From stephenmobrien@juno.com Sun Dec 31 13:37:36 2000 Received: from mxu3.u.washington.edu (mxu3.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.7]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.9.3+UW00.05/8.9.3+UW00.12) with ESMTP id NAA13608 for ; Sun, 31 Dec 2000 13:37:35 -0800 Received: from m6.boston.juno.com (m6.boston.juno.com [63.211.172.69]) by mxu3.u.washington.edu (8.9.3+UW00.02/8.9.3+UW99.09) with ESMTP id NAA08178 for ; Sun, 31 Dec 2000 13:37:34 -0800 Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"//4NVxlwjF4FmpI46sepTZ/m97qdYVIUSngFjzbX7mF55wCQM0eKEwVJnMN26ZFT"> Received: (from stephenmobrien@juno.com) by m6.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id FSM9CGME; Sun, 31 Dec 2000 16:37:17 EST To: classics@u.washington.edu Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 16:34:33 -0500 Subject: What Is the Best Latin Translation of Maximus's Motto ("Strength and Honor")? Message-ID: <20001231.163436.-887649.2.stephenmobrien@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.23 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=--__JNP_000_204e.7f42.4193 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 8-6,7-8,15-16,20-23,27-28,32-33,38-39,46-47,51-62,63-32767 From: "Stephen M. OBrien" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ----__JNP_000_204e.7f42.4193 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Fellow Classicists, As a classicist who is an avid fan of the film *Gladiator* (I've seen it six times), and who admires the U.S. Navy SEALs, I am engaged in the following project, which I hope will promote, not only this awesome flick and this awesome military unit, but also the study of Latin. What I am trying to do is to persuade the SEALs to ask the permission of Russell Crowe and DreamWorks to adopt a Latin translation of Maximus's motto ("Strength and honor") as their own official motto. I first have to confirm that my proposed translation is the best one: *Vires et honestas*. Alternatives which I have tentatively rejected are: *Vires et honos, Vires et virtus, Fortitudo et honestas, Robur et honestas*. I prefer *Vires et honestas* for the following reasons: 1. *Vires* is concrete and physical, just as Maximus, his legionaries, and his brother gladiators themselves were. *Fortitudo* is abstract and philosophical. *Vires* is more suited to the battlefield, whereas *fortitudo* is more suited to the scholar's study. 2. While not exclusively applicable to inanimate objects, *robur*, by reason of its connection to the concept of the hardness of oak wood, is less effective than *vires* for conveying the military qualities of *viri*. 3. *Honestas* is the honor that actually resides within the person honored as an intrinsic attribute, whereas *honos* is the extrinsic honor that is bestowed on you by someone else who merely deems you worthy of it. (I thank Michael Myer of the American Classical League for alerting me to this distinction.) 4. In view of entries in Lewis and Short and Forcellini's *Lexicon Totius Latinitatis*, which both cite, e.g., Pliny 11.19:60: ("velut castratis viribus"), *vires* can be regarded as possessing the added advantage of having a secondary, double-entendre meaning (the male gonads) that would appeal tremendously to a gung-ho, elite military unit like the SEALs. *Vires et honestas* can be translated as--ladies on this list, please forgive the vulgarism!--"Balls and honor." I appeal to all the classicists on this list to comment on both my project and my proposed Latin translation of Maximus's motto. Please post your replies on this list, but please, in addition, e-mail them to me directly. My e-mail address is: stephenmobrien@juno.com. *Gratias maximas vobis ago!* Sincerely, Steve Stephen M. O'Brien 1100 Clove Rd., Apt. 4H Staten Island, NY 10301-3631, U.S.A. (718) 447-7891 ----__JNP_000_204e.7f42.4193 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Fellow Classicists,
 
As a classicist who is an avid fan of the film *Gladiator*=20 (I've seen it six times), and who admires the U.S. Navy SEALs, I = am=20 engaged in the following project, which I hope will promote, not only this= =20 awesome flick and this awesome military unit, but also the study of Latin.&= nbsp;=20 What I am trying to do is to persuade the SEALs to ask the = permission=20 of Russell Crowe and DreamWorks to adopt a Latin translation=20 of Maximus's motto ("Strength and honor") as their own official=20 motto.
 
I first have to confirm that my proposed translation is the best one:= =20 *Vires et honestas*.  Alternatives  which I have=20 tentatively rejected are: *Vires et honos, Vires et virtus, = Fortitudo=20 et honestas, Robur et honestas*.
 
I prefer *Vires et honestas* for the following reasons:
 
1.  *Vires* is concrete and physical, just as=20 Maximus, his legionaries, and his brother gladiators themselves=20 were.  *Fortitudo* is abstract and=20 philosophical.  *Vires* is more suited to the=20 battlefield, whereas *fortitudo* is more suited to the=20 scholar's study.
 
2.  While not exclusively applicable to inanimate objects,=20 *robur*, by reason of its connection to the concept of the=20 hardness of oak wood, is less effective than=20 *vires* for conveying the military qualities of=20 *viri*.
 
3.  *Honestas* is the honor that actually resides within= the=20 person honored as an intrinsic attribute, whereas *honos* is the=20 extrinsic honor that is bestowed on you by someone else who merely deems = you=20 worthy of it.  (I thank Michael Myer of the American Classical = League=20 for alerting me to this distinction.)
 
4.  In view of entries in Lewis and Short and = Forcellini's=20 *Lexicon Totius Latinitatis*, which both cite, e.g., = Pliny=20 11.19:60: ("velut castratis viribus"), *vires* can be=20 regarded as possessing the added advantage of having a secondary,=20 double-entendre meaning (the male gonads) that would appeal = tremendously to=20 a gung-ho, elite military unit like the SEALs.  *Vires et=20 honestas* can be translated as--ladies on this list, = please=20 forgive the vulgarism!--"Balls and honor."
 
I appeal to all the classicists on this list to comment on both = my=20 project and my proposed Latin translation of Maximus's motto.  Please = post=20 your replies on this list, but please, in addition, e-mail them to me=20 directly.  My e-mail address is: stephenmobrien@juno.com.
 
*Gratias maximas vobis ago!*
 
Sincerely,
 
Steve
 

Stephen M. O'Brien
1100 Clove Rd., Apt. 4H
Staten Island, NY= =20 10301-3631, U.S.A.
(718) 447-7891

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