From jashber@letsgomets.net Sat Dec 30 14:58:49 2000 Received: from mxu3.u.washington.edu (mxu3.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.7]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.9.3+UW00.05/8.9.3+UW00.12) with ESMTP id OAA32454 for ; Sat, 30 Dec 2000 14:58:48 -0800 Received: from c008.sfo.cp.net (c008-h018.c008.sfo.cp.net [209.228.14.207]) by mxu3.u.washington.edu (8.9.3+UW00.02/8.9.3+UW99.09) with SMTP id OAA14503 for ; Sat, 30 Dec 2000 14:58:48 -0800 Received: (cpmta 25549 invoked from network); 30 Dec 2000 14:58:47 -0800 Date: 30 Dec 2000 14:58:47 -0800 Message-ID: <20001230225847.25548.cpmta@c008.sfo.cp.net> X-Sent: 30 Dec 2000 22:58:47 GMT Received: from [205.178.51.67] by mail.letsgomets.net with HTTP; 30 Dec 2000 14:58:47 PST Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 To: classics@u.washington.edu From: Penrod Schofield X-Mailer: Web Mail 3.8.1.2 Subject: Re: What About Latin and the Working Class? On Sat, 30 December 2000, Julilla1@aol.com wrote: > Exactly. It's all well and good for someone from Harvard or Yale to expound > upon the values of Ancient Greek and it's relevance to today's world but I > don't think that they turn around and look at the reality of the community > college student. Latin and Greek and Classics *look* worse than useless to > most people because, in general, when mommy and daddy are working for a > combined income of Fifty thousand a year and they actually have time to take > a well deserved break with their child they aren't lecturing on Homer. They > want something solid for their kids with the surety that what they learn will > help the child do better than they have. Hey, it's like the old days, the > only people who have the luxury of Latin and Greek and Philosophy are those > who aren't busting their asses day in and day out. Those subjects are for > Kennedy's who don't have to work a day in their lives, or Poindexters who > can't do anything more useful for society like fix a car or sell insurance. > All those Classics people get paid to sit around and live in mouldy libraries > because there are very few of them and they don't suck *too* much off the > University system and it looks sophisticated to have a couple....otherwise > they're pretty useless. Classics is where we send the ninny kids who are off > in Cloud Cuckoo land and care about things that no one else gives a good > goddamn about and don't care to know why they should know it. It's about as > useful to the average person as Victorian etiquette about egg spoons or lacy > doilies wrapped round piano legs. > > If you want to boost Latin, at least, link it to higher math scores so that > it looks like it's worth something. Otherwise you're going to have parents > and students who wonder what the hell a dead language is going to do for > their yearly gross income. > > K O'Ceriann The problem of how to promote the Classics is one that is dear to the heart of every true classicist, and I think you have explained the problem well. The question comes down to this: Why should I learn Classics in the first place, and what on earth is it going to do for me to compensate for the lack of financial rewards? To begin with, let's first of all utterly stamp out that detestable myth that the humanities are unemployable. Just because people who have a bachelor's degree in Classics (of whom I will be one, Deo volente, in a year or two) cannot get a job as a CEO as soon as they doff their mortarboards, does not mean they have to put on their overalls. The responsibility of debunking that myth lies primarily on Classics professors and advisors, because they are the ones who are trying to get students into the departments. Unfortunately, I have found that professors and graduate students are poorly equipped to explain to students their usefulness in the commercial world. That is not because of any lack of intelligence on the part of the professors, but simply because they themselves have no experience with the business world. I recall one time I was talking with the major advisor of the Classics department, and I asked him what I could do in the working world with a degree in Classical Languages. He answered, "In the working world? Well, I don't know, I have spent my whole life studying Classics, and I don't have much experience with the working world." Unfortunately, he added as a second thought, "I suppose you could be a museum curator." If advisors tell potential Classics students that they can look forward to the exciting and high-tech career of a museum curator, what will the students think? Luckily, I had already almost made up my mind to major in Classics, so this incredible blunder did n!ot make any impression on me. Perhaps the myth comes from the idea that people have to get a career in something related to their major. That is simply not true. I read in a study somewhere (I forget where) that most college graduates are in fields not directly related to their majors. If you can convince your money-oriented friend of that, step two is to prove why Classics is such a great line of study. This is harder; I myself hardly know why I am studying Classics. I know that it is the foundation of our society and all that, but I don't know how to express it in such a way that would impress someone who looks at the bottom line. If someone could tell me why they think (know) that Classics is the greatest subject, I would appreciate it. --Jashber ------------------------------------------------------- Julian Larrabee Classics Undergraduate UC Berkeley "He increased his pace, and as the car devoured the street and leaped forth on the high road through the open country, he was only conscious that he was Toad once more, Toad at his best and highest, Toad the terror, the traffic-queller, the Lord of the lone trail, before whom all must give way or be smitten into nothingness and everlasting night. He chanted as he flew, and the car responded with sonorous drone; the miles were eaten up under him as he sped he knew not whither, fulfilling his instincts, living his hour, reckless of what might come to him." -- Kenneth Grahame, "The Wind in the Willows" ____________________________________________________________ Let's Go Mets Email - Official Email of the New York Mets Get your free Let's Go Mets Email account http://www.mets.com .