From ehrhardt@xtra.co.nz Sun Apr 9 02:19:16 2000 Received: from mxu4.u.washington.edu (mxu4.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.9.3+UW99.09/8.9.3+UW99.09) with ESMTP id CAA39934 for ; Sun, 9 Apr 2000 02:19:15 -0700 Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.1]) by mxu4.u.washington.edu (8.9.3+UW00.02/8.9.3+UW99.09) with ESMTP id CAA21143 for ; Sun, 9 Apr 2000 02:19:13 -0700 Received: from hpcustomer ([210.55.87.140]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <20000409091910.HIS17687901.mta1-rme@hpcustomer> for ; Sun, 9 Apr 2000 21:19:10 +1200 Message-ID: <015101bfa204$880a2b80$be2737d2@hpcustomer> From: "Ehrhardt" To: References: <01JNZSQISMTU002G66@APSU01.APSU.EDU> Subject: Re: Gaius Gracchus and the denarius Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 21:18:12 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Don't believe it! The only possibly relevant remark I can find in Michael Crawford, Roman Republican Coinage (Cambridge 1974 and reprints - much worse bound than the original: the plates fall out after minimal use), is vol. II page 616, 'One curious law remains to be discussed, which reinforces the general conclusion that alterations in the denominational structure and in the weight or quality of the Republican coinage were probably a matter for legislation. It is the law recorded in one cryptic sentence of Pliny (xxxiii, 46), Livius Drusus in tribunatu plebei octavam partem aeris argento miscuit. Pliny does not distinguish between M. Livius Drusus, Tr. Pl. 122, and M. Livius Drusus, Tr. Pl. 91, but it seems certain that the younger is meant. There is no trace of debasement of the silver coinage after either tribunate and Pliny's record of the law can only be explained on the assumption that it was passed by the younger Livius Drusus in 91 and annulled with the rest of his laws.' There is no entry for 'Gaius Gracchus', or 'Gracchus, Gaius', in Crawford's General Index, or in the index of Kenneth Harl, 'Coinage in the Roman economy', who also discusses debasements. This is, it seems, yet another of the myths that find a place in text-books and are never eradicated. It might be interesting for list members to report those which most annoy or amuse them, and if possible trace them to their origins. Chris. Ehrhardt ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2000 7:18 AM Subject: Gaius Gracchus and the denarius > Did Gaius Gracchus bring about a reduction of the > weight of the denarius in 122 B.C.? > > According to Allen M. Ward, Fritz M. Heichelheim & Cedric A. Yeo, > A History of the Roman People, 3rd ed. (1999), 153, in the context > of reforms carried out by Gaius Gracchus as tribune: > > "Furthermore, in 122 B.C. the weight of the denarius was reduced. > This measure not only meant that in real terms Roman citizens had > to pay less in fixed rents and taxes but also significantly reduced > the tribute of the Roman allies without special legislation." > > There do not seem to be any ancient literary sources for this, > at least I couldn't find anything in A.H.J. Greenidge and A.M. Clay, > Sources for Roman History 133-70 B.C. (2nd ed., rev. by E.W. Gray, > 1960). M. Cary, A History of Rome, 2nd ed., 240, has something > along these lines but less specific: > > "...a further lightening of the _as_ from two ounces to one, > which probably took place about the time of the Gracchi, had > the automatic effect of lowering the qualifications for every > class" [i.e., in the Comitia Centuriata]. > > Cary has a footnote (254 n. 2) about the weight of the denarius > and the gradual reduction of the weight of the _as_ which cites > H. Mattingly and E.S.G. Robinson, Proceedings of the British > Academy, vol. xviii, pp. 45ff. > > Does anyone know if there have been recent studies, post-Cary, of > the numismatic evidence which allows the "about the time of the > Gracchi" to be pinpointed to the year 122? And would a change in > the weight of the _as_ have any effect on the weight or value of > the denarius? I don't see why it need have. > > George Pesely, Austin Peay State University, Clarksville, Tennessee > peselyg@apsu.edu http://www.apsu.edu/peselyg .