From ioniccentre@hol.gr Sun Aug 26 03:19:50 2001 Received: from mxu102.u.washington.edu (mxu102.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.15]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.11.2+UW01.01/8.11.2+UW01.04) with ESMTP id f7QAJa081512 for ; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 03:19:37 -0700 Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) by mxu102.u.washington.edu (8.11.2+UW01.01/8.11.2+UW01.04) with SMTP id f7QAJaT06942 for ; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 03:19:36 -0700 Received: FROM thor.hol.gr BY mxu2.u.washington.edu ; Sun Aug 26 03:19:36 2001 -0700 Received: (qmail 3354 invoked from network); 26 Aug 2001 10:10:16 -0000 Received: from isis.hol.gr (194.30.192.21) by thor.hol.gr with SMTP; 26 Aug 2001 10:10:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 22036 invoked from network); 26 Aug 2001 10:19:16 -0000 Received: from vdp076.ath10.cas.hol.gr (HELO ?195.97.126.77?) (195.97.126.77) by isis.hol.gr with SMTP; 26 Aug 2001 10:19:16 -0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: ioniccentre@mail.hol.gr Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000701c11f51$34447c00$5f00000a@psicorp.com> References: <000701c11f51$34447c00$5f00000a@psicorp.com> Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 13:21:33 +0300 To: classics@u.washington.edu From: Isidoros Subject: Re: Roman Christian Benefactors - with brief discussion of provided bibliography Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Your wishes were heard by the theoi, dear Patrick. Thanks. I did vacate, mostly! and now return about where we had parted. You admitted, in response to the said below, on 7 August: > > (Funny thing is, I had the impression from >> reading your own that you might not had read >> really my original post but were responding to >> issues of your own ... >> Or that you were side-jacking (!) the chosen focus!) > >Yes, I was highjacking your message for my own purposes, responding That's fair and good of you and I think lightens up the situation. I had felt compelled then to neologize by that "side-jacking (!)", as thought you had not merely high*jacked* my message but had also attempted to *side*track the focus and momentum of my original intent, and at that cavalierly, if not a little brashly. Though, possibly I may be wrong to readily accept acknowledgement of your high act of piracy; for you seem rather to persist in muddling up waters that should in any case be clear enough to show what's the landscape through which they are running. >in a way I hoped would be helpful to several discussions at once. I thought >your comments to Sotiris rather useful, but do think you are giving too much >credit to those Christians who did want to obliterate the Hellenic past, and >too little credit to those Christians who helped to preserve it. No giving no credit nobody. I no banker; seer maybe at times, and at that blind. But, I see, you speak still more like an overseer ... of a magnificent cultural politeia, where, after the willful and repeated destruction of which -- the looting, the breaking, the burning, the cursing, the spitting-- by hordes of an insane admixture of imperial officials and righteous priests-- there come now about the scene few of the destroyers' distant and minor spirit relatives -- half crazed remnants themselves of the original polity-stock who 'd converted under duress and a false promise to becoming the new order's lettered (what else) servants -- and who, while going through the buried and the hidden and the orphaned and the burned, discover and copy/keep whatever parchment or paperoi suits their newfound orthodoxy -- all the while destroying, too, or letting go the whatever other remaining! And we are not talking about "Christians", Patrick; we are talking about "born again" into this brand of Christianity Romans -- vis a vis the monachs who were remnant Hellenes. And so it is them hapless and half crazed, if stumbling fortunate, monachs you are intent on equating with the likes and mights of Roman emperors Constantine, Constantius, Flavius Jovianus, Valens, the Theodosioi, with their state machineries, and then with the Eastern epi-skopoi! Equate, then barter, as if in an act of expiation, two in no way equal in kind or in size, two non comparable, phaenomena. After which one should offer, also, thanks! we are grateful to you! for keeping whatever of the once great wealth you have destroyed of us. Thanks. And here is too the credit Patrick 's granting to you! >Sorry for >the rhetorical pitch of my posting, but you must admit that citing a book >about American slavery on the subject of the transmission of our classical >legacy is a bit much! PTR, I get 'em wherever I can find them. Apology here too accepted. Though I do not know which book on my list you think was about American slavery (tho kind of suspect, and think you mustn't really have read it -- or maybe you were looking at a different biblio list?) should maybe finally understand, it was not really the rhetorical pitch in your posting that thought I as being unbecoming; it was the attempt to take a message intended to throw some naked light on the question of the destruction of the Hellenic literal and cultural tradition -- which I happen to think that most scholars have only a passing sense of the aetiology and extent -- and turn it into a light theoretical commentary on the whys of present text availability, and then footnote it with a book that was designed to historicize the relation between ... scrolls and scrollers! Kyrie Elehson! as one aptly I think uttered the other day on list! or maybe, "Alla logia (gia) na agapiomaste": [let us offer] "other" words that we love(-ing) (one another). Some loving! Whatever happened to truth? > > Umm... Patrick, you meant "Isidoros", right? > >Good point. Sorry about that, I had just read Sotiris's posting of the >Olympic hymn, and must have thought Isidoros and written Sotiris (Sotiris is >a native speaker of English, is he not?). > >> And, no, I won't use this as an auxiliary criterion >> of how carefully you might had read my >> "Roman Christian Benefactors" post, or >> how "poorly" I had read yours ... :) > >Well, that's gentlemanly of you ;-) > >Enjoy your vacation! > >Best, >Patrick Xairetismata! Isidoros and, think might like to pick up yourself some books of the list I offered! .