fun version. 3-29-95 despite the pathetic band on stage...Jerry seems to muster up some real emotion in his delivery on this version. Both vocally and through his guitar. And the rest of the band seems to melt around him on those stronger parts. The painfully long intro and crowd responce is great. We were all hanging on every note...and some of them were splended. Its the last good version, imo. the AUD sources are very nice. ------------------------------ From: "volkfolk" Subject: Re: The REAL Disaster (NDC) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 07:53:46 -0400 "Richard Morris" wrote in message news:C_2dnShcWPSlQ7DeRVn-pQ@comcast.com... > > "volkfolk" wrote in message > news:TridnXkmB7uKSrDeRVn-qw@comcast.com... > > snip > >> I don't disagree with this premise, but I think most successful people, >> no matter what their race, don't spend a whole lot of time dwelling on >> obstacles or feeling sorry for themselves. While I agree that >> historically Black people's opportunities were limited by their skin >> color, I don't believe that is true today. Economics are the biggest >> factor in anyones success, not race. > > It is not a matter of dwelling on obstacles or feeling sorry for > themselves. It is a matter of fact that they get daily reminders, some > very trivial, some very profound, not to take anything for granted and > assume that they have, "made it". > A couple of examples. > > My colleague that I work with ... B.A. from Cal Berkeley, graduate degree > in education. His wife is a medical doctor. By every stretch of the > imagination, these are successful folks, with a six-figure income. We > were talking about looking for a new car the other day. He mentioned that > when he goes car shopping, he has to wear a shirt and tie, preferably > jacket. Not wise for him to go in shorts and a t shirt like me. Why? > Because car salesman make all kinds of assumptions about him as a black > male that they don't make about me with respect to honesty, ability to > pay, and so forth. A big deal? Not in isolation maybe. But when you > encounter this shit on a regular basis, you understand that there is > something out there that you have to watch out for, and that society might > hold back on you at any time. Unfortunately some (most?) people still base their perceptions and opinions on stereotypes. I have seen it with my own eyes. Prejudices are every where,. and it is very unfortunate, but ANYONE can be successful in this country if they want to work hard. I live one town over from one of the most racially diverse cities in Massachusetts, (Lowell, MA) There are at least 20 distinct ethnic communities. There is a sizable group of Africans within that group (Liberian, Sierra Leone, Kenyan mostly with a few other countris mixed in) The Africans who I know are of the opinion that American blacks spend (waste) a lot of time feeling sorry for themselves and dwelling on how the got screwed by white people. Their opinion is that there is more opportunity here than there is anywhere else in the world, and they don't care about whatever prejudices some people might harbor > Another one: My friend Dr. Tom Williams, PhD in education loves to tell > the story of him driving down Interstate 5 by himself one afternoon. He > needs to pass a slower-moving car so he does, but as he gets up next to > the car he sees that it is being driven by a woman by herself. She looks > to her left as he passes her, and sees him in his car ... and she reaches > over and locks her door! Going 70 miles an hour on the freeway! I have had the same experience that your friend had. (although I was stopped at a traffic light) I have a ponytail and sometimes have a beard. I don't think that I am the least bit intimidating, but obviously this woman thought that I was threatening looking based on my appearence. Many woman who are alone are afraid of men. > I could tell you many stories like this. Most of them sort of trivial ... > some involve people losing their jobs. Some involve people not being able > to get jobs. In every case, it is *not* something that white people > experience regularly, and most simply are not aware that it happens. They > think everyone else experiences the world just like they do, and that > racism passed away in our society decades ago. Racism will never go away. It is part of human nature to be suspicious and afraid of people who are different than they are. It has been happening throughout recorded history. What makes any of us think that it will ever stop being an issue? > Some black folks teach their kids that they have to be "better than" in > order to make it ... That is good advice to give any child of any race. >others teach their kids that the deck is stacked against them in the white >man's world so they just have to get over any way that they can ... That is bad advice IMO, because in this day and age, I don't believe it to be true. Life is never an equal playing field, no matter how much we wish it was. >others teach their kids that in order to make it you have to be successful >in the areas where black folks can compete on equal terms: sports and >entertainment (or the kids soak it up from society). How many white people >feel compelled to give messages like that to their kids in order to help >them to cope with the world? >> If this is going to change, it has to change from within the black >>> community, with the support of white folks. And Cosby's recent >>> experience demonstrates how tough that is going to be. >> >> Absolutely, but unless the Jesse Jackson's and the Louis Farrakan's stop >> playing the race card everytime that something happens to poor Black >> people it won't happen. > > Farrakan I have little use for. Hate isn't the answer, although the > Nation of Islam historically preaches the self-determination that you > desire everyone to practice. Jackson as a younger man worked well with > young people, pushing messages of responsibility, education, > self-determination, and so forth. I think he saw that maybe it wasn't > enough, I don't know. I don't necessarily agree with either of them, but > I am not nearly as afraid of them as I am of Bush. > By the way ... the time to talk to someone about responsibility and > self-determination is generally not right after they have lost everything > that they own! There is never a wrong time to talk to someone about self determination IMO.. Especially since many of these folks are going to have an opportunity to start with a clean slate. One of the things that Bush proposed is an idea that I really like, which is giving many of these folks a plot of land and low interest loan so that they can own their own homes. I think that is one of the best ways to attack poverty. Many of these people lived in ghettos their whole life and never owned anything of any value. Owning their own home will allow them to get a real leg up the economic ladder. YMMV, Scot ------------------------------ ** FOR YOUR REFERENCE ** The service addresses, to which questions about the list itself and requests to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, are as follows: Internet: dead-flames-request@gdead.berkeley.edu Bitnet: dead-flames-request%gdead.berkeley.edu@ucbcmsa Uucp: ...!{ucbvax,uunet}!gdead.berkeley.edu!dead-flames-request You can send mail to the entire list (and rec.music.gdead) via one of these addresses: Internet: dead-flames@gdead.berkeley.edu Bitnet: dead-flames%gdead.berkeley.edu@ucbcmsa Uucp: ...!{ucbvax,uunet}!gdead.berkeley.edu!dead-flames End of Dead-Flames Digest ****************************** .