From rhoskins@home.com Mon Aug 16 05:07:16 1999 Received: from mxu1.u.washington.edu (mxu1.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.9.3+UW99.02/8.9.3+UW99.01) with ESMTP id FAA55174 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 05:07:15 -0700 Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by mxu1.u.washington.edu (8.9.3+UW99.02/8.9.3+UW99.06) with ESMTP id FAA04406 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 05:07:14 -0700 Received: from c501552a ([24.5.121.123]) by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19990816120713.IAQK6201.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@c501552a>; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 05:07:13 -0700 Message-ID: <002a01bee7df$a4a5b8c0$7b790518@olmpi1.wa.home.com> From: "Richard E. Hoskins" To: Cc: "Mike Mohrman" References: <000e01bee7ce$b82eb2e0$7b790518@olmpi1.wa.home.com> <37B82400.F3902DD@mail.idt.net> Subject: Re: WAPHGIS: census data worldwide Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 05:05:33 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 I just checked the url you passed along. Very interesting. Until 2008 what are you doing? Where do you get your denominator data? Do you use your own demographic model? Does NY or NYC provide population data? In WA state the Office of Financial Management may pursue pop data to the census tract level between census years. Currently it is done only to county level. Some initial studies have indicated that some of the commercial data shows growth trends in some areas that the State Demographer finds to be exactly the opposite trend. Richard E. Hoskins rhoskins@home.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Bruce Mesh To: Sent: Monday, August 16, 1999 7:45 AM Subject: Re: WAPHGIS: census data worldwide > Hi Tim and Richard, > > Obtaining reliable small area data between decennial censuses has been a > problem. I have always avoided commercial products that manipulate or "black > box" census data for the very reason that you mention - inadequate documentation > on the methodology and a lack of evidence that their work is accurate. > Fortunately, this situation will change with the new census. > > The American Community Survey or ACS is an evolution of the decennial census > from a once a decade event to a Continuous Measurement (CM) process. This means > we will get updated census data at the census tract and block group level every > year starting some time after 2008. ACS is in fact the long form portion of the > regular census and if all goes as planned, it will replace the long form > questionnaire in the year 2010. As a result, ACS will use the same geography > employed in the 1990 census - block groups, census tracts and up to whole > states. > > For those of us who calculate rates of mortality or morbidity, we will be > getting reliable denominator updates every year. (At least three years of data > must be grouped to get statistical significance.) And the data includes the > wealth of fields found in the STF3 files - population, family composition, > ancestry, education, income, housing, and much more. Census even plans to issue > 5% microdata along with the aggregated tables each year so we can run PUMS > analysis as well. > > I know this won't address Tim's needs in Australia, but I suggest you visit the > Bureau of the Census web site at www.census.gov/cms/www/acs.htm to > investigate the details of this important new method of monitoring national > population. Census has full background and methodology materials at that site. > > Bruce Mesh > Bamaware Corporation > Brooklyn, NY > (718)636-3100 > bamawar@idt.net > > Richard E. Hoskins wrote: > > > I won't touch whomever's flag is (was) on the Canadian Parliament. The 2 $ > > is now a beautiful composite coin with a polar bear on one side and you know > > who on the other. > > > > Public health people in the US can only envy such a census. Is there a web > > site? I found www.statistics.gov.au which looks like the official site for > > census and other things. > > > > In the US, intercensus data - the gov census is every 10 years here - can > > be bought from commercial vendors who use demographic models based on new > > housing permits, telephone surveys, birth & death data, other things I > > guess. I cannot imagine they do not exist, but I am not aware of validation > > studies on these numbers. Would seem an important issue for public health > > but seldom discussed. It is particularly difficult to deal with since you > > have to squeeze the population data vendors pretty hard to reveal just how > > they get their numbers. Academic journals don't push authors too hard about > > where they got their population data. Getting the details are a lost cause > > because commercial population data is used mostly for marketing and site > > location in a GIS. So vendors keep it a big secret. (and its very very > > expensive) It is possible to buy this data at the census block level which > > is just a few households. In the DOH here, we just bought the population > > part and spent a lot. We are able to dispense it to local health departments > > but we can't put it up on a web site for giving to anyone else. The rest of > > the data available (market segmentation data) has food, alcohol, tobacco > > consumption data, etc - would be very useful, but it costs a fortune. But we > > have no idea how good it is. > > > > Of course, health status assessment depends on having a numerator and a > > denominator; in the US, getting either is a challenge. I guess in > > Australia, the nature of your health care system allows better disease and > > condition enumeration? > > > > I teach a GIS and Public Health course at the U of Washington and I have > > always wanted to upgrade my material on the census with some examination of > > census activities outside the US. For that matter, it would be nice to talk > > about how other nations get their numerator too. > > > > Thanks for your contribution, Tim. > > > > Richard Hoskins > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Tim CHURCHES > > To: ; > > > > Sent: Sunday, August 15, 1999 8:25 PM > > Subject: Re: WAPHGIS: only in the USA -Reply > > > .