From dlupher@ups.edu Sun Mar 17 12:34:17 2002
Received: from mailscan6.cac.washington.edu (mailscan6.cac.washington.edu [140.142.33.14])
	by lists.u.washington.edu (8.12.1+UW01.12/8.12.1+UW02.01) with SMTP id g2HKYGDN112856
	for <classics@reallists.u.washington.edu>; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 12:34:16 -0800
Received: FROM mxu3.u.washington.edu BY mailscan6.cac.washington.edu ; Sun Mar 17 12:34:15 2002 -0800
Received: from mail.ups.edu (mail.ups.edu [192.124.98.111])
	by mxu3.u.washington.edu (8.12.1+UW01.12/8.12.1+UW02.01) with ESMTP id g2HKYFre017883
	for <classics@u.washington.edu>; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 12:34:15 -0800
Received: from [207.207.116.56] (wyatt1dhcp56.ups.edu [207.207.116.56])
	by mail.ups.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g2HKYE901989
	for <classics@u.washington.edu>; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 12:34:15 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: dlupher@mail.ups.edu
Message-Id: <v04003a02b8baa9ec304e@[207.207.116.56]>
In-Reply-To: <013401c1cdf0$6bf5cac0$5103a5d8@computer>
References: 
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020316192028.00aa1c38@online.emich.edu><12e.e18e55b.29c447e4
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 12:34:15 -0800
To: classics@u.washington.edu
From: David Lupher <dlupher@ups.edu>
Subject: Re: Kott [+ 2 TAN queries]

Diana Wright asks:
>Is there any other kind of kleos?
>[Seriously.]

(Any other kind than *public* kleos, she means.)

Good point.  Well, Thucydides has Perikles say that great glory (doxa)
will accrue to the woman (or just war widow?) whose "kleos" for worth
or blame is the least among men (2.45.2).  True, that just confirms DW's
point about the publicity of kleos (which, by the way, I tend to
associate with "kluw," though I have heard others link it to "kalew"--
perhaps the verbs are in any case related?), but it implies that the
quasi-synonym "doxa," at least, can refer to utterly non-public excellence.

But I've always felt that "Perikles'" words here are meant as a kind
of oxymoronic witticism.

David Lupher
Classics Dept.
Univ. of Puget Sound


.