From helmet@flash.net Sun Jan 24 21:36:54 1999 Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id VAA37696 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 21:36:54 -0800 Received: from echo.flash.net (echo.flash.net [209.30.0.40]) by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.9.2+UW99.01/8.9.2+UW99.01) with ESMTP id VAA08610 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 21:36:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from d (p201.sas3.dialup.bwi1.flash.net [208.194.198.201]) by echo.flash.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA29661 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 23:36:15 -0600 (CST) Reply-To: From: "dan crawford" To: Subject: hole-y crap, bat man! Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 00:37:12 -0500 Message-ID: <000401be4824$c2ebac00$28c6c2d0@d> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 In-Reply-To: <44af9dd6.36aba136@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 ok, i can't hide the truth anymore. hole, being the incredible songwriters they are, wrote helmet's meantime, my bloody valentine's loveless, led zeppelin 4, and disc 2 of the beatle's white album. they're friggin' geniouses. i had an entire post planned and half-written and then i had to go away for the weekend, and i see the audience out there, i guess i'll keep it under my hat. but let's just say this. corgan gets credit for 5-6 songs on live through this, jordan z gets credit for one or two, though i've heard it's as much as four. so...anywhere from 6-10 songs are, AT A MINIMUM, collaborations. who the f**k in the last billion years has "collaborated" with other people on over half their album? the desparate? the running-on-empty? sean "puffy" combs? weird al yankovic? all sad and tragic things, except for the fact, of course, that weird al really IS a genious. so is it an argument over semantics? is it theft? borrowing? free tokens to the subway of rock excess? collaboration? corporate crossover? you can call it what you want to. a turd by any other name would stil smell so... i like music. music is akin to art to me. i like when some performer, some band, some chainsaw ice sculptor, gets jammed in the creation zone...ALONE...and erupts something brilliant like "evil empire", or "ok computer". i'm bored and/or sickened when some band's external credits list starts to read like the library of congress. yeah, sure, it's a product, like all the rest, but at what cost? madonna sells billions of albums. but look at the credits on her albums. she is alone on the writing credits for exactly zero of her songs. she's not a musician, she's a stage manager, an "entertainment engineer". yeesh. no thanks. and when the holers "collaborate" so much, put out an album of songs written in the key of nirvana, they look no different. barring a loss of mental faculties or brazen attack on my virtual person, this is my last hole-ish post. if anyone wants to bicker with me about these points, fine, i'll be glad to, off the list. d -----Original Message----- From: FAILURE-owner@u.washington.edu [mailto:FAILURE-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Levalore@aol.com Sent: Sunday, January 24, 1999 5:40 PM To: FML [failure mailing list] Subject: Re: Pale c/o Tim Knight and the HOLE truth << Anyways, the statement above is just incredibly ridiculous and somewhat insulting to the intelligence of the people that read it. >> It was suposed to be ridiculous.. as are all the statements people are making about other people writing Hole's music. .