From jules2db@cox.net Wed Apr 30 15:24:27 2003 Received: from mxu7.u.washington.edu (mxu7.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.165]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.12.1+UW03.04/8.12.1+UW03.02) with ESMTP id h3UMOQ1M040618 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:24:26 -0700 Received: from fed1mtao04.cox.net (fed1mtao04.cox.net [68.6.19.241]) by mxu7.u.washington.edu (8.12.1+UW03.04/8.12.1+UW03.02) with ESMTP id h3UMOMf7019222 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:24:22 -0700 Received: from juliescomputer ([68.107.63.209]) by fed1mtao04.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with SMTP id <20030430222423.BOKJ23082.fed1mtao04.cox.net@juliescomputer> for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:24:23 -0400 Message-ID: <01ae01c30f68$3c9f63c0$6401a8c0@sd.cox.net> From: "Julie Brennan" To: References: Subject: Re: Not in the latest Explorator/mentivagrans Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:31:26 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Butrica" > This is a good context for pointing out that my proposal was not about how to teach Classics (where there's lots of fun to be had once some fundamentals are mastered) but rather a proposal for a grade-school curriculum, perhaps extending into high school.> The fundamental motivation of many parents participating in alternative education models including homeschooling or combinations of homeschooling with charter classes, etc., that of creating a delight in the activity of learning, of mastering the process of learning, rather than the product of passing tests and massive amounts of work product. I would argue that that fundamentals do not have to be mastered in order for it to be fun, however, in fact, quite the opposite. Children have the incredible luxury of not having time constraints, especially if they are in alternative models. I expose my children, including my 7 y/o and 11 y/o, to calculus and algebra that is over their heads. My 11 y/o is studying college level anatomy materials on his own, and he doesn't get it all, so what. We read Euclid's Book of Elements and delve into commentary of different classicists that developed these ideas, we translate together the myth of Phaethon in Latin (which I translated yesterday for my online class), we see if we can begin to understand one of Archimedes' propositions, and we puzzle through Zeno's paradoxes as a platform for understanding Newton and Leibniz' calculus solutions to the same. We discuss Descartes' philosophy along with his mathematics. We have fun with it, not intending to master it, but stretching ourselves as far as we can go. They can master it later when they have to, and all this "play" will make that process so much easier. There is so much emphasis in elementary and high schools on mastering facts and information to pass a test, rather than learning how to study and learn for personal delight, as well as building a platform for a lifetime of higher learning. I cannot imagine what it would be like to take an 18 y/o out of that environment, and then try to teach them delight in learning things that require really hard work. From that point, it seems to me almost more of a fluke as to whether they can land themselves into an area of study that is so compelling that they can teach themselves the skills they need to pursue it, in a catch up mode. Otherwise it can become another set of years of compulsory test taking required to accomplish some future goal. What a waste of 16 or more years of one's life. That said, while John Stuart Mill says he is not remarkable, I cannot imagine that kind of an educational regimen at that age, unless the child has unusual gifts . . . and yet, it has certainly helped stretch my imagination of what my own kids might be capable of, if challenged, given role modeling and access to the appropriate tools. Julie Brennan San Diego, California .