From elizvand@hotmail.com Thu Oct 10 10:50:26 2002
Received: from mailscan2.cac.washington.edu (mailscan2.cac.washington.edu [140.142.33.16])
	by lists.u.washington.edu (8.12.1+UW01.12/8.12.1+UW02.09) with SMTP id g9AHoKFD168218
	for <classics@reallists.u.washington.edu>; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 10:50:20 -0700
Received: FROM mxu3.u.washington.edu BY mailscan2.cac.washington.edu ; Thu Oct 10 10:50:19 2002 -0700
Received: from hotmail.com (f102.law12.hotmail.com [64.4.19.102])
	by mxu3.u.washington.edu (8.12.1+UW01.12/8.12.1+UW02.09) with ESMTP id g9AHoJMG018095
	for <classics@u.washington.edu>; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 10:50:19 -0700
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Thu, 10 Oct 2002 10:50:19 -0700
Received: from 141.225.225.135 by lw12fd.law12.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP;
	Thu, 10 Oct 2002 17:50:19 GMT
X-Originating-IP: [141.225.225.135]
From: "Elizabeth Vandiver" <elizvand@hotmail.com>
To: classics@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Novisse
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 12:50:19 -0500
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Message-ID: <F1023DrCRNefsmeZTp30001d41a@hotmail.com>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Oct 2002 17:50:19.0485 (UTC) FILETIME=[7FADC0D0:01C27085]

I've always assumed that "nosse" and "cognovi" in Catullus 72.1 and 5 are to 
be read in both "plain" *and* sexual sense. Quinn (the only edition of 
Catullus I have at hand) says on 72.1 *nosse*: "Copley holds that both 
*nosse* and *tenere* in line 2 are phrases which lie wholly in the physical 
sphere, but the parallels quoted by editors for a sexual meaning of nosse 
are all examples of the compound cognoscere." Maddeningly vague, that--I'd 
like to know which "editors," and see *what* parallels they quote.

I wouldn't argue that *nosse* and *cognovi* are "wholly in the physical 
sphere" in c. 72, but I do think that giving them a double sense adds to the 
power of this poem.

Elizabeth Vandiver


>From: Rainer Thiel <thielr@Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>
>Reply-To: classics@u.washington.edu
>To: classics@u.washington.edu
>Subject: Re: Novisse
>Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 17:03:15 +0200
>
>Rainer Thiel wrote:
>
>>That L&S don't cite the Vulgate for this, either, may be due to the fact 
>>that there are earlier (and more "classical") attestations, e.g. in Ov.
>
>FWIW, they also cite Cat. 61, 147 (cf. 187 and Kroll on this v.)
>
>--
>Priv.-Doz. Dr. Rainer Thiel
>FB 10, Klass. Phil. - D-35032 Marburg, Germany (EU)
>thielr@Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE
>http://staff-www.uni-marburg.de/~thielr/




_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

.